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Babylonian scriptures please.

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Fester:
Hello all,
 
Frequently I run into these two concepts on this site and forums:

"A woman in Scripture is a symbol for a church."
 
"Babylon is the church."
 
I have searched the site and have not found the scriptural, two witness, rock solid proofs, to back them both up.  They each need at least two I believe. I see these concepts used frequently in the forums and figured that you folks toss them around so much that you would easily be able to provide this for me.  I would like to have these proofs so that when I speak of these things to others, I can back them up.
 
Thanks in advance to all those who reply.
 
Fester
 

mharrell08:

--- Quote from: Fester on January 01, 2009, 11:20:51 AM ---Hello all,
 
Frequently I run into these two concepts on this site and forums:

"A woman in Scripture is a symbol for a church."
 
"Babylon is the church."
 
I have searched the site and have not found the scriptural, two witness, rock solid proofs, to back them both up.  They each need at least two I believe. I see these concepts used frequently in the forums and figured that you folks toss them around so much that you would easily be able to provide this for me.  I would like to have these proofs so that when I speak of these things to others, I can back them up.
 
Thanks in advance to all those who reply.
 
Fester
--- End quote ---


Gal Chapter 4:22-26

22  For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23  But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24  Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25  For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26  But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.


Entire chapter of Ezekiel 23 (but I will post an excerpt)

Ezekial 23

1  The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,

2  Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother:

3  And they committed whoredoms in Egypt; they committed whoredoms in their youth: there were their breasts pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity.

4  And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah.


Entire chapter of Jeremiah 3 (but I will post an excerpt)

Jeremiah 3

6  The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot.

7  And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.

8  And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

9  And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.

10 And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.

11 And the LORD said unto me, The backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.


Entire chapter of Ezekial 16 (but I will post an excerpt from LOF #6)

Throughout chapter 16 [of Ezekial], God likens Jerusalem as a young virgin bride that He takes to Himself:

"Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon you, behold your time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over you, and covered your nakedness: yes, I swore unto you and entered into a covenant with you, saith the Lord God, and YOU BECAME MINE" (Verse 8 ).

"And I put a jewel on your forehead, and earrings in your ears, and a beautiful crown upon your head. Thus were you decked with gold and silver; and your raiment was of fine line, and silk, and broidered work; you didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and you were exceeding beautiful, and you did prosper into a kingdom. And your renown went forth among the heathen for they beauty: for it was PERFECT through my comeliness, which I had put upon you, says the Lord God" (Verses 12-14).

Was Jerusalem thankful to God? Did Jerusalem worship and adore God as a Perfect Husband? No:

"But you did trust in YOUR OWN beauty, and PLAYED THE HARLOT because of your renown and poured out your FORNICATIONS on everyone that passed by … and played the HARLOT … and did commit WHOREDOM with them … Is this of your WHOREDOMS a small matter … And in all your ABOMINATIONS and your WHOREDOMS you have not remembered the days of your youth, when you were naked and bare, and was polluted in your blood. And it came to pass after all your WICKEDNESS (WOE, WOE unto you! Saith the Lord God … opened your feet [spread your legs] to every one that passed by and MULTIPLIED YOUR WHOREDOMS. You have also committed FORNICATION WITH THE EGYPTIANS your neighbours … You have played the WHORE also with the Assyrians … You have moreover multiplied your FORNICATION in the land of Canaan unto Chaldea … How weak is your heart, saith the Lord God, seeing you do all these things, the work of an IMPERIOUS [a female fox, arrogant, malicious] WHORISH WOMAN … as a wife that commits ADULTERY, which takes strangers [heathen religions and gods] instead of her husband [God] … but you give your gifts to ALL WHORES; but you give your gifts [of sexual favors] to ALL YOUR LOVERS, and hire them, that they may come unto you on every side for your WHOREDOM" (Verses 15-32).

God is not pleased with His harlot wife, and pronounces terrible woes upon her:

JERUSALEM’S SPIRITUAL SISTER IS SODOM

"Wherefore, O HARLOT, hear the word of the Lord: Thus saith the Lord God; Because your FILTHLINESS was poured out, and your NAKEDNESS discovered through your WHOREDOMS with your lovers, and with all the IDOLS OF YOUR ABOMINATIONS…"

Etc., etc. (Verses 35-36). But it gets WORSE:

"thou art your mother’s daughter, that LOATHES her husband and her children; and you are the sister of your sisters, which loathed their husbands and their children: your mother was a Hittite, and your father an Amorite. And your elder sister is Samaria, she and her daughters that dwell at your left hand: and your younger sister, that dwells at your right hand, is SODOM and her daughters." (Verse 45-46).


One final excerpt from LOF #6 speaking directly about Babylon with many scriptural witnesses:

Have we forgotten how that later mankind once again regrouped under one central government? There was a time in ancient history when officials gather the educated and scholars from around the world, and once again shared philosophies, religions, laws, sciences, and other academia at a central location which they would then once more take back to their respective countries and share, worldwide? And what was that great nation called? That’s right, BABYLON! But that great Gold-Headed Kingdom also came crashing down under the Medes and the Persians. Well guess what? Babylon is rising once more. This time God calls it:

"MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, MOTHER OF HARLOTS, AND THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" (Rev. 17:5).

Notice that this Great Whore is a "mother of harlots." She is a mother who has harlots for daughters. This is the very same thing that we read in Ezekiel 16: 48,

"As I live, saith the Lord God, Sodom thy sister has not done, she nor her daughters, as you [Jerusalem] has done, YOU [Jerusalem—a MOTHER] and your DAUGHTERS."

Any woman who has "daughters" is of necessity, a "mother."

Now for a real shocker! From where does God call HIS people? The answer shocked me.

"BABYLON THE GREAT is fallen, is fallen… For ALL NATIONS have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication … And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come OUT of her, MY PEOPLE that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues" (Rev. 18:2-4)!

Wow! Can you believe it? God calls HIS PEOPLE, HIS SAINTS, HIS ELECT, HIS CHURCH, OUT OF "MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, MOTHER OF HARLOTS, AND THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH"!! That’s where the Apostles came from, that’s where Paul came from, that’s where the small persecuted church down through the ages came from, that where every believer I know came from, and that’s where I came from. I, in fact, followed and obeyed several of her harlots in the process of coming out of Babylon. I was no better than the worst of sinners. It is only by God’s grace that we are able to escape this system. And God will continue to call His elect out of that very system until He destroys it in His presence.

So clearly, the Mother Whore Jerusalem has HARLOT DAUGHTERS! And of the great religious system spoken of in Revelation 17 we also clearly see that MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, is a Mother Whore of Harlot Daughters! One has to be spiritually blind as a bat to not see that when we compare "Spiritual with spiritual," these two are a "spiritual MATCH!" More proof:

The one True Church of the Living God has a "Father" and a "Mediator—Jesus Christ." But does God’s Church have a "Mother?" Ah, Yes, it surely does:

"For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory [a representation of abstract ideas or principles by characters] for these are the TWO COVENANTS; the one from the mount Sinai, which genders to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar IS [now a metaphor—‘is like, in certain ways’] mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to JERUSALEM which NOW IS [at the time Paul wrote this and continues to this day] and is in BONDAGE with her children. But Jerusalem which is ABOVE ["The HEAVENLY JERUSALEM" Heb. 12:22] is free, which is THE MOTHER OF US ALL" (Gal. 4:22-26).

What amazing Scriptures these are. The New Covenant Church of the Living God has a MOTHER—HEAVENLY JERUSALEM ABOVE. And the giant Old Covenant Whore Church also has a mother—EARTHLY JERUSALEM BELOW. The New is FREE, whereas the Old is in BONDAGE. But how can I say that the Old Covenant Church is "huge?" Aren’t there only a relatively few orthodox Jews around the world who keep the "Old" Covenant? No, there are BILLIONS of people who keep the "Old" Covenant around the world. There are almost no Christians that understand and keep the "New" Covenant. To the world of Christendom, the Old Covenant IS THE NEW COVENANT! The New Covenant is merely keeping the Old Covenant, BETTER! That’s right. To most, the New Covenant consists of keeping the Old Covenant, better. They say that they now keep the Old Covenant "in the spirit." Just how, pray tell, does one keep the "physical" in the "spirit?"

Such a doctrine is utter unscriptural contradictory nonsense. You cannot keep the "physical" in the "spirit." THERE IS NO SPIRIT IN THE PHYSICAL, SO HOW COULD ONE ‘KEEP IT’ IF IT DOESN’T EXIST? We are all born with a physical [carnal] mind. It is possible to keep physical [carnal] laws with a physical carnal mind (Paul did it to near perfection when he was Saul!). But one CANNOT keep God’s spiritual laws with a physical carnal mind!

"Because the carnal [natural physical] mind is enmity [deep seated HATRED] AGAINST God; for it is NOT subject to the [spiritual] law of God, neither indeed can be" (Rom. 8:7).

"For to be carnally minded is DEATH; but to be spiritually minded is LIFE and peace" (Rom. 8:6).

Let’s be sure that we are perfectly clear on these Scriptural facts:

Paul said that there ARE RIGHT NOW, TWO Jerusalem's in existence.

One answers to the New Covenant, which is HEAVENLY JERUSALEM ABOVE.

One answers to the Old Covenant, which is EARTHLY JERUSALEM IN ISRAEL.

If you think that you can spiritually keep the physical laws of Moses, then your mother is the Old Covenant which answers to "Jerusalem which now is—IN BONDAGE."

But if you are keeping God’s spiritual laws through the spirit of God, then your mother is "Heavenly Jerusalem ABOVE which is—FREE."

Of course the fact that Jerusalem is TWICE as wicked and abominable as Sodom does not in any way justify the sins of Sodom. No, God will deal with both Jerusalem and Sodom. And that is the whole point of this discussion. So even though the sins of Jerusalem are twice as abominable as the sins of Sodom, God will, nonetheless, SAVE JERUSALEM! And just when will God save Jerusalem? AT THE SAME TIME THAT HE SAVES SODOM. Yes, Sodom WILL BE SAVED, and she will be saved at the same time that doubly corrupt and abominable Jerusalem will be saved. Now least anyone think that I harbor ill feelings toward Jerusalem for writing these things, let me make it abundantly clear where these things came from. It is GOD, and not I, Who calls Jerusalem, Sodom and Egypt, and not only historically, but prophetically as well.

"When your sisters, SODOM and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then THOU [JERUSALEM] and thy daughters shall return to YOUR former estate" (Verse 55).

"Then you shall remember your ways, and be ashamed, when you shall receive your sisters, your elder [Samaria] and your younger [SODOM]: and I will give them [Samaria and Sodom] unto you for daughters, but not by your covenant. And I will establish my covenant with you; and you shall KNOW [for the first time] that I am the Lord: That you may remember, and be confounded, and never open your mouth any more because of your shame, when I am PACIFIED [make atonement, to pardon, to placate, to cover, to condone] TOWARD THEE [Jerusalem AND her sisters, Samaria and Sodom] for all that you have done, saith the Lord God" (Verses 61-63).

When God purges the hearts and minds of the wicked with His all-consuming spiritual fire, they will be UTTERLY ASHAMED! Notice what God says in Revelation 14:10 regarding anyone who is a part of this one world religious system:

"The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God [seeing that "For ALL nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of HER fornication…" Rev. 18:3], which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented [UTTERLY ASHAMED—spiritual and mental torment] with the fire and brimstone [God DIVINE spiritual fire] in the presence of the holy angels, and in THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB" (Rev. 14:10).

They are going to have to face their sins and wickedness and hypocrisy, NOT in the presence of GOD ALMIGHTY, but in the presence of "the LAMB!" How embarrassing and shameful it will be for all those being purged in the God’s spiritual consuming lake of fire to see and acknowledge their whole life of sin in the very presence of the Lamb of God Who DIED FOR THEM! Every heart in the universe will melt like snow in a furnace when they face the LAMB OF GOD in their judgment!

So, is Sodom right now suffering in some fabled hell fires? NO. Is Jerusalem of old right now suffering in some fabled hell fires? NO. Will Sodom and Jerusalem be saved TOGETHER? YES, in the second resurrection, at the white throne judgment, in the lake of fire. The lake of divine spiritual fire will bring salvation to ALL THE NATIONS! "…but he himself [whomever of the billions of people purged in God’s spiritual fire] shall be SAVED; yet so as BY [God’s spiritual consuming] FIRE"! (I Cor. 3:15).

Remember that there are two administrations of God’s purging fire: The first is on the House of God consisting of those whom God is calling to be overcomers and sons of God. The second will be at the second resurrection and white throne judgment in the lake of God’s divine purging fire. All the children of the bondwoman, the Old Covenant, the Mother Whore with her harlot daughters, will one day be the children of Heavenly Jerusalem Above, which is the MOTHER OF US ALL!

Hope this helps,

Marques

aqrinc:

It sure helps me Marques,

Every time i read these same words clearer understanding of The Scriptures result.

Thanks, george. :)

Kat:

Hi Fester,

Here is a couple of emails to add to what Maques has posted.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6335.0.html ---------

>I do have a question for you about the mystery,
> Babylon the Great, in rev 17:5. When I read further
> down in verse 18, it said that "the woman whom you saw
> is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the
> earth". It doesn't speak as though she was a
> religious system as you've stated. Could you give more
> insight that I may have missed?

Ray's reply:
A "city" in this case is used of a "religion."  See Gal. 4:25-31--Jerusalem in Israel and Jerusalem ABOVE are two women--two RELIGIONS; two CHURCHES.
 

http://bible-truths.com/emails.html#Islamic -------------------

It is interesting that you picked Islam and Judaism to know their fate. I am curios as to why you didn't include Christianity in this list?

The Islamic faith bears no resemblance to the Teaching of Jesus Christ and the Apostles.   There is but ONE NAME under heaven by which men MUST be saved, and that name is Jesus Christ.  All those who reject Jesus Christ, He will reject them. Not for eternity, but in their first life. Islam is decidedly NOT the Faith of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Judaism is a totally corrupted version of the religion of the Old Testament Israelites. The Jews, likewise, as a nation, as a race, and as a religion, TOTALLY reject Jesus Christ as their Saviour. Jesus will, likewise, reject them. Not eternally, but in their first life.

Now then, Pastor, we have a far larger and far greater and far more evil religion extent in the world today that either Islam or Judaism. Gee, who could they be?

"And the woman [a woman is used symbolically to represent a church in Scripture] was clothed with purple and scarlet, and gilded with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand, brimming with ABOMINATIONS and the UNCLEANNESS of the PROSTITUTION of her and the earth. And on her forehead is written a name:

Secret
Babylon the Great
the mother of prostitutes
and the abominations
of the earth"
(Rev. 17:4-5).
Now notice Rev. 18:4,

"And I hear another voice out of heaven, saying, 'Come out of her, My people, lest you should be joint participants of her sins, and lest you should be getting of her calamities, for her sins WERE PILED UP TO HEAVEN, and God remembers her injuries."

Do you see that God plead with "HIS PEOPLE" to come out of her?  What great religious system of this earth is God pleading for His people to COME OUT OF?  Islam?  Judaism?  Hinduism?  Confucianism?   Jehovah's Witnesses?  Mormonism? Hardly.

Notice again,

"Hither! I shall be showing you the sentence of the GREAT PROSTITUTE who is sitting on MANY WATERS [peoples and nations], with whom the KINGS OF THE EARTH [this church is not off in a corner some place, she is consuming the very 'KINGS OF THE EARTH'], commit PROSTITUTION [spiritual idolatry], and those dwelling on the earth [that's a lot of people, Pastor, 'THOSE DWELLING ON THE EARTH'] are made DRUNK [spiritually] with the wine of her PROSTITUTION." (Rev. 17:1-2).

What HUGE religion is blanketing the earth like no other religion in the history of the world? 

What religion teaches the most hideous and damnable false doctrines far worse than an pagan or heathen religion in the history of the world?   

Which religion teaches that Jesus Christ is NOT THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD, THAT HE WILL NOT SAVE SINNERS, THAT HIS MISSION WILL BE A FAILURE AND A SHAME, AND THAT HE WILL, IN FACT, THROW BILLIONS AND BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF MEN AND WOMEN AND BOYS AND GIRLS INTO A HELLHOLE OF FIRE AND BARBECUE MOST OF HUMANITY FOR ALL ETERNITY WITHOUT HOPE OR WITHOUT MERCY???

Now maybe you are beginning to see where God is going to lay much blame for the darkness of spiritual deception covering the world today.

Hope this helps your understanding a little better. 

Thank God there is coming a white throne judgment and lake of purifying FIRE to cleanse the world of all the carnal-minded darkness that mankind has wallowed in for centuries.

May God continue to guide you into His perfect will for your life!

Sincerely,

Ray

martincisneros:
When I read through the book of Revelation, Mystery Babylon seems more like an economic system than a religious one, and Paul did say that it's the love and coveting of money that's the root of all evil.  And religion doesn't seem nearly as drunk with the blood of the saints as economic interests, oppressive jobs (i.e. James chapter 5 about the cries of workers reaching the ears of the Lord of Hosts), stock markets, credit card companies, etc.  All religious institutions are, whether they have a penny or quadrillions of dollars are organized attempts at spreading a paradigm, whether it's Hindu, Christian (or some version of Christianity), Buddhist, etc.  And I'm not denying that there's as much corruption in Churches as there is in the secular market 'cause I've preached to them before, but...

How does it follow that religious mechanisms for spreading a version of anyone's message is the only thing that God would be calling His people out of when the economy, politics, the media, some aspects of the healthcare field, some aspects of manufacturing and farming,(as in the recent scares over lead paint and bad produce,) and entertainment are the things that are twice the sons of Hell as any Church or religious organization has ever been?  Just because Jesus and the Apostles had to butt heads with the religious institutions of their day, does it automatically follow that if there's anything to a futurist view of prophecy that "Mystery Babylon" would automatically be anything approximating religion as we know it today?

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