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GOD CAUSES EVERYTHING

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geokuhns:
Hi everybody.

I’m looking for help on the subject of “God Causes Everything.” Before coming across Ray’s teachings 11 months ago I was taught by the A.E. Knoch group (Jeff Priddy) that God causes everything including the rape and beheading of a little boy. (John Walsh’s son). I had a problem with that. Then I recently heard Ray say on an audio that God does not cause man to sin. James 1:13-15. I was thrilled to hear Ray say that but it is still difficult to connect the dots on this subject. So here are my thoughts and the dots I have connected and if I am wrong please help me to understand this difficult subject.

1) God is the cause of everything that has or will happen in this world.
2) God is responsible for everything that has or will happen in this world and that is why He sent His Son to pay the price for forgiveness of sin.
3) The sinner is accountable for his/her sins but not responsible. God is responsible.
4) Even though God did not directly cause the crime against John Walsh’s son He knew from the beginning (Isa. 46:9, 10) that it would happen (Prov. 16:4) and could have intervened and stopped it if He wanted to.
5) God has caused everything that has or will happen because of the laws He has put into place from the beginning. These laws run the universe and all human reactions.

Comments welcomed.
George

aqrinc:


Hi George Kuhns,

Read this excerpt below or click the link and read the entire transcript; your answers are there and in other studies on the forum.

‘FREE WILL’ IS AN OXYMORON . . . . . . Biblestudy Jan. 2007

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5154.msg40740.html#msg40740

It’s amazing, even when people are educated that this can not exist, like a magician’s trick, they still go out from this Bible study and think some how they do have free will anyway, because it APPEARS that way.  I mean the magician really did pull a rabbit out of a hat, and you know it’s a trick, he showed you how he did it.  But when he does it, it still ‘appears’ like he did something magical and you believe it. 

Now here we get down to an ethical point, that I think is quite worthy. 
Dr. Wegner said, “We worry that explaining evil condones it.  We have to maintain our outrage at Hitler.”
Did you get that?  He said, that if we explain the true cause of evil, people will think we condone it.  We must maintain our outrage at Hitler.

How many emails have I gotten just like that.  ‘Oh your saying, so Hitler is going to be up in heaven with us?’  ‘Oh really, nice Ray, and I suppose Sadam Hussin will be having tea with us and taking the last supper with us.’  You know they get real sarcastic like that.  Why?  Because they want to be better.  They want to be better than Hitler, they want to be able to always think that Hitler made choices to do bad and he’s going to suffer for all eternity for it.  And they say, ‘I on the other hand, I choose Christ and I’m going to be saved.’  So people feel this way. 

I don’t mince words any more.  The reason Christians feel this way is they despise the Word of God.  You may say, ‘well that’s pretty strong, Ray.  Maybe they just are deceived about it or confused.’  No!  Sooner or later people come to the point where they are confronted with the Word of God and they either eaccept it or reject it.  That is a choice, we have that ability.  But it’s based on some cause, what we feel, what we know, what we see, what we hear.  The mind can process data and make a choice.  The Bible doesn’t say you can’t do that.  I’ve never said you can’t do that, and even my cats can do that. 
That is not free moral agency, however. 

Now in James he says if you break any one of the laws or commandments of God, you’re guilty of all.
James 2:10  “For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.”

Now he didn’t say if you steal, you killed somebody.  He didn’t say if you steal you kill, no, he didn’t say that.  He said if you break one your ‘guilty’ of all.  How so? 
He said because you are a ‘law breaker.’  There are laws, and if you break any one, you are a law breaker.  Well what if you break that one, you’re are a law breaker, well what if I break this one, you’re a law breaker, ok.  This is not rocket science. 
God has laws, when you break one, guess what you are?  You’re a law breaker!  It doesn’t matter if you break the first or the second or the forth, you’re a law breaker.  That’s what you are. 

Now, God says He’s no respecter of persons.  So if somebody breaks a big law and somebody breaks a little law, if He can forgive the breaker of the little law, can He forgive the breaker of the big law?  Well this is where it gets kind of fuzzy for some people.  Because a lot of people don’t think they have broke many of the laws. 

You know I have heard ministers tell the audience on international TV, the sins of their youth.  I have never heard one yet say that he likes to suck another man’s body parts, never.  Never have I heard of someone saying that he use to lust after little children.  Never have I heard that, never. 
Here is what I have heard maybe a dozen times, from the top leading evangelist in the world, here are their sins.  ‘Well when I was young, you know 18 or 21, I was a little aggressive.  You know I had a lot of vanity, about wanting to accomplish things.’  So that’s it?  That was your sin?  ‘Yea that was really vanity on my part.’  Wow, that’s not really too much to repent of, is it.  I mean that’s something you could tell the whole world about and not even be embarrassed (chuckle).  You see what I saying?

I’m not saying that every man has homosexual tendencies or every man slapped his mother at some time or every man lusted after a child.  I’m not saying that! 
I just thank God there are certain sins that I just never was tempted to have or partake of.  I’m so thankful for that.  But if you think that I’m so stupid, that I can’t see that under the same circumstances, of whoever you want to take, say Manson, that I can’t see and know and understand in my very heart and being, that if I was born in his family under those conditions and circumstances, I would have been Charles Manson.  This is the thing that people will not come to grips with.  That’s why these people say, ‘Oh yes I was a little aggressive.’ 
That’s what Herbert Armstrong said, that was his sin.  He said his sin was being too enthusiastic to succeed in life.  Oh what a horrible sin that is.  But he didn’t tell us the problem that he had with his daughter, did he.  No, that had to come out later, you see.  And don’t condemn Mr. Armstrong, for that even, other than it is a horrible sin. 
You and I under the same circumstances, would have done the same thing.  Why can’t we see that?

george. :)

Marlene:
Hello, That, explains it well George. My Mother has a hard time with this. I don't like what they do, but I now try and look at maybe what there life as a child was like. I often, wondered if someone is a homosexual because they did not have a good relationship with there father. Same for women. It could not be either way, but now I just let God who knows all judge it. We know that we have man made laws that judge them. If, you murder you may be put to death or life in prison. God warns us about mans judgements. They have laws set up and we obey or we are punished. But, any of us could do anything we are so wicked.

In His Love,
Marlene

smeacham:
My mother became a baptized church-goer several years ago.  I actually get a kick out of telling her that I've broken all ten of the Ten Commandments.  She thinks I'm absolutely crazy, anyway, about everything I believe and do now.  She can't decide if I'm Jewish or Atheist...it just doesn't compute.

1. I've worshiped other gods, both natural and supernatural
2. I've made idols, both in my heart and with consumer goods
3. I've misused God's name, both by abusing it in speech and by imagining Him to be something other than who He really is
4. I've broken the Sabbath, both under the Law and under the Law of the Spirit
5. I've failed to honor my parents (she believes me on this one!)
6. I've killed, by hating others
7. I've committed adultery, by looking more than once
8. I've stolen
9. I've lied
10. I've coveted

Cheers,
Steve

legoman:
Hi,

I have trouble with this too sometimes.

God is operating everything according to his will (Eph 1:11).

God doesn't directly cause or force us to sin - but isn't it fair to say God causes us to sin, at least indirectly?

The direct cause of our sin is our own heart - our thoughts and lusts and desires.

But God designed us to be spiritually weak - he designed us to have those thoughts and lusts and desires.

When you look at the big picture, you have to admit that God intended the world to be exactly the way it is now.  Which means God intended for there to be murders and many other wrongs that would be done, and some of those wrongs would be done to children.  God intended it all!  Its overwhelming, and we can't understand it all, but if God is all-knowing and all-seeing, operating all according to his will, then it must be that way.  And it must be for a good purpose.

The only conclusion that can be made is that God causes sin, along with everything else, for a good purpose.

I don't see how we can say God doesn't cause sin, when we know God causes everything.

Please help me out here if I am way off base.

Kevin

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