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GOD CAUSES EVERYTHING
legoman:
Here is another excerpt from Ray's free will series which is saying the same thing. God is the ultimate cause of all (this would include sin and all the crimes of the earth):
CAN YOU HANDLE THE TRUTH?
Even if we were to accept Mr. Robertson’s theory that God had nothing to do with this Christmas tsunami, we would still be forced to concede that “God allowed it.” That is, in fact, the terminology that is used in most discussions of this subject—Why did God “allow” it? Why does God “allow” this, that, and the other thing?
Allow, allow, allow. That is the mind-set of most discussions whether they are religious or secular—Why did God “allow” it? Surely no one doubts God’s ability to stop any or all such catastrophes if He so desired? A man in an Atlanta Court House murdered three people. Since God obviously did not stop it, why then did God “allow” it? Would you really like to know why God “allowed” those murders and why He allowed the Christmas tsunami?
And not only why did He allow this tsunami, but all tsunamis, and typhoons, and hurricanes, and floods, and tornadoes, and violent thunderstorms, and rock slides and mud slides, and avalanches, and volcanoes, and earthquakes, and forest fires, and droughts, and famines, and diseases, wars and holocausts, and (not just the killing 3 people in Atlanta), but all deaths? Do you really want to know why God “allows” these things? Are you sure you are ready for God’s answer to this most profound mystery in all creation?
I am reminded of the film, “A Few Good Men.” In a dramatic court scene Tom Cruise demands of the witness: “I want the TRUTH!” To which Jack Nicholson shouts back: “You can’t HANDLE the TRUTH!!”
This is what I fear is the situation here. People think they want the truth, but they can’t handle the truth. Very few indeed want the whole Truth: the whole counsel of God. And most of those who have heard it have been highly offended by it. Often they killed the messengers who brought God’s message of Truth. That’s just how offensive the Truth of God is to the carnal mind. I have a drawer full of emails that speak volumes against God’s Truth.
But I know that there are a few chosen of God to whom the Truth is not offensive. For those few I will continue. As Joan Rivers used to say: “Can we talk?” Are your kids in bed? Can we talk? The remainder of this series on free will is not for the immature or faint of heart.
Okay then, back to our question: Why does God “allow” all of the pain, suffering, disasters, and even mass killing of the innocent to happen? Actually, the question is not even a legitimate question because God does not “allow” any of these disasters to happen. Here then is one of the greatest truths in all the world and of all Scripture:
God does not “allow” anything to happen: God is the ultimate CAUSE of all things that happen!
If a person is able to prevent a crime (let’s say without any expense or harm to himself) but doesn’t, he is no better than the one who commits the crime. So now the question is: “Where is Jesus Christ when all such crimes are committed?" Is Jesus no more powerful or responsible than the god Baal?
“About noontime, Elijah began mocking them [the priests of Baal]. You’ll have to shout louder than that; he scoffed, to catch the attention of your god! Perhaps he is talking to someone, or is out sitting on the toilet, or maybe he is away on a trip, or is asleep and needs to be wakened!” (I Kings 18:27, The Living Bible).
No, Jesus does not live far far away on the other side of the universe in a place called heaven. Heaven is not a place; heaven is the realm of spirit. Jesus does not sleep in heaven. Jesus does not live in a physical heaven. Jesus will not live in a physical body full of holes, for the rest of eternity either. It is impossible to even think about these important issues of life with the mentality of Christian doctrines. Jesus Christ is “spirit”: “Now the Lord is that SPIRIT…” (II Cor. 3:17). Make no mistake about it; Jesus Christ is present at every crime scene that ever was or will be.
Jesus is at the scene of every crime in the world, and He is there before the crime actually happens. What would Jesus say to a woman if she were in the presence of some slimeball who is hell-bent on raping her little daughter? We know that Jesus is there, but what if Jesus manifested Himself right there, at the scene? What would Jesus say when the woman would beg Him to stop this slimeball from raping or murdering her daughter?
Surely He would stop the crime, right? Well if that be the case, how come there are so many rapes and murders that have not been prevented by Jesus? Do not all parents (almost all) pray for the safety of their children? So the pat Christian answer is: “Well, we don’t know why, but God allowed it.” God no more allows crimes that harm one or two individuals than he allows tsunamies that harm and hundreds of thousands.
I am well aware of the fact that Jesus does at times intervene and stop some crime or evil from taking place. I am now referring to those times when He does not intervene and stop the crime. Why does He “allow” it?
You say, “Well, nobody knows the answer to that!” Oh but we do know the answer. The Scriptures give us the answer. We don’t want the Scriptural answer. We don’t want the truth. We can’t handle the truth. And woe to the messenger who delivers the truth!
http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: legoman on January 06, 2009, 09:36:05 AM ---I don't see how we can say God doesn't cause sin, when we know God causes everything.
--- End quote ---
Hey Kevin,
I've looked through this thread twice and I didn't see where anyone said that God does not cause sin. I've seen where it was stated mankind is 'accountable' for their sins and God is ultimately responsible, but I didn't see anything contrary to what you stated. I think you've pretty much got it though.
Marques
legoman:
Hi Marques,
Thanks for the clarification. I sometimes wonder if I've got it figured out ;) (and obviously I don't have everything figured out), but at least with the "problem of evil" I think I have a reasonable understanding...
I was responding to the OP where George said:
"Then I recently heard Ray say on an audio that God does not cause man to sin."
I believe Ray was meaning God does not cause man to sin directly. However, God does cause man to sin indirectly: by how he created our desires, by using circumstances, by sending evil spirts, and even using Satan himself.
Its not an easy topic for sure.
--
I discuss this on other boards occasionally and you get some downright nasty responses. Here is a recent response I got:
"What you are saying makes God the author of sin, and that cannot be!"
And this:
"This is a twisted lie straight from hell and I say that with the utmost respect. The respect that won't allow Gods character and nature to be impugned..."
And then this one (in a mocking tone):
"Oh No!
Even 'The Devil Made Me Do It'
Is A Better Lie Than 'See God Made Me So Bad! See, See' "
The funny thing is the last response was a lot closer to the truth than he realized. God did make us this way and the devil does tempt us, but I suppose most people think its only our free will...
Kevin
aqrinc:
Hi Kevin, George kuhns, Marques,
I have listened to the Audio many times and read the transcripts several times also. The understanding
i get is that: God Is Responsible (Creator Lord Of All) we are accountable (sinner carnal subject to sinning).
God does not “allow” anything to happen: God is the ultimate CAUSE of all things that happen!
This is a hard truth to swallow and bitter; but then it is much easier to understand this Scripture:
For the creature [and/or creation itself] was MADE subject to VANITY NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of
Him [that’s God] Who HATH SUBJECTED the same in hope. Because the creature itself also shall
be delivered from the BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we
know that the WHOLE CREATION groans and travails IN PAIN until NOW" (Rom. 8:20-22)!
george. :)
legoman:
Yep, 100% agree aqr.
Kevin
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