> General Discussions
GOD CAUSES EVERYTHING
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: legoman on January 06, 2009, 11:44:37 AM ---Yep, 100% agree aqr.
Kevin
--- End quote ---
Ditto ;)
Marques
geokuhns:
I think we are starting to get to the heart of my original post. I think some misunderstood my post. For example I do believe that mankind does not have free will and I do believe that God is a sovereign God and is the cause of all events in the world - past and future.
I agree with Kevin’s post. He states that God does not cause man to sin directly. I believe that to be true. God has created the human nature and the circumstances that can lead one to commit sin. That is why God is responsible. And as I stated in my original post God created all the laws that govern the operating of the universe and the operating of human nature. Therefore God has known from the beginning of time every human event that would occur because of His wisdom and laws.
Again I repeat the following statements that I believe to be true. If any are not please respond.
1) God is the cause of everything that has or will happen in this world either directly or indirectly.
2) God is responsible for everything that has or will happen in this world and that is why He sent His Son to pay the price for forgiveness of sin.
3) The sinner is accountable for his/her sins but not responsible. God is responsible.
4) Even though God did not directly cause the crime against John Walsh’s son He knew from the beginning (Isa. 46:9, 10) that it would happen (Prov. 16:4) and could have intervened and stopped it if He wanted to.
5) God has caused everything that has or will happen because of the laws He has put into place from the beginning. These laws run the universe and all human reactions and as a result God “Declares the end from the beginning.” Isa. 46:10.
6) Mankind does not have a free will.
7) God is a sovereign God.
8) God will cause the Steelers to win the Super Bowl. ;D
smeacham:
Yes.
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: George Kuhns on January 06, 2009, 11:54:26 AM ---I think we are starting to get to the heart of my original post. I think some misunderstood my post. For example I do believe that mankind does not have free will and I do believe that God is a sovereign God and is the cause of all events in the world - past and future.
I agree with Kevin’s post. He states that God does not cause man to sin directly. I believe that to be true. God has created the human nature and the circumstances that can lead one to commit sin. That is why God is responsible. And as I stated in my original post God created all the laws that govern the operating of the universe and the operating of human nature. Therefore God has known from the beginning of time every human event that would occur because of His wisdom and laws.
Again I repeat the following statements that I believe to be true. If any are not please respond.
1) God is the cause of everything that has or will happen in this world either directly or indirectly.
2) God is responsible for everything that has or will happen in this world and that is why He sent His Son to pay the price for forgiveness of sin.
3) The sinner is accountable for his/her sins but not responsible. God is responsible.
4) Even though God did not directly cause the crime against John Walsh’s son He knew from the beginning (Isa. 46:9, 10) that it would happen (Prov. 16:4) and could have intervened and stopped it if He wanted to.
5) God has caused everything that has or will happen because of the laws He has put into place from the beginning. These laws run the universe and all human reactions and as a result God “Declares the end from the beginning.” Isa. 46:10.
6) Mankind does not have a free will.
7) God is a sovereign God.
8) God will cause the Steelers to win the Super Bowl. ;D
--- End quote ---
#4 is off-base...God causes all things...check out Ray's paper that Kevin comments from; Ray goes into much more detail regarding this. Also, the Lake of Fire series on free-will (4 papers total) go into great detail too. Saying 'directly' makes no difference as God is the cause of all. "...him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will" [Eph 1:11]. To say that God does not 'directly' cause evil & sin is the same as saying it happens by chance. Though we choose to sin because of our carnal nature, we didn't create our carnal nature or have a choice in the matter. God 'caused' all to have this carnal nature in order to have mercy on us all. "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all." [Rom 11:32]
Just a heads up for whoever this may help: Even though Ray has papers and bible studies that have one title and are about that one subject; Ray touches on a number of other subjects throughout. For short example, his paper titled 'Fool, Hypocrites, Snakes' is about how Jesus spoke and taught in his earthly ministry...but later in the paper, you'll find a section about tithing. Even though Ray has a tithing paper, he will touch on other subjects as well in similar fashion.
Thanks,
Marques
P.S. And no, the Steelers will not win the Superbowl...God has 'caused' them to win enough as it is... :D
legoman:
Hi Marques,
Yes I think using the words "directly" or "indirectly" is just semantics, and ultimately God "directly" causes everything (as has been repeated throughout this thread).
As you suggest, God "directly" caused us to have our sinful carnal nature so he could "indirectly" cause us to sin.
Stating it like that makes it sound like God didn't know what would happen. "Hm, maybe I'll give the humans a sinful nature and see if they don't sin..." LOL not likely. God directly created us the way he wanted to so that we would do exactly what he wanted us to do.
Its all of God regardless if you think God calls the shots "directly" or "indirectly". Just like the lying spirits God sent out... God sent them out to do what he wanted done, not just so God could "wash his hands" of the matter of evil.
I think we just use the words "directly" & "indirectly" to help our finite human minds understand, and to help sanitize our image of God a bit.
Kevin
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