2012

[MSenter]

I have viewed all your intelligent remarks about the topic of December 21, 2012, and I dont mind telling you all that even though it MIGHT be FALSE or MIGHT be TRUE, it is still a subject WORTH, again, WORTH researching and discussing dont YA THINK??? Scientists more and more are studying this and dont you all think that NOW, science just MIGHT have a small say so in this FIELD? IGNORANT and just down right RUDE is what some of you have been on this site. Maybe it IS like the days of NOAH after all!!!! MARK!

[musicman]

Mark, so let's discuss it.  What is there scientific about this date that is totally out of the ordinary?  What scripture points to this date?

[smeacham]

Genesis 8:22 - While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

Romans 13:1 - Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Dan 4:17 - This matter [is] by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

These scriptures offer me assurances about things like 2012.  Whatever and whenever things go from bad to worse, we won't be in an uninhabitable planet, and we should obey the authorities no matter how bad (base) they are, because God chose them.  I can go with that flow, knowing that God is in control.

[Craig]

Mark is an agent of the empire.......Darth Senter

IGNORANT

I ain't no runt, I'm a Wookiee.  Just ask my wife, I'm big and scratch fleas and grunt most of the time
Craig

[eggi]

I guess you are referring to the infamous Maya calendar? It ends in 2012 and SO WHAT?? As I've been saying to some of my friends who have asked me about what I think about this: I had a calendar once which ended on December 31st 2007, but the world DID NOT end on that date! What kind of nonsense is this?? When you refer to 'the days of Noah' are you suggesting that there will be a local flood again?

[lilitalienboi16]

The mayan calender ending on the year 2012 has nothing to do with any revalation or the end of the world. Most historians and scientist believe the calender ended, because the civilization abruptly came to an end. With no mayans around, they were no longer able to continue their observations of the stars [astroleogy] and continue their calender.

Nothing supernatural about that. Just a tragic end to a civilization that was booming.

God be with you,

Alex

[lilitalienboi16]

I have viewed all your intelligent remarks about the topic of December 21, 2012, and I dont mind telling you all that even though it MIGHT be FALSE or MIGHT be TRUE, it is still a subject WORTH, again, WORTH researching and discussing dont YA THINK??? Scientists more and more are studying this and dont you all think that NOW, science just MIGHT have a small say so in this FIELD? IGNORANT and just down right RUDE is what some of you have been on this site. Maybe it IS like the days of NOAH after all!!!! MARK!

Sorry i misread your post. My apologies =]

[Ricky]

Hi, I have read all that I can about this date, Dec. 21,2012. How is it possible for the Mayan people to know we would have a month called December, or a year 2012, I thought God was the only one that could read the future. How could they pick a date 1,000`s of years in the future and just happeneds to be 3 years from now in a time where and when this world has weapons that can make the Mayan date be more real than false.
                  Ricky

[hillsbororiver]

Perhaps one reason these types of topics spiral down into carnal emotions is because they are in direct conflict with the Words of our Lord and Master.

Matt 6:34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Also;

James 4:14 Yet you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. You are just a vapor that appears for a little while and then vanishes away.

James 4:15 Instead, you ought to say, "If the Lord wills, we will live and also do this or that."

Peace (in His Word),

Joe

[eggi]

So true Joe! So true...

God bless you,
Eirik

[OBrenda]

I do find these things interesting, So I'm fascinated to learn about these ancient civilizations that seemed to understand the movement of stars beyond what we know today.  Like the Sumerians that knew about the 10Th planet, that we just discovered...

However at the Dec 21, 2012 date....the scripture that keeps shouting to me is No one knows the day or the hour, not even Jesus....only the Father knows ! ( I also have the horrific pictures of the Mayan practices from the movie "apocolypco") So do I place any faith in the date to be fearful of?  Not really     

And the most bothersome thing about Nostradamus is he states that these things in the future can be avoided and changed....as Ray would say.....Oh Really? 

Can't think of a Person or Group that I know of that can surplant the will and plan of God.
Peace,
Brenda

[Longhorn]

I guess you are referring to the infamous Maya calendar? It ends in 2012 and SO WHAT?? As I've been saying to some of my friends who have asked me about what I think about this: I had a calendar once which ended on December 31st 2007, but the world DID NOT end on that date! What kind of nonsense is this?? When you refer to 'the days of Noah' are you suggesting that there will be a local flood again?

The calendar on my bowels ran ( gushed ) out on Jan 2, 8:06 am.  Don't know much about the " Days of Noah ". or the Maya daily tribune day counter, but if old Longhorn don't get his toilet unstopped pretty soon....  Dang right there is going to be a flood again... anybody got a plunger.  Or a putty knife... Might need a brissle tooth comb, A 8fl oz bottle of Hawaiian Tropic Dark Tanning lotion with sunscreen, and a dip net........ Always gotta prepare for the worst.... Hum...  Im sitting while I type this..  Oh my....ohoooo ... Hope that was a poot.

Lighten up people....


Longhorn


Pretty sure my God is in CONTROL.

[Linny]

I'm with Joe and Brenda. Scripture is clear about this.

I don't know of any reason to debate beliefs that do not come from Scripture.
I have more than enough to learn from studying God's Word and not nearly enough time as it is.  

[fox]

The following is said with all meekness and a grin on my face

"I don't know of any reason to debate beliefs that do not come from Scripture."

Please tell me if I am wrong about this but since this is "Off Topic Discussions" is it not OK
to discuss things which do not appear in scripture? Ray used many sources of information
in the Fall 2008 conference and at other times also. I have never seen a discussion of ice
cores in scripture.

"How is it possible for the Mayan people to know we would have a month called December,
or a year 2012"

The Mayan calender was translated to match our modern calender just like the bible has
been translated into different languages than the original.

Joe I think I understand this:

     "Matt 6:34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself."

to mean that we are not to engage in excessive worry about things that we cannot control but
that God DOES control. BUT we all DO have to make certain preparations for our future. If we
need not do anything about future needs there would be no need in any of us having jobs or
sending our children (or ourselves) to school. And if a great tidal wave is heading right toward
someone only a person that was a little daft would just stand there and make no effort to get
out of the way of the wave.

Prov.6:6 Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise: 7 Which having no guide,
overseer, or ruler, 8 Provides her meat in the summer, and gathers her food in the harvest.

"2012" is a big subject with lots of silly information circulating but also some interesting data to
be gleaned. Since I majored in geology I have always been fascinated with earth history. For many
years geologists promoted "Uniformitarianism" as the only explanation of what we saw on the
earth. Modern studies are showing that huge catastrophes have befallen the earth and some are not
so far away in the past.

Best Regards,
fox

P.S. Uniformitarianism basically means that the present is the key to the past. So most geologists
      promoted the idea that everything on the earth could be explained by present day processes
      taking place over multiple millions of years of time. Undeniably time and normal processes can
      have a profound effect BUT major catastrophes have also occurred.

[Ricky]

Wow, biblical bugs teaching humans beings the ropes. Proof we have a very humorous God.
May God bug you all.            Ricky

[cjwood]

I guess you are referring to the infamous Maya calendar? It ends in 2012 and SO WHAT?? As I've been saying to some of my friends who have asked me about what I think about this: I had a calendar once which ended on December 31st 2007, but the world DID NOT end on that date! What kind of nonsense is this?? When you refer to 'the days of Noah' are you suggesting that there will be a local flood again?

The calendar on my bowels ran ( gushed ) out on Jan 2, 8:06 am.  Don't know much about the " Days of Noah ". or the Maya daily tribune day counter, but if old Longhorn don't get his toilet unstopped pretty soon....  Dang right there is going to be a flood again... anybody got a plunger.  Or a putty knife... Might need a brissle tooth comb, A 8fl oz bottle of Hawaiian Tropic Dark Tanning lotion with sunscreen, and a dip net........ Always gotta prepare for the worst.... Hum...  Im sitting while I type this..  Oh my....ohoooo ... Hope that was a poot.

Lighten up people....


Longhorn


Pretty sure my God is in CONTROL.

oh my longhorn. if you get any funnier we are going to have to send you to the funny farm. hey, wait, you are already on a funny farm. you can poot or you can toot or you can do it in your boot, just don't stop with the funny cahoots.   

claudia

p.s. i can't imagine why your ex-wife would have ever left someone as lovely as you. you've got a heart of gold.

[kweli]

Luke 21
26 Men's hearts will fail them for fear and for looking upon those things which are coming on the earth; for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up and lift up your heads, for your redemption draweth nigh."

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."

2 Peter 3
10 But the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat. The earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy manner of living and godliness,
12 looking for and hastening unto the coming of the Day of God, wherein the heavens, being on fire, shall be dissolved and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Therefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation, even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given unto him, hath written unto you,
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things. Therein are some things hard to understand, which those who are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing that ye know these things beforehand, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.

James 4:15 Instead, you ought to say, "If the Lord wills, we will live and also do this or that."

Hebrews 11
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

7 By faith Noah, being warned by God of things not yet seen, moved with fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his house, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should later receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

32 And what shall I say more? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and of Barak and of Samson and of Jephthah, of David also and Samuel and of the prophets,

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded by them and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they are seeking a fatherland.
15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He hath prepared for them a City

6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him. For he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

[hillsbororiver]

The following is said with all meekness and a grin on my face

"I don't know of any reason to debate beliefs that do not come from Scripture."

Please tell me if I am wrong about this but since this is "Off Topic Discussions" is it not OK
to discuss things which do not appear in scripture? Ray used many sources of information
in the Fall 2008 conference and at other times also. I have never seen a discussion of ice
cores in scripture.

"How is it possible for the Mayan people to know we would have a month called December,
or a year 2012"

The Mayan calender was translated to match our modern calender just like the bible has
been translated into different languages than the original.

Joe I think I understand this:

     "Matt 6:34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself."

to mean that we are not to engage in excessive worry about things that we cannot control but
that God DOES control. BUT we all DO have to make certain preparations for our future. If we
need not do anything about future needs there would be no need in any of us having jobs or
sending our children (or ourselves) to school. And if a great tidal wave is heading right toward
someone only a person that was a little daft would just stand there and make no effort to get
out of the way of the wave.

Prov.6:6 Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise: 7 Which having no guide,
overseer, or ruler, 8 Provides her meat in the summer, and gathers her food in the harvest.

"2012" is a big subject with lots of silly information circulating but also some interesting data to
be gleaned. Since I majored in geology I have always been fascinated with earth history. For many
years geologists promoted "Uniformitarianism" as the only explanation of what we saw on the
earth. Modern studies are showing that huge catastrophes have befell the earth and some are not
so far away in the past.

Best Regards,
fox

P.S. Uniformitarianism basically means that the present is the key to the past. So most geologists
      promoted the idea that everything on the earth could be explained by present day processes
      taking place over multiple millions of years of time. Undeniably time and normal processes can
      have a profound effect BUT major catastrophes have also occurred.

Hi fox,

You make some very valid points and I must say I have zero problem with virtually any topic that may be presented if only folks would not take ownership of the matter and make it personal. It is just that after being involved with this Forum for almost 4 years and my observations of other Forums in the past I have found that speculative and opinionated posts pertaining to subjects not directly and specifically covered by scripture tend to bring out carnal emotions that feed the beast within with new life.

2Co 12:20  For I fear, lest when I come, I shall not find you such as I would and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults:

Jas 4:1  From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?

As far as planning and preparing for the future by being careful with our income as we provide for our families there are many scriptures that will testify to the wisdom of this just as there are many scriptures that tell us not to agonize over things we cannot control. There is a certain balance to strive for as we reach for our spiritual prize;

1Co 9:25  And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

Thanks for your comments, they are greatly appreciated.

Peace,

Joe

P.S. Thank you Eirik and Linny! 

[Linny]

Fox,
Let me clarify as I don't believe you took my comment the way I meant it and I want to be more clear.

I didn't mean to imply we shouldn't or couldn't discuss off topic things. I enjoy very much our off topic discussions.
My point was simply that to debate pagan rooted beliefs was not something I personally had time for.
There are MANY things in life that may not be addressed directly in scripture, but I don't think there is anything we discuss that we can't find a Scripture to help us find the truth about it.
That is why I think the Scriptures used by Joe and Brenda DID address the topic here.
It always seems that when we get into this kind of topic, people get a bit sensitive and things can get charged.
I like to remain calm and happy as I also enjoy grinning...


Blessings, Lin

[Ninny]

Amen, Lin!

Kathy