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Author Topic: Does faith grow?  (Read 3501 times)

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CEO

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Does faith grow?
« on: January 10, 2009, 12:44:22 PM »

Faith question

Does our individual faith grow?
Eph 2:8 Faith comes from  God.  God gives a measure of faith to each called.  Rom 12:3.  There are different degrees or amounts of faith-some have little faith Mt 8:26, others are full of faith Acts 6:5.

Paul exhorted the church at Corinth  2 Cor 10:15 and Thessalonica 1 Thess 3:10 to increase in faith.  Does that mean more entering the assembly or more faith per person?

When the disciples were rebuked they asked Jesus to increase their faith,  He changed the subject. Luke 17:5

Intrinsically I assume individual faith grows as our journey progresses.  It starts as a seed and grows into a big plant.  BUT I am having difficulty finding scripture to back this belief.

Does individual faith grow?  Scripture?

Ask seeknock
Charles O
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CEO

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Re: Does faith grow?
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2009, 02:03:14 PM »

Rodger

Good point. 

What I mean is can we make our faith grow?  God gives each a measure, if I want more faith will God increase the measure for me, or is it a set amount?

Charles
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Kat

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Re: Does faith grow?
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2009, 02:15:04 PM »


Hi Charles,

Here are a few emails that may help with your question.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1710.0.html ---------

I would love to write a paper on "faith," but at present I am engrossed in several other projects. Let me "bottom line" it for you in a few statements.

Faith is the assurance that God's Word is Truth and that God will do all that He has promised.  This assurance (faith) is a GIFT of God and cannot be obtained by any human endeavor (Eph. 2:8-9).  Reading and hearing the Scriptures can increase your faith, BUT ONLY BECAUSE GOD SUPERNATURALLY GIVES YOU THAT FAITH AND ASSURANCE, as you read and hear.  Through faith you will both know God's will and live God's will.  You must go to God for faith--there is no other source of true spiritual faith and assurance of God's trustworthiness.


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3037.0.html -----

Dear Littlebee: You remind me of the man in Mar 9:24  who said:  "And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine UNBELIEF."  We all are lacking in faith.  Rom. 10:17 says, "Now faith comes from hearing, and hearing by THE WORD OF GOD."  So keep in God's Word. Read and study it daily. But always remember that the faith you will receive is always "A GIFT FROM GOD" (Eph. 2:8-10).
 

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=3096.msg23129#msg23129 ---

ABSOLUTELY, there are things you "must do," Roy, but don't think for I second that it is YOU who are going to ORIGINATE all of that "doing."  Yes, we MUST live by faith and not sight as Paul admonishes us, but how do we do that, where does that faith come from, etc., etc., etc?

    It is ALL OF GOD.  Faith to believe God, to believe in God, to believe His Word, must come FROM GOD (Eph. 2:08).  It is a GIFT from God.  We don't choose Christ, but rather He chooses us (John 15:16), and we do not come to Christ, but rather the Father drags us (John 6:44).  And we do not produce spiritual fruit. Our spiritual fruit comes from another source than ourselves, it is the "fruit OF THE SPIRIT," that's the source.

    So, is there something you can or must do now, or "next" as you say in order to ensure your calling and salvation, that you can or must do independent of God?  No, of course not. It is all of God. All that you either do or don't do is based on the foreknowledge of God's sovereignty. God will make you sweat bullets before He is done with you, and you will think many times that if YOU don't come up with a solution, you will utterly fail, but in the final analysis, it will be God Who provided the solution THROUGH your bullet sweating.

    Don't become discouraged in well-doing, for God will have the victory in you eventually.

    God be with you,

    Ray

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hillsbororiver

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Re: Does faith grow?
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2009, 02:44:38 PM »

Rodger

Good point. 

What I mean is can we make our faith grow?  God gives each a measure, if I want more faith will God increase the measure for me, or is it a set amount?

Charles

Great answers from Rodger & Kat, I will add just a bit;

It seems you have something in common with the apostles Charles!


Luk 17:5  And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.

Then the Lord proceeds to give the parable of the mustard seed.....

A little from Paul & Peter;

Eph 4:14  That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
 
Eph 4:15  But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
 
2Pe 1:2  Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord,

1Pe 2:2  As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

Peace,

Joe
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Does faith grow?
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2009, 09:35:19 PM »

Rom 1:17 ISV.  For in it (the Gospel) God's righteousness is being revealed, from faith to faith, according as it is written, "The righteous will live by faith."

It's a great question, Charles.  I think I smell either synapses firing or grass burning.   :)  God bless you.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

CEO

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Re: Does faith grow?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2009, 05:57:07 PM »

Joe and Kathy and Dave adn Rodger

Hi.  I believe the scriptures we have referenced do indeed prove faith grows.  I also believe it can recede.  Knowledge and faith are so intertwined.  As we continue to discover the pearls in scripture (knowledge) our faith is more Rock solid-the more we know the more faithful we are that  the rest of the word is absolutely true.  I know I believe (have faith) greater than ever before.

One more point-its just how my mind works-the greater our knowledge the greater our faith, until we have complete knowledge, then we don't need faith!  But who says we will ever have complete knowledge?...of the increase of His kingdom there shall be no end-we can grow in the faith forever?!

Sometimes I get excited about what  is in front of us.  My thoughts are flying with the exhilation of US being shown things that are now unseen but will be clearly understood (and enjoyed) after our resurrection.

Aint God great.

Askseeknock
CEO
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judith collier

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Re: Does faith grow?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2009, 06:38:09 PM »

I was always, thanks be to God, a person of faith until I would go through a trial and I had to learn patience and trust which was hard for me as I did not know much.  I still believed, but what? My rebellion was strong and I had trouble turning things over to God but I studied and prayed and nourished this faith I was given. And there were times all I could do was say to myself "GOD is good" "God is good" Now at this time looking back I see God was working in me continuously giving me the grace of perserverance. This walk with God is not what I expected but my faith is "stronger" and "sure" and I know now what I believe. And I would not trade my experience with God for anything because my confidence in Him is like nothing else. Judy
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chuckt

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Re: Does faith grow?
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2009, 10:52:11 AM »

Rodger

Good point. 

What I mean is can we make our faith grow?  God gives each a measure, if I want more faith will God increase the measure for me, or is it a set amount?

Charles


i dont think faith ""grows"" but we are told to ADD TO IT!

2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;


 2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;


 2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness LOVE.


 2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make [you that ye shall] neither [be] barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.


 2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.


 2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:


 2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.


Chapter 13
1 If I should be speaking in the languages of men and of the messengers, yet should have no love, I have become resounding copper or a clanging cymbal.
2 And if I should have prophecy and should be perceiving all secrets and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so as to transport mountains, yet have no love, I am nothing.
3 And if ever I should be morselling out all my possessions, and if I should be giving up my body, that I should be boasting, yet may have no love, in nothing do I benefit.
4 Love is patient, is kind. Love is not jealous. Love is not bragging, is not puffed up,
5 is not indecent, is not self-seeking, is not incensed, is not taking account of evil,
6 is not rejoicing in injustice, yet is rejoicing together with the truth,
7 is forgoing all, is believing all, is expecting all, is enduring all.
8 Love is never lapsing: yet, whether prophecies, they will be discarded, or languages, they will cease, or knowledge, it will be discarded.
9 For out of an instalment are we knowing, and out of an instalment are we prophesying.
10 Now whenever maturity may be coming, that which is out of an instalment shall be discarded.
11 When I was a minor, I spoke as a minor, I was disposed as a minor, I took account of things as a minor. Yet when I have become a man, I have discarded that which is a minor's.
12 For at present we are observing by means of a mirror, in an enigma, yet then, face to face. At present I know out of an instalment, yet then I shall recognize according as I am recognized also.
13 Yet now are remaining faith, expectation, love -- these three. Yet the greatest of these is love.


maybe faith gets ""stronger"" or maybe we can say it grows, but faith still is just the beginning aND FAITH ALONE wont save you.


God bless
chuckt



« Last Edit: January 12, 2009, 11:15:33 AM by chuckt »
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chuckt

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Re: Does faith grow?
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2009, 01:15:29 PM »

Quote
I disagree and believe FAITH indeed grows !! and not just say it does but believe FAITH can grow. This increase however comes only from God.

i can agree, but even if our faith """grows""" into something so strong we can move ""mountians"' and have not LOVE we are nothing.

for me ""faith"" is for baby christians on milk, its much needed indeed, im not putting it down. im just saying once certian knowledge comes faith is no longer need and in the end when we stand before Christ SEEING him faith will be no more, but LOVE remains.

faith in what is seen is not faith.

heck i dont even trust my OWN faith, i do however trust 100% in the faith OF Christ. ;)

i guess we can ask, does faith ""grow"" by adding those 7 things TO IT as per peters instructions?

but lets look into your proof texts, shall we?

 
Quote
Corinthians 10:15
not boasting beyond our measure, that is, in other men's labors, but with the hope that as your FAITH GROWS, we will be, within our sphere, enlarged even more by you,


14 (for it is not as though, not reaching on to you, we are overstretching ourselves, for we outstrip others even as far as you in the evangel of Christ),
15 not boasting immeasurably in others' toils, yet having the expectation, your faith growing, to be magnified among you superabundantly,


Is paul talking of individual faith or their FAITH corperatly? you know ""the faith"" the ""christian faith"'

Quote
Jude 1:20
Dear friends, use your most Holy FAITH to GROW. Pray with the Holy Spirit's help.

19 These are those who isolate themselves, soulish, not having the spirit.
20 Now you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith, praying in holy spirit,
21 keep yourselves in the love of God, anticipating the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ for life eonian.


again this seems to indicate the object of faith, not faith itself. its context points to more than individualistic  ""faith""

Quote
Philippians 1:25
Since I am convinced of this, I know that I will continue to live and be with all of you, so you will MATURE in the FAITH and know joy in it.

this seems to go hand in hand with what peter is talking about ADDING to faith and becoming MATURE in need of nothing  :-* notice mature in THE faith

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2 Thessalonians 1:3
Brothers, at all times we are obligated to thank God for you. It is right to do this because your FAITH is GROWING all the time and the love every one of you has for each other is increasing.


 We ought to be thanking God always concerning you, brethren, according as it is meet; seeing that your faith is flourishing and the love of each one of you all for one another is increasing,

how does faith flourish? again i guess one can look at this as individualistic i dont.

Quote
And from the Words of life spoken from Jesus the Christ::

John 11:14-15
14 Then Jesus told them plainly, "Lazarus has died,
15 but I'm glad that I wasn't there so that you can GROW in FAITH. Let's go to Lazarus."

once they SAW that Yeshua could raise the dead seems it would no longer be faith but knowledge, these yet not even being converted.


No biggie may you grow in the faith.

do you see, it seems we can grow in THE faith but do we really need anymore faith once we have been converted??



peace
chuckt
« Last Edit: January 12, 2009, 01:44:11 PM by chuckt »
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Does faith grow?
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2009, 09:45:12 PM »

Were the following Words spoken by Jesus only for His disciples of that day or is our Lord speaking to us all when we let the cares of this world or adversity affect our faith in a negative fashion.
 
Do we ever become anxious and/or irritable when things don't go as we would like? Are we fearful of conditions around us and all the predictions of doom and gloom that seem at times to come from every direction?

Have we ever lost confidence or doubted the Light He has given us when others do not accept what we have been shown?

Have we doubted His love for us when the prayers that originate from our own will  are not answered to our expectations?


Mat 6:30  Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which today is and tomorrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
 
Mat 6:31  Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
 
Mat 8:23  And when he was entered into a ship, his disciples followed him,
 
Mat 8:24  And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was covered with the waves: but he was asleep.
 
Mat 8:25  And his disciples came to him and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish.
 
Mat 8:26  And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.
 
Mat 8:27  But the men marveled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him!

Mat 14:28  And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.
 
Mat 14:29  And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.
 
Mat 14:30  But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.
 
Mat 14:31  And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
 
Mat 14:32  And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased.
 
Mat 14:33  Then they that were in the ship came and worshiped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
 
Mat 16:6  Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
 
Mat 16:7  And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no bread.
 
Mat 16:8  Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?
 
Luk 12:25  And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?

Luk 12:26  If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?

Luk 12:27  Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
 
Luk 12:28  If then God so clothe the grass, which is today in the field and tomorrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?

Our faith is purified and strengthened by the trials He sets before us;
 
Zec 13:9  And I will bring the third part through the fire and will refine them as silver is refined and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

1Pe 1:7  That the trial (a testing) of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Peace,

Joe
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chuckt

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Re: Does faith grow?
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2009, 09:40:12 AM »

Quote
Now i Pray and Hope you do not get upset with me asking you where is your FAITH ??  The reason being you left this fellowship for lack of FAITH and you returned to this fellowship and you left again for lack of FAITH. and you returned and you left again and returned............ so i asked where is YOUR FAITH Chuckt ??

greetings rodger,

i never left, i have always been here, my faith is in the faith of the son of God, YESHUA in his faith and his faith alone. i need no more faith for the faith i have is in him.

my faith is not in forums, nor Ray, (( bless his heart )) nor anyman nor any denomination, my faith is not in UR, UR doesnt save. my faith isnt even in ""christianity""........maybe we are not on the same page as to the definitionof ""faith""

this is a great study i would like to see you all do here, the faith OF Christ, and what that means.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 

even my belief dosent save me me beleiveing in something to save me is ME doing something FOR salvation.

what i beleive and have faith in is something that is ALREADY done. thru the faith OF Christ.

God bless rodger, i surley didnt mean to cause strife, but yes i do mean to stir things up in a good way.


Quote
I am most certain in the wrong to question anyone's faith let alone yours CHUCKT, but before i can even attempt to correspond back and forth with you on a fellowship level of like minds, Chuckt is why i ask where is YOUR FAITH.


it is not me who torments you rodger, and i need not ask you any questions about your faith or who it is in, for i know you are a brother in Christ, but some brothers dont get along and the elder seems to always persecute the younger.

God bless rodger.

chuckt

PS:

Quote
I saw that entrapment and steered far away from it

WRONG! never tried to ""entrap"" and the fact you start the thread out like this tells me again to stay away from posting around you and keep the peace. its just like old times.  :-[ i will just sit back and read and not post, you da man.


bye
chuckt AKA euty.




« Last Edit: January 13, 2009, 10:02:25 AM by chuckt »
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chuckt

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Re: Does faith grow?
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2009, 10:18:20 AM »

Quote
Hebrews 6:1
With this in mind, we should stop going over the elementary truths about Christ and move on to topics for more mature people. We shouldn't repeat the basics about turning away from the useless things we did and the basics about faith in God.

Chapter 6
1 Wherefore, leaving the word dealing with the rudiments of Christ, we should be brought on to maturity, (not again disrupting the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith on God,

like i said ""faith"" is a rudiment.

Quote
PS praise and glory to God for the wonderful works in you Chuckt.  :)

thanks, you too.

chuckt
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Ninny

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Re: Does faith grow?
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2009, 10:28:18 AM »

Rodger & Chuckt,
did you guys just agree on this thing or did you just decide to honor each other's "faith"!  I was getting worried, but I guess I don't understand what you were trying to say, it seemed to me you were BOTH right!  ???
Kathy :)
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chuckt

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Re: Does faith grow?
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2009, 10:44:44 AM »

Rodger & Chuckt,
did you guys just agree on this thing or did you just decide to honor each other's "faith"!  I was getting worried, but I guess I don't understand what you were trying to say, it seemed to me you were BOTH right!  ???
Kathy :)

Greetings.

im fine, and i think me and rodger need to define how we are using faith, i certianly wasnt trying to entrap or ""teach" anyone here.
for me:

i dont need my faith to ""grow"" i know 100%. what has been strengthened in me is my confidence and knowledge of what and WHO my faith is in. i know 100% in the unseen.

AND YES...i too thnk we are both right  :o

God bless
chuckt
« Last Edit: January 13, 2009, 11:33:50 AM by chuckt »
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chuckt

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Re: Does faith grow?
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2009, 03:15:08 PM »

Quote
author=Falconn003 link=topic=9105.msg76367#msg76367 date=1231870157]
;D :D Same Ole' chuckt ....why i love ya bro...ya never change  ;)

hillarious. its quite clear who hasnt changed  ;)

Quote
Oh then i am sorry, see i thought by cancelling your account twice or 3 times, is a form of leaving the forum silly me for thinking because you are into your 3rd forum ID, i never thought you just wanted to change your moniker. :)

i dont think i ever cancelled my account if i did it was only once, and when ever the forum changed i resigned up.

chuckt=Date Registered:  August 31, 2006, 10:04:07 AM

rodger=Date Registered:  March 17, 2006, 02:57:31 PM

3rd forum id? whats this?

 im pretty sure i have always been chuckt or euty. check for me will ya?

i could be wrong here but hey i really dont care, it some how is important to you so be it.

Quote
WOW ........ that was the number one REASON you and i parted ways in likeminds, because you believed not one man ((L. Ray Smith)) had 100% of all the truths, and now your STATING you do...........unbelievable

still up to your old tricks i see, i didnt say i had ALL truth i said i know 100% my faith is in Christ, thats the topic here "faith"" not ""truth"" so yes i see you to have not changed much.....see what i really said and try and follow:

chuckt "i dont need my faith to ""grow"" i know 100%. what has been strengthened in me is my confidence and knowledge of what and WHO my faith is in. i know 100% in the unseen.


Good day rodger. i will end here,  if you need the last word, go for it.
chuckt
« Last Edit: January 13, 2009, 03:21:58 PM by chuckt »
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WhoAmI

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Re: Does faith grow?
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2009, 03:37:35 PM »

Falconn003 your freaky in a cult leader type way. 
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Falconn003

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Re: Does faith grow?
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2009, 03:39:34 PM »

Falconn003 your freaky in a cult leader type way. 

They said that aout Jesus and his deciples aswell.... so no harm done

good day
Rodger
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chuckt

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Re: Does faith grow?
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2009, 03:43:08 PM »


((((((((((chuckt i know 100%.)))))))))))

Good day rodger. i will end here,  if you need the last word, go for it.
chuckt

Sir have you no shame...... or decency..... that is enough chuckt for the sake of the peace in this forum of Fellowship.


shame? decency? dencency would be posting all my words not a snippit:


Quote
you
chuckt i know 100%


the whole of what i said:

chuckt ((((((((("i dont need my faith to ""grow"" i know 100%. what has been strengthened in me is my confidence and knowledge of what and WHO my faith is in. i know 100% in the unseen.)))))))))


i havent changed in the sense i wont let you get away with this crap rodger.

and this time around i came as chuckT because there was another chuck here and again i always resigned up when the forum changed format!



chuckt
« Last Edit: January 13, 2009, 03:47:55 PM by chuckt »
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Craig

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Re: Does faith grow?
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2009, 03:48:51 PM »

O.K gentlemen, that will be the last word.

You can take your differences to PM, email, phone, letter, or to a back ally. I don't care, but that is enough here.

If you would step back a bit, I think you are closer together in your thinking than you care to admit.

Craig
« Last Edit: January 13, 2009, 03:51:35 PM by Craig »
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