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Author Topic: Nashville Conference 2008 . . . . . . . . . Postscript  (Read 6647 times)

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Nashville Conference 2008 . . . . . . . . . Postscript
« on: January 13, 2009, 07:28:17 PM »

Nov. 08 Bible Study - continuation of 2008 Nashville Conference

                            NASHVILLE POSTSCRIPT

It amazes me how close I’m beginning to see what scientists are learning and what the scriptures say. What’s so unfortunate is fundamentalist Christians - orthodox Christians, believe the Bible says something it doesn’t say. So they think that the Bible and science are miles apart in many areas. Then they try to make it fit, because they know, for example, it says this in Romans 1 and it’s very profound statement.

Romans 1:20  Paul says, for the invisible things of Him (that is God) from the creation of the world are clearly seen (Not just seen, clearly seen) being understood by the things that are made. Even His eternal (it should be ‘imperceptible power,’ not eternal. It’s the words imperceptible - not being able to see) power and Godhead (divinity); so that they are without excuse.

So the things that are made, that is the creation itself, points to the imperceptible power and divinity of the creator God. But when orthodox Christians interpret Genesis, for example, as a literal thing and not only literally but incorrectly, they don’t even translate it literally. But they believe God, for example, created the heavens and the earth and all that in them is, in six 24-hour periods. Six 24-hour day periods!  That’s not what the scriptures say.

The word day is yom, spelled y-o-m, like home. Yom is almost never, ever used in the scriptures. You’ll find day like 2000 times, but almost never ever does it mean 24 hours or what some would call a solar day, from sunset to sunset and again sunset to sunset, sunset to sunset. Almost never is it used that way. They think it is, but it’s not.

If they would follow the scriptures closely, they would have avoided this from time memorial. Even in the King James, it’s not hidden. People say, ‘Well, it’s talking about literal days, literal 24 hour days.’ There’s no such thing as a literal 24 hour days.

First of all, you don’t find 24 hour days anywhere in the scriptures. Sometimes there is a period that has reference to 24 hours, but inevitably it will always then say day and night. So you know it’s both periods of time. When it says day, it means day, not night.

“God said let there be light, and there was light” (Gen. 1:3). We’re going to see that’s not the best translation.  It should not be “and there was,” because that gives the indication He said it and there was. That’s not what it says in the Hebrew, He said it and ‘it came to be’ or ‘it did come to be.’ That is the way it should be translated and that’s the way your better translators will have it. The Concordant has it “and coming is it to be so.” It’s not in the indefinite, it’s in the past tense. Either ‘it came to be so’ or ‘it did come to be so.’ Not at that instance though, but it came to be so, a period of time. 

Now, “and God saw the light that it was good and God divided the light from the darkness and God called the light day.[/b]” There it is. Now why don’t they believe it? They would’ve avoided all this stuff that’s been going on for hundreds of years, about were the days literal and was the earth created just 6000 years ago or 4.5 billion years ago, you see.

Gen 1:5  And God called the light day, the darkness He called day? No, because I read that wrong. The darkness He called ‘night.’ Now there are two different things and that’s easy to see. What is the day?  The light is the day. The dark is not the day, the dark is the night.

I titled this talk ‘Nashville Postscript,’ because I had too much material. I was hurting so bad a couple weeks leading up to the Nashville conference that, quite frankly, I just couldn’t get it together, I couldn’t make an outline.  Not only couldn’t I use my hand… you know I had to do everything with one hand and I did quite a lot with just one hand. But I was in such pain I couldn’t think straight, so it was kind of bad, but I made it through. I actually felt somewhat better by the time I got to the conference.

Anyway, I said up there that there are thousands and thousands of proofs that the earth and the universe is old, very old, millions and billions of years old. How many proofs? Thousands and thousands and thousands. Now you have to know what I know from all my research to see that. But you can look at any stone, any mineral, any hill, any stream, any lake, any mountain and you can look at the atmosphere, the stars, the composition of things, whether it be coal or salt and how deep is it and where is it located and you just go on and on and on and on. Every one of those things you can subdivide those in a hundred different directions and every infinitesimal thing you study about every speck of energy, light, force, matter, stones, rock, etc… everything you study points to the fact that they are very, very old.

The other main topic I covered at the conference was “Was Noah’s flood global?” That is did it cover all the land mass of the entire planet? No, it did not. 

Now there were a couple of main points, but I was getting behind. First, I took a thousand pages of notes and I took them down to 200-300 pages and then I sorted among those at the conference to give my talk. So, I was getting behind and I just threw my outline a little bit to the wind and just winged it. Because I wouldn’t have made it through. So there’s a couple of points that are really good points and I thought, well you know, at our next Bible study I’ll just give a study on it. Because I think these points are pretty important.

Now when I was coming to see these things, years ago, one by one, I began to see things in the scriptures that showed me that this idea, that the earth was only 6000 years old when God created it (in six 24-hour periods) was untenable. I’ll show you a couple of them. One is found right here in Genesis.

Gen. 2:5  And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew:  for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was no man to till the ground. 

It says, “no man to till the ground.” So you know how I study the scriptures, I look up the Hebrew and Greek words and so on, and that word “ground” is soil. “There was no man to till the soil.” Now if God had just created the heavens and the earth in the first chapter in six 24-hour days and God rested the seventh day. So He stopped working the seventh, but before He did all this supposedly, we back up and He says, “these are the generations of the heavens and the earth in the day they were created” (Gen. 2:4). 

He says, “there was no man to till the ground” or the soil. So where did the soil come from? It takes soil thousands of years to form, generally. Not that a little soil can‘t be formed in even 100 years, but soil comes from the erosion of mountains primarily and then the re-erosion of valleys and so on.  When you want to wear away a mountain, by snow, wind, sleet, rain, glaciers, and so on, that’s a very slow process. You have to grind all these rocks into powder to make soil.

Something else you need for soil is at least 5-10% of most soil is organic. How do we have dead material down in the soil a couple days after they were first created? I mean are the trees already dying? He made the trees over here on the third day and we got the fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh, so we going back and we’re probably no further here than the sixth day and we have soil? So from the third day to the sixth day, that’s 72 hours. Where did we get soil?

Then I read over here where it says in verse 8.

Gen 2:8  And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden and there He put the man.

Well, that word “planted,” in Hebrew that’s not planted, it’s He ‘sprouted.’ Sprouted or it can mean ‘to bud.’ Now you know when something buds or sprouts out of the ground, it’s not full grown. When an acorn tree sprouts out of the ground, there are no acorns on that tree for another 3-4 years or whatever. When an apple tree sprouts out of the ground, you’re not going eat apples for several years. Years! So what’s going on here?  Then we read in verse 11.

Gen. 2:11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;

What? Gold? How did gold get there? Where does gold come from? Well, you say ‘Well, God created gold.’ Sure He did, but where does it come from? How does He get gold on the earth? By bringing it out of the earth. Gold comes out of volcanoes.

Listen, everything there is on the earth, came out of the earth. Everything! Everything on the earth came out of the earth.

So if we have gold here by the Garden of Eden and this is just seven days or within the first few days of the Sabbath let’s say. So do we have volcanoes erupting everywhere, producing gold in the Garden of Eden? There’s volcanoes erupting producing gold? I don’t think so. Well, where did this gold come from and when did it come? It was probably there for millions of years. I’m just giving you a couple of highlights there are other things too.

Gen. 3:2  And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

What fruit?  What fruit is there in the garden? Go back to verse 9, God just caused the sprouts to come up.  Now the same day there’s fruit on the trees? Well you say, ‘God planted full-grown trees with fruit on them.’ Well, if it didn’t say one way or another, we could assume that He planted full grown trees with fruit on them. But it tells us what He planted, He “sprouted” the trees, they budded. They sprouted out of the ground, little tiny things and it took them years to produce fruit. Years. So how can these creation days be 24 hours?  It’s just not tenable is it? Of course not.

                                    FIRST HUMANS

Now I talked a little, not during the conference so much, but in some of the bull sessions in the evening we had. Where it was said, ‘were Adam and Eve the first humans?’ Well, I said, not necessarily and I gave numerous reasons for that. I thought of another one here just yesterday, so I’ll throw this out just for fun and just to think about. I’m not making some big stand on this.

I used to think where it says God formed man from the dust of the ground (Gen. 2:7), He’s just going back to explain in more detail what He did in chapter 1. But I’m thinking that’s not tenable either. 

So let’s ask ourselves, when God created herbs and things, did He just create one? One piece of moss, one blade of grass? Or did He make grass, a lot of grass and a lot of things. Well let me explain this, because I don’t know if I did this at the conference. Notice where it says in verse 11.

Gen. 1:11  And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass…

“Let the earth bring forth grass,” now that’s an interesting statement. It doesn’t say God created - bara or made - asah, grass. Now to make something out of what already exists is to asah, you make it out of preexisting material. To create, bara in Hebrew, means you bring in something that did not exist before. But how do we get the first plant life on the earth? How did God do it? Does it say God created the trees, God created the grass? No. You can read it with your own eyes. He said, “let the earth bring it forth.” Now can we believe it? Can we believe God made the earth in such a way that the earth could bring it forth, when He commanded it? Yes. Not aside from God, not without God, but at His command. He said “Let the earth bring forth the grass.”

Now notice there’s a progression. Let the earth bring forth and it says “the grass,” that word (grass) I think it is deshe, it just means green... interesting. What do the scientists tell us is the first form of plant life on earth? Single cell microscopic algae, very tiny things that need little or no light. Now we have light, we read light in the above verses. The light does not become clean and clear until the next day, but there was light. Primitive type mosses and algae and things apparently do not require much light. 

But notice a progression, first it says, “brings forth grass (no. 1),” it says grass, but the word just means plant, green plant.

Gen. 1:11  the herb yielding seed (no. 2), and the fruit tree (no. 3) yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

Now what do science finds are the progression of plants? You start with the primitive, they can be somewhat advanced, until you finally have whole trees producing fruit. What is one of the last things in plant life that comes on the scene according to the geological table? It’s a very recent addition… flowers. Flowers are relatively new to plant life in the geological time scale.

So obviously He didn’t make one blade of grass or one piece of algae, there was a multitude. Now notice when we come over to verse 20.

Gen 1:20  And God said, let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creatures, that hath life.
Did He just make one male and one female fish or was there an abundance of them? Then we go on verse 21, “He made the great tanniyn.” Which I believe you know are the dinosaurs, the reptiles.

Then we have the cattle, verse 24.  Did He just make one cow and one bull, is that it? Well, it says He made cattle.

Well then when we come down to verse 26, it says “God said, Let Us make man…” But the Hebrew is ‘humanity.’ “Let us make humanity.” Did He really just make one man and one woman? That’s not what He did with all the other things, did He? Look at it.

Gen. 1:27  Let Us make humanity in Our image after Our likeness, and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle…

Remember, I pointed out it doesn’t say let them have dominion over the great tanniyn, the dinosaurs. Why? Because they were extinct for 50 million years.

“In the image of God created He him.“ That’s what it says, but that’s not in the Hebrew. It just says, “In the image of God created.” That’s all, it doesn’t say “He him.” Concordant puts “created it.” God created it, humanity, it. So it just says “in the image of God created.” He created, but to make the English more understandable, they put in “…created He him.” God created him, but the “him” is not in there. 

“Male and female created.” Now in our translation, it says “male and female He created them.” So it’s pretty difficult to say, ‘well there was one man and one woman.’ He created humanity, He created humanity male and He created humanity female. Humanity, okay. 

Now when we come to Adam and Eve, He gives them a name and we know it’s just one. Are they the first ones though? Maybe not. Because we later have Cain, that says his sentence is too great, wherever I go, they will kill me (Gen. 4:13-14). Who will kill him? Who? There was only Abel and he killed Abel. So if there’s only Adam and Eve and their two sons, Cain and Abel… well Cain killed Abel, so now there’s only one man left, and his mother and father. He says to God, wherever I go, “anyone who finds me will kill me." Who? He killed the only other man alive on earth. Well if we interpret it that way, there are problems. Then Cain took a wife… so there’d be all these other things to contend with and so on. Alright.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 06:01:25 PM by Kat »
Jam 4:14 " whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. What is your life? For ye are a vapor, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away."


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Re: Postscript to Nashville Conference 08
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2009, 07:30:26 PM »

But I’m just showing that right here in the King James, you‘ve got the soil and sprouting and gold. Then He puts Adam in the garden. What pray tell is Adam going to eat? There’s nothing to eat in the garden, because they’re sprouting. There’s got to be trees that have already grown up and are producing fruit. When did He make them? Well, if these periods of creation were millions of years, He made them a long, long time ago. 

Now, were the days of Genesis 1, 24-hour periods or were they long? Well, we learned the definition of ‘day’ being light. It does no good to say, ‘well, but God says in the commandments, six days shall you labor but the seventh day no work shall be done (Exo. 31:15). There’s proof that these days of creation are just like the week.’ Oh really. Did God say in the commandments six days and six nights for 24 hours you shall labor, for six ‘whole’ days? Is that what He said? They’d be pretty tired come the Sabbath, for sure. They did not labor for a 24 hour days. The definition of day in that commandment, the 4th commandment, is not 24 hours. They did not labor for 24 hours a day for six days.

Now we have electricity and so we work second and third shifts, but as a general rule, humanity on the whole earth always rested at night. They work during the day and rested at night, every day. They did not work day and night. A day is the light part, the warm part of the day. That’s the first definition of it from the Hebrew dictionary, the light or the warm part of the day. So they did not work at night. 

Then God said there shall be no work done on the seventh ‘day.’ He didn’t say there shall be no work done on the seventh night. Why? They never worked at night. They didn’t work Monday night, Tuesday night, Wednesday night, Thursday night or Friday night either. Can you see it?  You’ve just got to pay attention to all the words.

Is there a way to prove from Genesis itself, I mean the first chapter, that these days, even the daylight portion, is longer than 12 hours? If the night is 12, then aren’t there 12 hours in the day also? Can we prove that these days are much longer, from the first chapter? Yes, we can. Notice.

Gen 1:14  Then God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;
v. 15  and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth;" and it was so.

First, I need to correct that “it was so” that phrase, those words, those Hebrew letters and even the little poindings (the little dots they call poindings), are identical to that same phrase you find in other places in the Bible. I’m going to give you one, to show you that it does not mean it was immediately done, at that instance.

2 Kings 15:12 This was the Word of the Lord which He spoke unto Jehu saying, your son shall sit on the throne of Israel until the fourth generation, and so it came to pass

Guess what? Letter for letter, poinding by poinding, that is the exact same phrase found where I just read here where it says “and it was so.” That’s not how they translated it over here. How could when God said “it was so,” if they’re going to rule for four generations? That takes four generations of years before it can be so, right? So they translated it properly, “so it came to be so.” It came to be and that’s exactly how it should be consistently translated here in Genesis 2. To give light upon the earth and it came or it did come, either one is acceptable. Either it came to be so or it did come to be so.

So how does that prove the days are long periods of time? We can see from the generations that it can take up to four generations. I can show you places where it takes even longer periods of time. Now, how does this prove that these days were longer than 24 hour periods? Well, let’s go back and read again.

Gen 1:14  Then God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night…

I’ve been telling you so often, I believe the answer to so many things are in the scriptures, we just haven’t seen it yet, but it’s all there. It’s there. You got to read all the words very carefully. There’s so much in there. I don’t believe I’ll ever exhaust the first chapter of Genesis. Because I’m beginning to see how much is there now.  But you can get more technical and there is more and more and more.

v. 14 …And let them (these lights) be for signs and for seasons and for days and for years. (You seeing it?)
v. 15  And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, and it came to be so.

Do you see it?  In other words, when God says “and it came to be so,” it had to come to be so, in these periods. In these periods. Now, the fruit yielding trees did not have to come when He said let the earth bring forth grass. When He said that, it had to start bring forth grass, but the trees with the fruit didn’t have to be there yet. But back to verse 11. 

Gen 1:11  And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth:  and it was so.

Eventually it did come to be so. So by the time we have God creating Adam, He’s budding trees in the Garden, sprouting trees in the Garden, but there were already full grown trees with fruit on them for Adam to eat. Because why? Because He said there should be full-grown trees with fruit on them, and it did come to be so. 

So we come to the fourth day, it says “let these light be for seasons,” is that longer than 12 or 24 hours?  Yes. What about days in the plural, yoms in the plural, is that longer than 12 or 24 hours? Yes. What about years? Are years longer than 12 and 24 hours? Yes. So they were for seasons, days and years, and it came to be so. 

A second witness to it, so that we know for sure, seasons, days (in the plurality) and whole years (we don’t know how many… millions) did come to pass. How do we know absolutely for sure it came to pass? Chapter 2.

Gen 2:1  Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

Before the seventh day, we’ve got to conclude if these were 24-hour days, because then the 7th day would have to be a 24-hour day too. But it’s not, because it hasn’t ended yet. But notice, “the heavens and the earth were finished.” Everything that He said was finished, “and it came to be so.” That was finished. So within the first chapter of Genesis we have absolute proof that days, absolutely meant, seasons, signs and whole years. We’re not told how many, but years, because it was all finished. Everything that it said there was finished. So that’s a pretty powerful proof against these 24-hour day periods.

                             NOAH’S FLOOD WAS NOT GLOBAL

Now we’re going to talk about the flood. Likewise, there are scriptures we don’t have to just go by my notes that I handed out to prove that the flood wasn’t global. We have statements in the scriptures that say Noah’s flood was not global. They say it, yes they do. Now you have to know how to look at it, but that’s what I’m going to show you. It’s in there.

Now a couple little interesting things. These are just some things that I looked up in the last couple of days, although I had my basic outline up for Nashville. According to science the universe started in a beginning. Now that’s significant because 30-40 years ago scientists did not believe the universe had a beginning. The last 20 years or so, now they say it absolutely had a beginning. Of course that’s what Genesis has always said, “In the beginning.” It had a beginning, so they’re catching up with Genesis. It was very infinitely small and then it spread out. They call it the Big Bang, which I’m sure it must have been a big bang. The scriptures say that God stretched out the heavens (Isa. 42:5).  So that’s right in keeping with what scientists are saying.

Jewish cabbalas who studied the scriptures for just countless thousands of hours (they had nothing else to do, I guess), but hundreds or even a thousand years ago, said that the universe started the size of a mustard seed. They said that. Where’d they get that from? They got it from the scriptures and science agrees. 

There was a rapid expansion, and then there was light. Scientist know before the universe reached a certain size and coolness (it was too hot at first), there was no light, but then light could escape. Isn’t that what the scriptures tell us? After He creates the heavens and the earth, spreading them out, then there would eventually be light. “Let there be light.” That is exactly what it says.

Then we have the formation of the stars, the galaxy and our solar system. Then we were told that there was water.

Gen. 1:1  In the beginning. God created the heavens and the earth.
v. 2  And the earth was (or should be ‘was already’ or ‘had become’ or ‘had existed’) without form (tohu - or it should be unformed, not without, everything had form) and void (bohu). And darkness was upon the face of the deep and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

We have water in Genesis 1 and it’s covering the whole earth. Now this is not talking regionally, the whole earth. Because we know there was no land, we have no land until we come to verse 9. So the earth is covered in water. What do the scientist tell us? The earth was covered in water, they tell us the same thing that Genesis tells us. Then there was dry land. Where did the dry land come from? Out of the earth. But it’s covered with water. How does it come out of the earth? Volcanoes. 

The whole earth was hot, molten and eventually there was water. Now it’s cooling, it’s forming a crust, volcanoes are erupting. You’ve all heard of Pangaea, where all those continents were in one location. Well they think there was one before that, called Badenia and it spread out and came back forming Pangaea. Then Pangaea broke up into the basic, somewhat shapes of the major continents and then began to spread around the world by continental drift. How fast did they do it? Very very slowly. Continents move at about the same speed that your fingernails grow. Now that’s pretty slow.

The continents are all moving. Europe and the United States are becoming further apart, at the speed that your fingernails grow. How long did it take to get four or five thousand miles across? Billions and billions of years. But I’m going to show you something from the scriptures, so just follow me here. Do the scriptures allow for the fact that there was one land mass that later became numerous landmasses? Is there anything in the scriptures that suggest such a thing? I found it, I tell you it’s right there, I’ll show you.

So there were plants and God says, “let the dry appear” (Gen. 1:9) and then He says, “let the earth bring forth grass” (Gen. 1:11). Isn’t this what the scientists say? It’s exactly what they say. There was green plant life, then there was a clearing of the atmosphere. 

They say that the formation of the land and all the volcanic activity… all this stuff was a part of the process of forming the atmosphere, so that more complex forms of animal life and so on could live there. 

What do scientists tell us comes next on the scene? Very ancient sea life. These are in the lowest stratas ancient Sea life. What do the scriptures tell us? “God said let the waters bring forth abundantly” (Gen. 1:20).  Where did life start? Little things in the water. Then what came next?  More complex life, amphibians are next, right. What do we have next here? “God created great whales” (Gen. 1:21), but the word is tanniyn.  They’re reptiles, it’s the same word used interchangeably with snakes. Where Moses’ staff turned into a snake, a serpent, in another version it says it turned into a tanniyn. So a tanniyn has got to be in the serpent family. These tanniyn were dinosaurs.

Then on the fifth day we have mammals and cattle and finally humans. What does the geological records show? After the plant life, early sea life, then amphibians, then animals, then cattle, then humans. Exactly like Genesis says, exactly. It’s amazing.
Alright, is it possible that the scriptures tell us that God started the continents with one land mass Pangaea, just like scientists and geologists tell us? Then that broke up and split apart into continents? Is there anything here that suggests that? Let’s read it.

Gen 1:8  And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day (day two or yom two, the second yom).
v. 9  And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so (or and it came to be so).

Remember that’s the way it’s got to be written, “it came to be so.”

Gen 1:10  And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called He Seas: and God saw that it was good.
v. 11  And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
v. 12  And the earth brought forth grass…

Now do you see Pangaea in any place? Nope, read it again, verse 9 “God said, let the waters under heaven be gathered unto one place...” How many places? One. Read on, “…and let the dry (land is in italics, it‘s “let the dry” it means dry land, but the Hebrew is only dry) land appear and it came to be so.” It came to be so, now that took a period of time and it came to be so. He inserts that, before He tells us again, God called the dry land earth.  He tells us what He called it in the verse before “it came to be so.”  He gathered the waters in one place and the dry land appeared, it came to be that way.

v. 10  He called the dry land earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called seas.

“Seas,” plural. We went from the waters in one place, all in one place, all in one body of water and now we have multiple seas. I’m telling you, you’ve got to read the scriptures so carefully, there’s so much in there. 

Isn’t that what scientists tell us? Pangaea, one body of water, one Pangaea, dry land and it came to be so.  In that coming to be so, that land began to split up so that when we come to the next verse, now we have multiple seas. You cannot have more than one ‘sea,’ I checked it, it is plural. It uses sea in the singular and it uses it in the plural and this is definitely in the plural, seas. It’s plural. The only way you can have more than one sea is if you divide them up by land masses, which now separated from where they were once one.

So we see in Genesis 1, the earth was all one sea, then we have the land appearing and the waters all at one place. Then we have the land dividing because we have multiples seas. So, the first thing I want us to see is that in the beginning everything, the whole earth was covered with water. No land appeared, because the whole earth was covered with sea.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 03:02:14 PM by Kat »
Jam 4:14 " whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. What is your life? For ye are a vapor, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away."


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Re: Postscript to Nashville Conference 08
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2009, 07:31:12 PM »

Now let’s go to the 104th Psalms. I have headings written in my bible, some have them some don’t. They call this a psalm ‘Rehearsing Creation.’ So even the translators understand this chapter is talking about the creation. It talks about something that God did, brings it forward in time… talks about something else God did in creation, brings it forward in time… talks about something else God did in creation, brings it forward in time, the whole chapter. Now let’s notice a couple verse.

Psa 104:2   Who covers Thyself with light as with a garment, who stretches out the heavens like a curtain.

When did God begin to stretch out the heavens like a curtain? At creation, Genesis 1. Not at Noah’s flood, God did not stretch out the heavens at the time of Noah’s flood. Now I’m making a point of that for a particular reason. Because some of these young earthers try to pull all kind of shenanigans and have us believe that this chapter and some places are talking about Noah’s flood.  It is not. Notice verse 5.

v. 5  who laid the foundations of the earth that it should not be removed or shaken for the eons.

When did He lay the foundations of the earth? At Noah’s flood?  No, Genesis 1, at creation.

v. 14  He causes the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth;

He caused the grass to grow for the cattle. When did He cause the grass to grow for the cattle? In Genesis 1:9 “let the earth bring forth grass.” What was it for? If you read on in the latter part, all this was made for mankind and for the cattle, this is Genesis 1.

v. 16  The trees of the Lord are full of sap, the cedars of Lebanon, which He had planted.

Now there’s only one place in the Bible that tell us that God planted trees, right, that’s in Genesis 1:11, let there trees and let them have fruit and so on and it did come to be so. In the Garden of Eden He planted seeds, He planted and caused to sprout. Nowhere else in the Bible do you find God going around planting trees.That’s the only place in Genesis 1. Notice this verse in Psalms 104.

v. 19  He appointed the moon for seasons: the sun knows his going down.

Where did God appoint the seasons and the moon and the stars in the heaven? Where? Genesis 1, that’s creation. This whole chapter is about creation. 

Let’s notice one or two more. In verse 20, “You made darkness, and it is night.” Where did God make darkness. Verse 3 in Genesis 1 at creation He separated the light from the darkness. He called the light - day, He called the darkness - night. This is where He did this, this is talking about Genesis 1.

Psa 104:24  O LORD, how manifold are Thy works! in wisdom hast Thou made them all: the earth is full of thy riches.

“In wisdom.” You know I showed up at the conference, Onkelos says where it says “In the beginning” he translates “In wisdom God created the heavens and the earth.” We have several statements throughout the Bibles that it was “in wisdom” that God created the earth. This is talking about creation, this is talking about Genesis 1. It is not talking about Noah’s flood.

So we see up here in verse 5 “Who laid the foundations of the earth...” Let’s notice precisely when that was done. When did He lay the foundations? Because we have other scripture on that, Job 38:1-4. I’m just going to zero in on verse 4.

Job 38:1  Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
v. 2  Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
v. 3  Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou Me.
v. 4  Where was thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

He’s taking Job back, in that whole 38 chapter, talking about the creation. He says you think you’re so smart (there’s some indication that Job had some involvement with the Great Pyramid of Cheops, that he may have been the architect), you think you’re so great a builder? Where were you when I laid the cornerstone of the earth? Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? This is talking about the creation. The foundations of the earth were laid in creation.

Job 38:8  Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it broke forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
v. 9  When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddling band for it,

Where did we read that? “And the earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep.” Thick gloom, darkness. Do you see? Light couldn’t penetrate it. That was in Genesis 1, in creation.

v. 10  And broke up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,

He’s talking about the water of the seas, He’s talking about making doors and bars. Here’s what He said to the sea back in Genesis when He set the parameters of the sea. 

v. 11  And said, Hitherto shall thou come (He‘s talking to the sea, you can come this far), but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?

 This is in Genesis, this is creation week. Now He says I’ve set the boundaries for the sea. I’ve set like doors and bars, it can come this far and no further. It can’t go further He said. Oh now with one exception, when Noah’s flood came along, of course there’s an exception, right? No. There are no exceptions to the rule. 

Rotherham says:
Job 38:11 And said—Hitherto, shalt thou come, and no further,—and, here, shalt thou set a limit to the majesty of thy waves?

Concordant says:
Job 38:11 When I said, Unto here shall you come but shall not proceed farther, And here a limit is set to the pride of your billows (waves)?

Now let’s notice Jeremiah 5.

Jer 5:22  Fear ye not Me? saith the LORD: will ye not tremble at My presence, which have placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual (which can mean, any more or at any time) decree, that it cannot pass it: and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?

Oh, with one exception, with Noah’s flood they passed anywhere they wanted to go. They defied all of God’s decrees and declaration and commandments?  No, and I’m going to come to an absolute proof of that in a minute.

Job 26:7  He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

This is talking about creation week.

Job 26:10  He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.

Put bounds on the sea, it can‘t go any further. Oh well except Noah’s flood?  No, never.
American Standard Version:
Pro 8:29  When He gave to the sea its bound, That the waters should not transgress His commandment, When He marked out the foundations of the earth;

Bishops Bible, that’s an old one.
Pro 8:29  When He shut the sea within certaine boundes, that the waters should not go ouer their markes that He commaunded: when He layde the foundations of the earth,

When was it decreed that these waters could not pass the sands, the seashore, the bars, the doors, the boundaries, all of these different statements concerning the sea can go so far. When? At creation week.

Pro 8:29 When He established for the sea its statutory limit, So that the waters may not pass beyond His bidding, When He delineated the foundations of the earth."

Pro 8:29 When He fixed for the sea its bound, that, the waters, should not go beyond His bidding, when He decreed the foundations of the earth:—

But Noah’s flood was an exception to all these decrees? No, no, no. 

Now, so in Psalms it says the foundations of the earth should not be removed forever or for the eon. Now let’s go back and read Psalms 104 and see what verse 5 said.

Psa 104:5  Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed forever (for the eon).
v. 6  Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.
v. 7  At Thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of Thy thunder they hasted away.
v. 8  They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.

Now, here young earth creationists say well its obviously talking about Noah’s flood. The flood goes up over the mountains and down through the valleys and then down to where God decrees they should be again.  There’s no reason whatsoever to think it’s talking about Noah’s flood, because of this whole setting. I went through about eight scriptures, is talking about the creation and the laying of the foundation of the world.  This is talking about Genesis 1, not Noah’s flood.

Well, how could the water go over the mountains or come all over the mountains and go down into the valleys?  How could that happen? Back in Genesis 1, because we had the earth covered with water, right.  Then God said, let the dry land appear and the waters were all gathered in one place, well were there mountains there where the water was flowing off? Well it doesn’t say, does it? It just doesn’t say. It says, “let the dry appear.” But how did it appear? Did God like cut out a big 5 million square mile piece of land and then push it up out of the ocean? Then there’s a big tabletop piece of continent? Is that how it happened? 

God does things through His laws.  We can learn about his laws, because not only can we see how things were made, we can see how they are still being made. God doesn’t reverse the boat in midstream and do things totally different. Where did the land come from when God said “let the dry appear”? Where did it come from? Well, it obviously came from underneath the water. When the dry land appeared the water dissipated. Where? Into one place and then into numerous seas, because you obviously have land masses breaking up into continents. But where did these continents come from?

This from Wikipedia, it’s not 100% on everything, but on a lot of scientific things they’re quite well researched. Did you know that more than 80% of the earth’s surface has come from volcanoes? The other 20% is obviously the result of continents being pushed and collided together and different things, which produces another 20% of land mass that is not originally in some way volcanic. All the topsoil at one time came from volcanoes.

Psa 104:7  At Thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of Thy thunder they hasted away.
v. 8  They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which Thou hast founded for them.

This is exactly what would happen if volcano started to erupt, coming up and poking out of the water. Where do you think the Hawaiian islands came from? Where do you think the billions of tons of topsoil… where they grow fabulous food in Hawaiian islands… where do you think that topsoil came from? Do you think they trucked it in from China on barges? The Hawaiian Islands produce their own topsoil. The volcanoes erode down into the valleys and produce topsoil. All those chains of islands are volcanoes and yet they have topsoil on all of that.

If mountains are forming and let’s face it those volcanoes were gurgling away for some time. You know that the ocean is pretty deep in the middle of the Pacific, it’s miles deep. So those volcanoes were gurgling and pushing up magma for many centuries, many millions of years maybe, before it came through the surface of the water. So the water was a very long period of time over the mountains. The mountains were submerged.  Now they’re coming up and what happens when they come up? The water runs down into the valleys, that’s what it says. That’s exactly what it says.

                              THE OLDEST ROCKS ON EARTH

The Acasta Gneiss: Gneiss is folded metamorphic rock, that is rock that has been reintroduced back into the hot molten lava of the earth and comes up again, it’s usually in the form of granite. In the Canadian Shield in the Northwest Territory granite is composed of the Archaean igneous.

Igneous is like our word ignite. You take a match and you ignite it, igneous, fire. These are fire rocks. Gneiss - cores of ancient mountain chains that have been exposed in a glacial peneplain. Analyses of zircons from a felsic orthogneiss with presumed granitic protolith returned an age of 4.03 billion years. That’s from the study of Bowring and Williams in 1999, which says it is the current oldest known terrestrial rock on the planet.

So the oldest rock they can find, the oldest piece of a continent they can find, what is it? It’s volcanic. The continents came from under the sea by means of volcanoes. 80% is volcanic, even now after all the plates pushing each other up and over and folding them out and all of that. Is this not what the scriptures say? Is this not a description here in Psalms 104, of what happened back there when God said let the dry appear?  Now they have found some zircons at Jack Hills which returned an age of 4.4 billion years, meaning the age of the crystallization of the zircons. 

Let’s go back to Psalms 104. Remember I said I will show you in so many words, not only that God caused the earth in Genesis 1 to come out of the sea, to be parted so there are many seas and then He set bounds. We read about half a dozen scriptures, where He set bounds, doors, locks, parameters, where the water cannot pass over, it cannot.

Psa 104:6  Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.
v. 7  At Thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of Thy thunder they hasted away.
v. 8  They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.
v. 9  Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over (now we read about six of those verses from Job and Jeremiah), that they turn not again to cover the earth.

There it is. They covered the earth once and God lifted up the land out of there and divided it so there were many land masses and seas and set the bounds of the sea. We were told declaration after declaration, after decree after decree those waves can never go pass those parameters. Well, you can have a little local flood, but they can never cover over land masses and now He said, “they turn not again.”  Never again. From the time of creation when the earth was covered with water, never again. Noah’s flood was not global. There it is, plain and simple.

That word “again” is the primitive root, means to turn back, to return to a starting point where it was once before or where it covered once before. Now it’s going to cover once again? It means adverbially again, to bring again, back, home again, carry again, come again , deliver again, give again, go again, pulling again, put again, up again, render again. I mean it means “not again.” The word “not” is an emphatic “not.” 

Psa 104:9  … that they turn not again to cover the earth.   
v. 10  He sendeth the springs into the valleys, which run among the hills.
v. 11  They give drink to every beast of the field:

He sends the springs into the valleys, that they run among the hills and give drink to everything. That’s why He did that. He brought up the land, then the waters ran down into the valleys and they took part of the mountains with them over millions of years, produced soil so that then He could plant the green. Why? For food for the cattle and give drink to the beasts and the wild asses and so on. Later on He has plant life for the cattle to eat and so forth. So that’s what happened in here and after He did that, after He planted the plant life and created the animals and everything and created the springs and the fresh water to water them… never again is He going to cover the waters over the whole earth again, never again.

Sorry I missed this at the conference, but I thought it was such interesting and profound points, so that I would bring them up.
[Comment: I was thinking that this study could not have even taken place fifty years ago, we did not have the knowledge.] No, it’s kind of like it says there in Daniel, in the latter days people will run to and fro and knowledge shall be increased. 

Dan 12:4  But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

I think everything, all the major areas that they are learning in science does support the Scriptures. They go totally against the Christian doctrines, that Noah’s flood was global and all that. 

I got and email this week that this guys says, ‘Ray, there was a canyon that was dredged out by water 60 feet deep, 120 feet wide and 1500 feet long or whatever, in six days.’ So. 'Well how hard is it to carve out the Grand Canyon over a short period of time?’ And he had about ten of those things like that. It’s stupid. 

So if you take 50 million in cubic feet of earth, which was moved in an area and made a little canyon… 50 million in six days. Now this was a very freak erosion, I mean this was a huge amount of soil to move in six days. But if you were to apply that same type of movement of soil to the Grand Canyon, guess how long it would take to carve it out? A couple of years like he suggest? One million five hundred thousand years, if it carved it out at the same rate. Of course we know that the river running through the Grand canyon hits some areas of pretty hard rock and it took a long time to wear through those. In some other places there was shale and it probably went faster through those. Now it’s down to granite and it’s not moving fast at all. 

You know they say, ‘Ray there are sea shell at the top of Mount Everest.’ Duh, what does that prove? There was Noah’s flood? No. It absolutely proves that it was not a Noah’s flood. It proves that that land at the top of Mt. Everest was once at sea level. Now how did it get up there? Well, Noah’s flood? No. You can’t take flood waters and pile wet mud six miles high in the air and then the water goes away and it stays up there.  Six miles of wet mud? Are you crazy.

Some young earthers, they will lie, cheat, steal (the truth) and finagle. They say, ‘yes that happened by plate tectonics, but it happened a couple of years after the flood.’ Oh really. Let’s go back to real science instead of this pseudo-science nonsense they deal with.

How much heat would be generated by pushing up six miles of mountain, covering hundreds of thousands of square miles and pushing this six miles high rock into the sky, in a few years? How much heat would be generated? Enough to melt the earth. The heat would be so intense from that kind of friction it would melt the earth. It would melt the whole earth back to where it was in Genesis 1:1. So no it is all nonsense.

Science doesn’t have it perfect, but science is on the right track. I find that scientist are honest. They really don’t care, so whatever science shows that is it, because they don’t care. I mean many scientist are eating a little crow, they say, ‘well we were wrong. Genesis in the Bible was right, there was a beginning. We didn’t think there was. Now we know there was.’ 

There are thousands of physicists, astronomers, mathematicians, archeologist and geologist and all kinds of people who are coming to see the basic tenants of the Bible are absolutely scientific, they just are and they are not afraid to admit it. It doesn’t mean that they all turn to be Christians, but they are willing to admit that this is the way that things are. 
« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 03:16:14 PM by Kat »
Jam 4:14 " whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. What is your life? For ye are a vapor, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away."


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Re: Postscript to Nashville Conference 08
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2011, 11:25:38 AM »

Jam 4:14 " whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. What is your life? For ye are a vapor, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away."
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