just how much are they decieved

[winner08]

hello everybody, This post here is about a friend of mind and about her church. She's been going to her church for yrs and she is very, very proud of this church and all the great things that they do. I though it would be very interesting to share this with yall and get your views.  We here at B.T. discuss this subjet quite often. Discuss being called out of bababloyn and their churches. Or the people who are so indoctrainated in their beliefs. The people are blinded by the false teachings. Or just the way they look at things (mainly their churches). This one here just showes how much they are decieved. All I can say is WOW!!! .



The church has a congregation of about  900 members. We have 4 different choirs and a 50 piece orchestra. The teaching and preaching in the bible is astounding and very well put together. The pastors & elders teach the bible for all spiritual matters and they prepare us for every day living and principles at a young age. We are taught the importance of faith and prayer and to seek the face God in spirit and in truth. It teaches repentance of the heart, a water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ with the infilling of the Holy Ghost and doing the best we can do according to the scriptures and to be 'Christ Like', following in the footsteps of the apostles who followed and taught Jesus.

The fruits and gifts of the spirit are all in operation.



There are four major services a week with weekly prayer meetings for different groups.

They do a Passion Play every year & a Christmas Cantata.



While it is generally a quiet church, there are testimonies, clapping of hands with music and praise and congregational prayer out loud. There is also worship where the lifting of arms is welcome, but everything is done decently and in order.

The church does teach some standards for modest dress, appearance and places of gathering, but does not require it of anyone unless they hold a leadership position. There are groups, retreats and outings for all ages. They put together a two week Vacation Bible School every summer for kids from 5 to 12. There is a one week summer camp meeting in July. It was at Camp, kneeling on an old concrete floor of the tabernacle is where I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost in 1975.

There is a Sunday school class for every age. As you turn your birthday, you enter a new class & by the time we reach 18 we have studied the entire bible. It is really neat. The church holds its own in every aspect and writes all of its own literature & is not affiliated with any specific religious organization. However it did form an organization & hosted it for over 25 years, trying to bring brothers & sisters in Christ of like faith into a, One mind, One strength and no Division understanding, for those who were interested. The church holds 3,000 people and the World Wide Fellowship was a huge success. It was held at our church for many years. The entire church was turned into a Hotel Campus with beds, meals, meetings and services for 4 days in May. It has recently turned the organization over to a smaller church to host and handle but has over 3 million lay people.



Apostolic Temple, is now focused on a day care center, and has built an awesome retirement home for the elderly as well as a youth center that joins the same property.

I love my church. No matter what we do, they always love & accept everyone, even when we have gone astray, they are always there to uplift & uphold its people. I also love it because there is something very special about it. It has been under the same leadership for 4 generations, that is 86 years in the same family. I have always considered it a prophet without honor in its own country because many of the local denominational churches are not real friendly toward us because it is so different in teaching.



One thing that makes me sad is, the church used to leave the doors unlocked to the public daily. Since the times have changed, it is no longer open during the day. It is even locked from entering after the services begin. 

[judith collier]

winner 8, a really social church gathering. Just curious though, you didn't say what they teach that insults your beliefs.  Judy

[Jackie Lee]

 



One thing that makes me sad is, the church used to leave the doors unlocked to the public daily. Since the times have changed, it is no longer open during the day. It is even locked from entering after the services begin. 


I don't believe churches leave the doors open anymore like they once did.
There is so much vandalism and robbery's, heck some of the churches have a lot of money that hasn't been taken to the bank yet, I would guess.
The church sounds pretty typical, what I was used to big crowds and activity some things may be good but hard to grow there in truth.

[winner08]

No Judy, I  never said I was insulted. My thoughts were about the babaloynian system, the church. The ones that are being called out of the churches by God. The ones that are being decieved. That's all. It just got me to thinking. I never said I was insulted. This sound to me like she was very  pridefull and vainity and boastfullness which all are of a carnal nature and are sinfull at that. (this is my opinion) no one else.

[saladking]

I can say from my experience that when I was going to Church the fellowship was very attractive.  The leaders were very nice and looked good.  Their lives reflected that they are well to do.  And it is true.  Most of the people at Church assemblies are really nice people.  What a shock I got when I discovered the truth that all will be saved.  When I mentioned it to some of the leaders, some of them turned really arrogant and patronising, and wouldn't be prepared to listen to a word that I had to say on it.  They can be subtly cruel that way.  They may not even know how insulting it is to be spoken to like that.  But if they would just think how they would feel in our shoes.  Yes, they are nearly always nice and kind when you agree with their doctrine.

Greetings.

[daywalker]

When i attended church i found a rather disturbing trend. At 1st i thought i was seeing that which was not there but soooo many circumstances prove just the opposite.

I witnessed on many occasion guys hitting up on gals, using the reverend voice of a father/priest to smooth them other, then seal the deal with a bible study. I usually got the end conversation where the bible study led to a cheap date evolving into a one night stand of intimacy. I heard and witnesses a promised of a trip to a study, become a pursuit of lust upon unsuspecting females trusting/believing in only being given a ride to the function/s and knowing of no other sort of compensation/obligation other then gas money being agreed upon.

unfortunately i pointed this out to my wife((my girlfriend at the time)) and believe it or not, she keep an eye on me.    so i attended my wife's church at her schedule, did not show any sort of over whelming affection towards her. Did this for ONE year, and man was this a trial.  

This past year, i have seen several of my pals daughters being picked up by some young gents taking them to a study, yea rite.  I would take it upon myself to questioned them in front of their parents and ask what topics they studied or what books, and i would get this simpleton blow off answer "oh we studied so and so" or "We read so and so" i would ask what did you get from it or learned, they would reply " nothing much" or "i don't remember i was feeling sleepy/sick/tired/sleepy". I would go into some precaution the ladies might want to always be aware of. To my surprise they would agree and speak of certain instances where this did and has happened to them. But as expected they defend the integrity of the gent picking them up and then they would remember a chore or certain something they needed to do and excuse themselves.     Out of all 3 ladies, who were being picked up for study, none of them are being picked up now,by the same gents who picked them up back then nor do they mentioned him when asked. And all 3 of the ladies do not attend anymore studies, stating those studies never did them any good or something along that line. My heart goes out to them.

I guess anything goes for a playing field in courtship these days. But what i find disturbing is an abuse in trust to a suppose front of a bible studied. Was there an overstep by the gents preying on the innocence and ignorance of the girls who in all hopes, have laid their trust in learning and seeking God, maybe even obtaining clearer answers to questions of life and these gentlemen of the night intercept them for satisfying their own primeval demons of lust.

"They shall wax worst....."

Live and Let Die
Rodger

Very interesting stuff, Rodger...

Reminds me of the Bible Camp I went to a few times through my old chruch when I was a young teen.  The guys would spend the first 4 out of 5 days flirting with the girls, trying to hook-up with them, and then on the last day we would all have bible study around a camp fire and the guys would all repent [some even cried] and rededicate themselves to God.

THE SAME GUYS EVERY YEAR!    Something aint right here


- Daywalker

[Jackie Lee]

When i attended church i found a rather disturbing trend. At 1st i thought i was seeing that which was not there but soooo many circumstances prove just the opposite.

I witnessed on many occasion guys hitting up on gals, using the reverend voice of a father/priest to smooth them other, then seal the deal with a bible study. I usually got the end conversation where the bible study led to a cheap date evolving into a one night stand of intimacy. I heard and witnesses a promised of a trip to a study, become a pursuit of lust upon unsuspecting females trusting/believing in only being given a ride to the function/s and knowing of no other sort of compensation/obligation other then gas money being agreed upon.

unfortunately i pointed this out to my wife((my girlfriend at the time)) and believe it or not, she keep an eye on me.    so i attended my wife's church at her schedule, did not show any sort of over whelming affection towards her. Did this for ONE year, and man was this a trial.  

This past year, i have seen several of my pals daughters being picked up by some young gents taking them to a study, yea rite.  I would take it upon myself to questioned them in front of their parents and ask what topics they studied or what books, and i would get this simpleton blow off answer "oh we studied so and so" or "We read so and so" i would ask what did you get from it or learned, they would reply " nothing much" or "i don't remember i was feeling sleepy/sick/tired/sleepy". I would go into some precaution the ladies might want to always be aware of. To my surprise they would agree and speak of certain instances where this did and has happened to them. But as expected they defend the integrity of the gent picking them up and then they would remember a chore or certain something they needed to do and excuse themselves.     Out of all 3 ladies, who were being picked up for study, none of them are being picked up now,by the same gents who picked them up back then nor do they mentioned him when asked. And all 3 of the ladies do not attend anymore studies, stating those studies never did them any good or something along that line. My heart goes out to them.

I guess anything goes for a playing field in courtship these days. But what i find disturbing is an abuse in trust to a suppose front of a bible studied. Was there an overstep by the gents preying on the innocence and ignorance of the girls who in all hopes, have laid their trust in learning and seeking God, maybe even obtaining clearer answers to questions of life and these gentlemen of the night intercept them for satisfying their own primeval demons of lust.

"They shall wax worst....."

Live and Let Die
Rodger

Rodger sounds as if we went to the same church, then again most of the money churches are like that.
I told a couple of my friends what went on at church, I am not sure if they believed this or not.
It is all true and then some in my old church.

[aqrinc]

Don't get upset with me but, i had two very good reasons to attend my Methodist Church in Belize.

1. The best looking and nicest Girls were all going to church on Sunday.
2. My friends and i knew where the wine was kept by the minister.

Looking back on that experience i did learn a lot of Bible (Old KJV) and that everybody lied about
most things they claimed to believe.

Oh; we also went to check out the Catholic Church around the corner; more Girls and more wine.
Big problem with them (The sales pitch was way too long for 12 and 13 year old boys with things to do).

george.

[Jackie Lee]

That is funny George!
When I was in the pentacostal church it still amazes me at what went on there.
Years ago my dad would tell my brothers if they wanted to find a nice girl, go to church.
I will speak for my old church only, but it was more worldly than the joints and clubs... if you know what I mean.
Well I want say more but it certaintly makes me know why I had to leave.

[Ninny]

Jackie Lee! George!
Shocking!!
Kathy  

[aqrinc]

Funny but very true for many Jackie Lee. Ninny are you really shocked, or just stunned.

Those were some of the best days of my younger years; later Got a Wife out of that deal too. 

george.

[judith collier]

I haven't had your type of experiences but I left Catholic school after 8th grade and since I was only 1 of 2 white kids in the classroom of 46 kids and nobody thought about mixing up the races at the time, well, it never happened. I went to school in Mich. and that was back in the early 50's, But I did manage to go to public high school right when rock and roll came on the scene. We danced and drank our way through. Perhaps I used the wrong word (insulting) I wished I would have had more uplifting things to do when I was a teenager, the protestant churches always looked like the kids had a lot to pick from. Guess it wasn't all it appeared. And maybe the girl talking about her church just plain liked it and wasn't being proud or bragging. I don't know. How does one do any good works here as to charity, missions, programs for the poor, etc, when collectively there is no money or anyone to work with?  Curious!

[Ninny]

Really? You were fortunate to get you a wife there George! I probably would have passed up on you if you were really that rascally Ha! I used to tell my sons to try to find a girlfriend at church!! I'm kinda glad they didn't! My younger son found his wife at a party! They had both been raised in a Christian home, and thankfully they both found their way back to God! My older son found his wife through the internet   They have been married for 10 years. They don't have much contact with "the church" but they are (I think) seekers after God!
So who knew that you could find yourself a mate OUTSIDE of church!!
Kathy

[Ninny]

Judy, that is a good question you asked. I have always thought each individual would do whatever they could to relieve suffering and to do what Jesus would do in each situation. Maybe someone else could answer that question better than I! It might be interesting to see what different people do to fulfill the commands Jesus gave regarding those things.    Some people are reluctant to answer because we are commanded to do our alms quietly and in secret.
Kathy

[Falconn003]

Don't get upset with me but, i had two very good reasons to attend my Methodist Church in Belize.

1. The best looking and nicest Girls were all going to church on Sunday.
2. My friends and i knew where the wine was kept by the minister.

Looking back on that experience i did learn a lot of Bible (Old KJV) and that everybody lied about
most things they claimed to believe.

Oh; we also went to check out the Catholic Church around the corner; more Girls and more wine.
Big problem with them (The sales pitch was way too long for 12 and 13 year old boys with things to do).

george.

OH nooooo ju da guy they chasing down the street with shotguns....... 

As you can see i found my wife in the church as well.  i like the quite ones. 

Rodger

You people are a riot.

[aqrinc]

Hi Judy,

These are the Scriptures i find that can address your question about helping others. Do we
really need to know who give's what or is that one way the Church has trained it's members.

Matthew 6:1:
Take heed that you do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise you have no
reward of your Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 6:2:
Therefore when you do your alms, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in
the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Truly I say to you, They
have their reward.

Matthew 6:3:
But when you do alms, let not your left hand know what your right hand does:

Matthew 6:4:
That your alms may be in secret: and your Father which sees in secret himself shall reward you openly.


george.

[aqrinc]

Roger,

Who told you about the shotgun; that was never supposed to come out.

george.

OH nooooo ju da guy they chasing down the street with shotguns....... 

As you can see i found my wife in the church as well.  i like the quite ones. 

Rodger

You people are a riot.
[/quote]

[judith collier]

agr, yes, giving privately is the right way but when done collectively people can accomplish much more. Nobody in the Catholic Church knew what a person gave except if one was rich you just knew they gave a lot more than you did. The office kept a record for taxes but we weren't treated differently. Since we always had our own schools it took a lot of money but if a kid was poor they were given a scholarship. I got a great education and so I sent all my children(4) to C. school for 8 yrs. and one was valedictorian at I.U. Something can be said for people coming together and raising money for needed projects. I don't think you might have visited enough churches  if all you see is bad and that's not true. And maybe they are theologically incorrect on some points but none of my kids are self-rightious, they seem to have gotten Christ pretty well and none are adamant about what happens when you die, they just leave it to God. Judy

[indianabob]

Friend Judy, from Indiana,

As Kathy said, that was a good question about how we are to serve and learn to be served if we don't have a local congregation.
I also note that you are comfortable with a person sharing the good works that their church does without it being called bragging.  Most people like to help someone who is truly in need and that sharing of knowledge about the group's activities is normal and healthy in my view.  There are lots of nice people out there in the world.

My adult daughter works full time and also serves as an ambulance driver volunteer because she has a desire to help people and also a desire to belong to an organization doing good works.  They don't have to be "church works" in order to please God and for us to get SPIRITUAL CREDIT in God's Kingdom.  My daughter Kathryn also belongs to the local Lions Club and is their secretary for meetings and charitable works in the local community.  In our town of Culver, Indiana, pop. 1150, the Lions club collected and will distribute about $12,000.00 during 2009.

As some of the folks may recall (you can read my older letters to the forum) I was attending and preparing Bible studies at a local church fellowship until a year ago when it became just too difficult to continue with these "good" people who were blind to the truth and really didn't want me to teach what they couldn't understand or agree with.  My wife Doris, who believes with me much of what BT teaches and explains, had been attending only occasionally but we knew all of the members of this church group for years and they had treated us with love in every way. 

It was difficult, but eventually we just had to go our separate ways so that we could learn and grow in the understanding God has given us AND they could go along blinded and happy in their ignorance of the full truth or let me say our imperfect but growing and more correct understanding of Bible Truth.  They didn't understand why we don't attend any longer, but we are at peace with the situation and still communicate as friends.

I mention this because we still see these folks every week at the grocery store and other places around town and two of them belong to the Lions Club where my daughter is a member.  So, my wife Doris serves one of the ladies, Mrs. K. the church piano player, by driving her to the city and to the doctors office and for test for her diabetes about twice a month.  Mrs. K. needs help and Doris provides it because God wants us to love other people.  There are no strings attached.  We don't have to be in the same church or in any church for that matter.  We just have to follow the example of the Samaritan and God knows what we do and whether we love people or not.  It is all a matter of attitude.  God has blessed us and we do as much as we can to bless others.  We do not have to share doctrine or convert other people in order to serve them and to gain treasure in heaven.

Now if anyone asks us the reason for our faith, we are to study to have an answer and to share a LITTLE of that truth with them as circumstances permit, but we need to be very careful to remember that it is God who calls each person.  That calling is God's responsibility and the task of our Lord Jesus to work with the people in their own mind and heart and perhaps with our help if that is possible.

Finally, it doesn't take special facilities or lots of money in order to obey God and become a serving, loving person in our local community and our own family.  God is not expecting us to do a certain amount of work and convert a certain number of people to follow Jesus and obey the law of love.  Our task is to obey God and work on ourselves and to grow in grace and in the knowledge of God.  Getting to know God and His son Jesus; really getting to know Him in a manner that we can speak to God as we would to our best friend.  Perhaps to pray fervently for the need of a friend and then to visit that friend and be a close companion and then after months or even years of establishing TRUE friendship, to begin to share the knowledge of God that we have gained and are convicted of in our own hearts.  WE have a lot to offer, but only God can remove the blindness from a persons understanding so we need to be patient and discerning in our approach.

I have found that if a person is REALLY interested in knowing more about God, they will be asking more questions than we can answer.  We won't be able to get away from them for all the questions and testimonies that they will bring into the conversation.  When a person is really called of God we don't have to argue with them; they will be of the same mind as we are, they will agree before the question is even asked.

Hope this helps a little and please, please ask more of others on the forum who have had different or better experiences than I have had.  In multiple counsel there is wisdom.  Prov 24:6

Warm regards, Bob

I haven't had your type of experiences but I left Catholic school after 8th grade and since I was only 1 of 2 white kids in the classroom of 46 kids and nobody thought about mixing up the races at the time, well, it never happened. I went to school in Mich. and that was back in the early 50's, But I did manage to go to public high school right when rock and roll came on the scene. We danced and drank our way through. Perhaps I used the wrong word (insulting) I wished I would have had more uplifting things to do when I was a teenager, the protestant churches always looked like the kids had a lot to pick from. Guess it wasn't all it appeared. And maybe the girl talking about her church just plain liked it and wasn't being proud or bragging. I don't know. How does one do any good works here as to charity, missions, programs for the poor, etc, when collectively there is no money or anyone to work with?  Curious!

[Ninny]

IBob,
Good advice, as usual! 
Judy, I told you others could tell you better than I! I'm sure you could get a lot of different ideas as to how to serve without being in a church.
Kathy