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update on surgery
Samson:
Thankyou Kat,
I read that Email response of Ray's that you Posted regarding Free Will,
out loud to my Wife this Morning and thought to myself, that was a great
version of boiling the whole Free Will Myth in a few paragraphs.
All is of God, God is responsible as to how he is creating Man in his image,
God doesn't make anyone Sin, they volunteer to do so based on their desire
from their exceedingly weak heart, although there are causes that lead to our
choices, we aren't necessarily aware of what they are at the time we make
our choices. Since God doesn't make us chose anything, we are accountable
for our Sins.
In regards to the older Brother that pushed his younger 3 year old Brother
off the fence, we can all agree, there was a prior cause that led to that
choice(pushing his Brother off the fence). We don't have any specific details
as to why he did it. We don't know whether or not it was a malicious act or
was he horsing around playing some game or what his motivation(desire) was.
We do know from reading that Email response of Ray's that God did not directly
make that Boy chose anything. All of Mankind are created with a Heart that's
exceedingly weak having carnal desires that cause us to make choices and
eventually God Will rectify all the harm resulting from those choices.
Kind Regards, Samson.
Kat:
Samson, that was a good rely it sum up what happened to the little boy really well. But I am going to carry this a little further for those who want to go even deeper into this. As God is Sovereign this world is the way that it is because it is His plan for this age... an evil experience. There is no 'free will,' it is caused, all of it and it all leads to vanity, which the Ecclesiastes show so well that we all have. These caused carnal desire lead to much evil, not that God Himself caused them, because of the way we are created we readily 'volunteer,' which is all His plan.
Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it. (CLV)
Here is an excerpt from the second letter to Kennedy of 'Exposing Those Who
contradict.'
http://bible-truths.com/kennedy2.htm ----------------------------------
FREE WILL VS. GOD'S INTENTION
Until we come to believe that God Almighty is sovereign and " ... is operating all according to the counsel of His will" (Eph. 1:11) we will never fully understand the Scriptures or appreciate the marvelous works of God.
To say that man has a "free will" and absolutely nothing "causes" it to accept or reject God, and then say, "But God already knows who will and who won't and how many," is not only unscriptural, but defies all logic. To say, "But God knows all" will not solve your dilemma. Because if nothing causes man to choose as he does, then that knowledge does not even exist until the choice is actually made. Yet you yourself insist that one could have chosen good when he chose evil. If God does not cause people's choices, then even God would have to wait until the choice is actually made before knowing the choice.
You might postulate that God sees and knows all things so God can deduce from "this event" or "that event" or "a condition over here" or "a circumstance over there" or "some other thing" that a man will make the choice that God knows he will make. Okay, I'll accept that. Only one problem for your position, however. If this is your reasoning, you just threw your own "free will" theory out the window. This is, in the main, how our choices actually work. Something over here or other there, this event or that event, a word spoken here or there, the condition of our stomach or the condition of our bank account, etc., are the very things that daily cause us to make the choices that we make. And God controls and operates all of these unseen, unknown circumstances that then "influence" (just a softer way of saying "cause") our every thought.
God does know all and God causes all. All is of God, and God is operating all according to the Counsel of His will. Besides, why is it then that none choose "good?" Why did our Lord say that even He could do nothing except by the Father? And didn't our Lord plainly state that we, of ourselves, can also do nothing? You know that verse is in the Bible. You know it is true. But it upsets theologians like you when people like me actually believe it.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
judith collier:
Kat and everyone else who have given their all to this subject, thank you!! I hope I light up your heart Kat and ot hers and if I am wrong , just shoot me!!!-------God made good and evil.---- God made us spiritually weak(our forordained state)----- We have choices.---- The buck stops at God's desk though(responsibility) because He created(caused) all this good and evil. He knows what is going to happen.-----He knows our choices. He will make it o.k. in the end. He is the catylist (the Soverign God)--- Judy
Kat:
Hi Judy,
John 8:32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
:D
mercy, peace and love
Kat
aqrinc:
Hi Judy,
I missed your first (Step), yes that has lit a fire in my mind. BTW; welcome again
to the BT forum. ALL IS OF GOD; you now can start to see this through HIS opening
your eyes of understanding. When or if you ever doubt always remember these Scriptures
Micah 7:7: (AKJV)
Therefore I will look to the LORD; I will wait for the God of my salvation: my God will hear me.
Php 4:19 (CLV)
Now my God shall be filling your every need in accord with His riches in glory in Christ Jesus.
george ;D ;D ;D.
--- Quote from: Judy on January 25, 2009, 04:05:30 PM ---Kat and everyone else who have given their all to this subject, thank you!! I hope I light up your heart Kat and ot hers and if I am wrong , just shoot me!!!-------God made good and evil.---- God made us spiritually weak(our forordained state)----- We have choices.---- The buck stops at God's desk though(responsibility) because He created(caused) all this good and evil. He knows what is going to happen.-----He knows our choices. He will make it o.k. in the end. He is the catylist (the Soverign God)--- Judy
--- End quote ---
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