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Author Topic: Will a TRUE prophet ever be ashamed?  (Read 2040 times)

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josh

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Will a TRUE prophet ever be ashamed?
« on: May 31, 2006, 05:54:11 PM »

Today I was reading the last few chapters of Zechariah and I must admit that chapter 13, makes absolutely no sense to me at all.


Zechariah 13
In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.

This seems to be a negative reference to “prophets�… are these prophets in disobedience to God?

And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive: But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.

This passage (possibly out of context) resonates with the feelings I have had as of late to the truths I feel I have been allowed to uncover with the scriptures… not just from my literal parents, but from my “home church� and from my “friends�…

And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

Is it the prophet now who has done wrong? Or those who have wounded him?
 
Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

Is the shepherd the same as the “husbandman?� or “the prophet?�

And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

These last two verses are far beyond me… can anyone help to shed light on any of this? I have much more to read…

I have come to understand in the last six months that understanding of the scriptures does not come from effort or willingness on my part, but it comes in the perfect time of God to those who He wills...

I also understand that I cannot compromise nor change the timing of His will being accomplished in me, I only ask these questions because my desire is to know the truth, and I often and "stumped" by the mysteries of THE WORD.
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knuckle

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Will a TRUE prophet ever be ashamed?
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2006, 07:52:23 PM »

Hi Josh---------

   this is my understanding of it(If I have it wrong someone please correct me)

a fountain opened to the house of David -----  this is Christ

also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land. ---  false prophets saying what folks want to hear

when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD:-----as the Spirit starts to dwell in folks those false prophets will be recognised for what they are

   the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied;-----the Spirit will start to work on those false prophets they will go back to more honorable trades

Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. ---- who would seek to put you on the strait and narrow but those who love you?

  Pro 27:6  Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.


     The subject changes at verse 7 ---we are now talking about Christ


   against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered----Christ is the shepherd After the ascention the Christians would be relentlessly persicuted (tribulations John wrote of in Revalation)and Jerusalem distroyed by Rome

   the last two verses are talking about the remnant of Isreal that is left and scattered after Romes persicutions


    This is just my take on it Josh.I would like to hear those of others.


   much love-------knuckle
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orion77

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Will a TRUE prophet ever be ashamed?
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2006, 08:31:15 PM »

Josh, this is what I see here, but could be wrong.  

Gods land, or holy ground, where He has placed His Holy Spirit has no room for unclean spirits or the sound of false prophets.


(Zec 13:4)  And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he prophesieth; neither shall they wear a hairy mantle to deceive:

(Zec 13:5)  but he shall say, I am no prophet, I am a tiller of the ground; for I have been made a bondman from my youth.


This seems to speak of the works of the many called, for their works are of the ground as Cains was, for they are of the bondman or woman.  Now they are ashamed of what they speak.

(Zec 13:9)  And I will bring the third part into the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried. They shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people; and they shall say, Jehovah is my God.


Now it seems to speak of a remnant, who are awakened to the deceits and are tried as gold, by God, to be His people, who He will hear.  In which, they say, "Jehovah is my God", and are no longer deceived by the false prophets and unclean spirits.

Notice it takes being tried as gold, to be purified, before God will hear us.  It always takes His fire, His Spirit, and His truths, to get these eyes to see.  It is nothing that we do, but everything He does.

That is my take, hope it helps.

God bless,

Gary
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Indagator

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Re: Will a TRUE prophet ever be ashamed?
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2006, 01:10:29 AM »

I'm going to give this a shot. I'm currently right now very much in the "testing of spirits" so forgive me if I'm incorrect, or mistunderstanding the Spirit.

Quote from: josh
Today I was reading the last few chapters of Zechariah and I must admit that chapter 13, makes absolutely no sense to me at all.


Quote from: josh
Zechariah 13
In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.


There will be a means of cleansing opened to the Church (House of David) and to people of Jerusalem (as of yet, unconverted) for sin. When this happens, God cuts off off the names of the idols of the land (but not the idols themselves, only their "names") "and they shall no more be remembered"...They are no longer remembered as the idols they were (which dosen't mean they aren't still there, but now we've forgotten their names and yet they remain).  I'm missing a piece of the puzzle with the last sentence here concerning the prophets and unclean spirit passing out of the land.

Actually...now that I think of it...which prophets?  I almost gave up on this, but then remembered the "false prophet".  So, then God may cause the "False prophets" and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.  Whew, thanks Father, I almost missed that one :)

Quote from: josh
This seems to be a negative reference to “prophets�… are these prophets in disobedience to God?


As I was saying above, it's possible that the "prophets" are the "False prophet" of revealation.  God does not change so I have to keep in mind that when the Word puts "prophet" into a negative light, it could very well be referring to the false prophet.

Quote from: josh
And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive: But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.


"It will happen that when any one speaks the Word of Truth, his mother and father that begat him (the church that he was called out of) will say to him, "You will suffer eternal torment, because you believe something contrary to God".  In that same day  the false prophets shall be ashamed of the word that God has given them because they could not understand, and neither will they shame themselves in order to deceive, but they will instead say "I am no prophet, I am a false shepherd, for man (mankind, and church included) taught me to keep sheep from my youth.  It's a matter of "their shepherds have led them astray".  Huge pride issue with the "shepherd".

This passage (possibly out of context) resonates with the feelings I have had as of late to the truths I feel I have been allowed to uncover with the scriptures… not just from my literal parents, but from my “home church� and from my “friends�…

Quote from: josh
And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.


I'm feeling you here man :)  Even the very people I love would crucify me.  because they can't accept me.  That's a part of the deal.  I think the hardest part though is crucifying yourself...and that's what must be done I think although I could be wrong.  I'm still young in this myself.

Quote from: josh
Is it the prophet now who has done wrong? Or those who have wounded him?


Both I think. The "prophet" is wrong, but thinks he is right.  The ones who have wounded him also think they are right.  Neither have the mind of Christ.  Try to keep in mind that scripture is about Christ in you when reading this.  Christ was showing us exactly how to reach God. It's your job to follow after him.
 
Quote from: josh
Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.


Strike down the leaders of my children and also the man that says that he follows me(the false shepherd).  Smite the leader (flesh, carnality) and the followers of flesh and carnality will be scattered, and I will cover the denominations/sects of the church with my hand.  I know this is all wonky, but I'm getting a sort of "cloudy" feeling here.  I need help with this one. I know that the usual in interpretation is that Christ is saying that he is the shepherd that is smitten.  I'm most likely not the best person to answer this, but I gave what I did in the thought that someone might have something to help me as well the original poster.

Quote from: josh
Is the shepherd the same as the “husbandman?� or “the prophet?�


I believe so.  The Spirit will tell.

Quote from: josh
And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.


It will happen that in the church two parts will be cut off and die (from the Spirit) but the third shall be left therein (in the spirit).  Many are called but few are chosen.

I will bring the chosen through the fire and will purify them.  They will call on me and I will say these are mine...my elect.  They will say "The LORD is my God".  Keep in mind that's even after dealing with the Lake of Fire here and now as we speak and live.

These last two verses are far beyond me… can anyone help to shed light on any of this? I have much more to read…

I have come to understand in the last six months that understanding of the scriptures does not come from effort or willingness on my part, but it comes in the perfect time of God to those who He wills...

I also understand that I cannot compromise nor change the timing of His will being accomplished in me, I only ask these questions because my desire is to know the truth, and I often and "stumped" by the mysteries of THE WORD.
 

Oh believe me man, I completely understand.  I've whined to God and to the person that led me to this site enough times that it's not coming quickly enough.  You get a taste of the truth and get ravenous for more, but it dosen't work that way.  If it did, who could possibly survive?  Could anyone possilby deal with the lake of fire all at once?  Not me, I'm only human.  That's why you have to be patient.  God will reveal to you what what you can handle a little at a time.  To ask more is folly, because you won't be able to comprehend it and then you're back to the "false prophet".  How better to teach patience than to make one wait?  It's a hard lesson and one I am currently learning.  The Lord knows I'm impatient, but I can only receive what is given.

Luk 21:19  In your patience possess ye your souls.
Luk 8:15  But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.  (KEEP the word after hearing it)
Rom 5:3  And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;(this is NO exception for you)
Rom 15:4  For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope..  Keep hope always, even when you're mislead.
Heb 6:12  That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.  You MUSt actively seek the truths of God.  Follow those who go before you in faith and patience. Follow Christ.
Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. Once you've done the will of God in patience, you receive the "promise". I had a thought here, but I'm not sure if it's me or the Spirit on this, so I'll have to leave it alone for now.  
Rev 14:12  : here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.Here is the patience of the saints


The "saints" being the "elect" must have patience in order to be able to even keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus in the first place.  You'll hear "In your patience possess ye your souls" alot.  There is a reason for that.  I know you want to know it all now.  I do too.  But be patient in the Lord, he will not give you what you cannot handle for a reason. Be faithful and follow Christ.  That's what's most important.


By the way, if I am off base or somehow misleading here, please do correct me.  I myself am only a child in Christ now and trying as best I can to understand.
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josh

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Will a TRUE prophet ever be ashamed?
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2006, 02:42:14 AM »

After posting this earlier this afternoon, I took the time to go back and read through chapter 13 and a few of the surrounding chapters for context. It seems a bit more clear now...

I am still having a difficult time understanding that SUM of God's word is being fulfilled daily... I have been so use to waiting on a timeline of events... I have to remind myself now before reading that this ALL pertains to God's plan for me.

I feel guilty that I have lived my life believing that prophecy didn't have much to do with me... that all these things would simply happen somewhere across the world far from me... and that i would simply be rescued out escaping all suffering.

A huge amount of pride has been revealed to me in my belief system. Thank you for your help in putting me in my place in the SUM of His Word!
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malachi12

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Will a TRUE prophet ever be ashamed?
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2006, 02:51:32 AM »

Well, you have to examine the Land called Israel today. The REAL JEWS are not living in HOLY LAND according to History and Biblical prophesy.

Southern Israelites (Jews) were breaking the Laws by practicing other religions so the LORD kick them out and gave it to the Khazars (converts)

So, in conclusion the Khaxars are in Israel claiming to be Jews and the that prophesy has been fulfilled
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lilitalienboi16

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Will a TRUE prophet ever be ashamed?
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2006, 04:14:45 AM »

Quote from: malachi12
Well, you have to examine the Land called Israel today. The REAL JEWS are not living in HOLY LAND according to History and Biblical prophesy.

Southern Israelites (Jews) were breaking the Laws by practicing other religions so the LORD kick them out and gave it to the Khazars (converts)

So, in conclusion the Khaxars are in Israel claiming to be Jews and the that prophesy has been fulfilled




"For to be carnally minded is DEATH;  but to be spiritually minded is LIFE and peace" (Rom. 8:6). Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. (Rom 8:7)

Josh, what i have learned is that the context of things don't matter when you are looking at them spiritual. if you want the Historical and CARNAL (literal/ physical/natural) sence of what is being said then fine read the context. Remember however the way the disciples quoted scripture, you will see its quiet opposite to what the church teaches, and to what you maybe be accustomed too. (I know it was for me.)

Read this article if you have no clue what im talking about :)

http://www.*not-allowed*.com/understandingbible.php

God bless,

Alex
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malachi12

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Will a TRUE prophet ever be ashamed?
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2006, 11:27:24 AM »

lilitalienboi16,

bit confuse. Why did you have my statement under your reply.
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