Jehovah Eternal ?????

[Fabruk]

Hey friends sorry to disturb again but I need some help.
I read and listened to the teachings about Jesus not being eternal and that is an important point to prove the Trinity is not scriptural but I was chatting to my friend the other day and I told him I believe Jesus is the Jehovah in the Old Testament like Ray says, then I went to Strong's dictionary and it says Jehovah means the Self existent, Eternal. So how can that be? Is there other dictionary with better meaning or how do I understand Jehovah according to Scripture.
I appreciate any help

God Bless

Fabio/UK

[aqrinc]

Hi Fabio,

Ray did address those questions, like you are learning there are no 5 second answers.
Take a bit of time to read the entire paper below; check out the excerpt for some of
the answers to your questions. No need to be sorry, we are here to help each other,
in this case Ray has already done the hard work for us; so use it.


WHO AND WHAT IS JESUS? & WHO IS HIS FATHER? . . . Nashville Conference 2007

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html

See this excerpt: WHO IS THE FATHER?

When we hear of Elohim, El, or Jehovah Elohim, it is as much from the Father as it is Christ, because they are one.   

Jesus Christ is the spokesman for His Father.  No matter what Christ says, He is the mouth piece for the Father.  He's not Charley McCarthy, He's not a puppet, but He is the mouth piece for the Father, they are in agreement.  I don't know if the proper phonetics and all that are given to Him by the Father and if He really has no latitude of His own. 

But in Spirit... the whole thing has to do with spirit and attitude, they are ONE! 

So it says in Acts 5:30 "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus."   But when we read in the OT "the God of our fathers," it was Jesus.  But what I want to show by that is the Scripture themselves gives us the latitude to recognize that no matter who the person is, whether it be the Father or the Son, it's always God. 

It is always God.  Even Christ in His humiliation, in His physical form, where He was severely limited as a human being.  It may say it's Jesus Christ speaking, but it doesn't matter if it says it's Jesus Christ speaking or the OT it's Jehovah speaking.  We know if someone is speaking it's NOT the Father.  Because He does not speak, except through the Son. 

So when Christ said, "I have come to reveal the Father" or in John 1:18 where John says Christ came to reveal or unfold the Father, it doesn't necessarily mean that now Christ is going to tell us all about the Father.  He's going to tell us how the Father communicates now and in the past.  All we have to recognize is the Father communicates through the Son. 

So when Jesus Christ said, "before Abraham was, I Am" they should have begun to realize... wait a minute are You saying that was You?  You talked to Moses? 
Now we know that some of the apostles, got it for sure.  Paul understood that spiritual Rock was Christ, that is who it was. 

Now at the last supper Philip did not know, he just didn't know.  So He said "have I been with you so long, and you ask who the Father is, if you have seen Me you have seen the Father."  Then He went on in different places to say a number of things.

"I and the Father are One."  (John 10:30)
"I am in Him and He is in Me, We are One."  (John 17:21)
"The Words I speak, I speak of the Father." (John 12:50)

It's like, 'ooh, now I get it.'  By the time of the crucifixion and the next day after the resurrection, even doubting Thomas, he only doubted that Jesus was raised from the dead.  But once he knew it was Jesus and if you talked to him and said Thomas do you believe in God?  He would say, 'yes, sure I believe in God.'  Do you believe in the God of Abraham and Isaac?  He was there at that last supper and he would have said, 'sure I do.'  But did he really comprehend who that God was, that he thought he believed in?

Now that Christ was crucified and they thought, the jig is up.  Then the apostles said 'He's alive,' but Thomas said I'll believe it when I see the holes in His body.  So Jesus said to Thomas come here, put your hand in My side, see the holes in My hands.  What was his reaction?  He knew it was Jesus Christ and if Jesus Christ could come back from the dead, then everything that He ever said was true.  Everything that Man said was true.  Now it's "My Lord and My God."  Now Thomas not only acknowledged Him as the resurrected Jesus Christ, but if that Man came back from the dead, He's also God.

God doesn't change.  When you have perfect character, perfect love, as Christ and the Father say that they have, you don't change.  There is no variableness of turning in God the Father and Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.  Jehovah Elohim is the Lord God of Malachi 3:6, which is Jehovah Elohim and just as much God as Jehovah and "I change not."

george.

[Marky Mark]

Hey friends sorry to disturb again but I need some help.
I read and listened to the teachings about Jesus not being eternal and that is an important point to prove the Trinity is not scriptural but I was chatting to my friend the other day and I told him I believe Jesus is the Jehovah in the Old Testament like Ray says, then I went to Strong's dictionary and it says Jehovah means the Self existent, Eternal. So how can that be? Is there other dictionary with better meaning or how do I understand Jehovah according to Scripture.
I appreciate any help

God Bless

Fabio/UK

then I went to Strong's dictionary and it says Jehovah means the Self existent, Eternal.

Here is a great read on the eternal,hope it helps

http://bible-truths.com/aeonion.htm

Nice find George


Peace...Mark

[Kat]

Hi Fabio,

Here is another excerpt from the 2006 conference that should also help your understanding on this.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=3720.0--------------

Isa 45:5  I am Jehovah, and there is none else; besides me there is no God. I will gird thee, though thou hast not known me;

How can there be no other God besides Jehovah?  He is Yahweh and Elohim is part of Yahweh.  So He says I am the Lord and there is no God besides Me.
Now when it says, in the beginning God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth, it's a plural.  That's why God said let US be making man in OUR image.  How can one person say Us and Our?  It's because God is from the Hebrew word Elohim and it's plural.  Jehovah is part of that plurality.
v
v
Like an ambassador of our country, you would represent your country, tho you are not our country, you are the highest representative of your country.  But Jehovah is part of the Elohim, the One God.

I know this is a little bit of a stretch for most people, but God is not the first name of the Father.  God is a title, it means the supreme Being of the universe, the supreme Deity, that's what God means and represents.  In most languages that's the title, not the personal name of some being, it's a title.

Jesus Christ looks like God, acts like God and thinks like God, has all the power, majesty and glory of God.  HE'S GOD!

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mercy, peace and love
Kat

[aqrinc]

Fabio,

When you find out how the Church Leaders through the last 18 or 19 centuries
have deceived their flock; it should pain you. Read Ray's papers which are the
easiest way for you to learn this subject or go and do all the research yourself.
Be prepared for a long search, and much digging if you want to get to the heart
of this great deception. Learn the real meaning of Aion (age), Aionios (of the ages),
and Hell (hades, imperceptible). Again Ray has done most of the homework already.

Here is a Scripture that warned about these deceptions long ago: 3 different translations.

Dan 7:25 (MKJV)  
And he shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints
of the Most High, and plot to change times and laws. And they shall be given
into his hand until a time and times and one-half time.

Dan 7:25  (YLT)
and words as an adversary of the Most High it doth speak, and the saints of the
Most High it doth wear out, and it hopeth to change seasons and law; and they
are given into its hand, till a time, and times, and a division of a time.

Dan 7:25 (Rotherham's)
and, words against the Most High, will he speak, and, the holy ones of the Highest,
will he afflict,—and will hope to change times and law, and they will be given into
his hand, for a season and seasons and the dividing of a season,

george.