BT is causing a wedge

[EKnight]

Dear members,

At this very moment I am seething with anger toward my husband for his disinterest in my affairs here at BT.

Let me explain.  Last night we went out to dinner for our son's 21st birthday.  On the drive home we were talking and somehow I brought Ray into the conversation.  My son got angry and said Ray is a cult and all I do is talk about Ray says this and Ray says that.  I told him he was way off base and that I follow Jesus Christ and not Ray.  And he said then do that, why do you need Ray.  I turned to my husband and asked him to please defend me and he wouldn't.  The rest of the ride home was in silence.

I just now asked my husband why he wouldn't defend me, to which he replied that the subject of Ray was irrelevant to the initial conversation.  I told him I wanted him to tell our son that Ray is not a cult and that he should have backed me up so that our son didn't think I was involved in a cult.  His reaction to that was just to laugh and continue making his coffee!  I walked away.

I had asked him a while ago to show unity with me on the subject of BT and Ray's teachings so that the kids would see that this was not just some passing fancy of mine.  I think it is important so that if and when the kids hear me say something regarding the knowledge of truth, they don't dismiss it.  They know their father is a very intelligent man and if he were to express agreement with me the kids would be more apt to respect my words.

When I walked away, I thought to myself, if this keeps up, it could be a thorn in my marriage.  I am getting very annoyed with my husbands attitude.  He spends hours playing flight simulator, reading history books, watching the history and discovery channels and then when I ask him to read or listen to something from BT it's a bother to him.  I don't just want him to be like-minded, I need him to be.  I am finding it difficult to be alone (despite the forum) in my quest.

Thanks for listening.

Eileen

[mharrell08]

My wife is not converted either so I know how you feel.

Luke 12:51-53  Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Matt 10:34-36  Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's [mankind: including women] foes shall be they of his own household.


You and your family will be in our prayers.


Hope this helps,

Marques

[Jackie Lee]

OH Dear Eileen, I have no advice but can say when it comes to my belief I do my best to say nothing.
My sister asked me what I believed, so I wrote down how all would be saved, also God is a God of love.
I took some inserts of Ray's papers and hand wrote them since I don't have a printer.
This was the nail driven in the coffin as far as a relationship between us, she told my mother now they both think I really am screwed up.
Once in a great while I will mention something to my husband and I do believe he is thinking on no freewill.
As much as I would like to talk with him about BT I know I can't.
If I mentioned Ray's name I know he would say you are listening to all those nuts on computer, it makes no difference if you have scripture proof,  he just don't want to hear it.
I do understand but for me to keep peace is to not say anything.
God will work it out in time.

[EKnight]

Thanks Marques,

I just quoted those same scriptures to him yesterday but in reference to my mother and brothers and sisters, not realizing that it was applicable to him as well.

He stopped going to church when I did but I still sense in him a feeling of loss toward the "physical rituals of the church".  At this point it doesn't even seem like God is dragging/drawing him so I suppose I have a long wait to have him like-minded unless of course God pulls another Saul/Paul conversion  .  You never know.

Eileen

[Kat]

Hi eileen,

I think God may be showing you that you must stand on your own, with the spirit of Christ, indwelling of course.  But your husband must not be someone you 'need' to lean on.  This truth is between you and God and only Christ should be the support you need.

Well we never know what lies ahead, so have hope.  But I think it would be a good idea to drop mentioning Ray's name since it seems to break the peace.  What you could do is to continue to express what you believe, but just put it in your own words and maybe not even mention BT either.  After all if you are embracing these beliefs they do become yours and you should gain their respect because they see Christ living in you.

Now it would be nice to have a mate that believes this truth, so as to share and study these things together, but I don't think that is usually the case.  My hushand did not attend church with me all the years I went, which is probably a blessing now.  But he has no interest in this truth, so why case my pearls before swine?  But I think I still make a big difference in this family, by how I act and react with them and certainly by what I say.  I do think it is these everyday life experiences that show us how we are progressing in being made into His image.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Triton]

Eileen,

I can not tell you how to handle your situation, but what I can do is to let you know mine a little.
Perhaps you can find some comfort in knowing that there are others, perhaps more than we might think, who are in the same or even more challenging situations.

My wife grew up a Taoist. I have very little knowledge of her previous religion seeing that I grew up in South Africa where, as far as I know, Taoism is almost non-existent. My wife then got 'saved' and we both attended the same church here in Taiwan, which is run by a couple who are both Baptist/Evangelical trained from the States.

It's now been almost two years since my 'rebirth' into the truth, as we come to learn it here on BT. And only a few months since I have quit my duties at 'church' and stopped attending their services and all other social events.

My wife still longs for the fellowship. And although she says that some things don't feel right at the church, she still attends from time to time. Less and less though. It's probably because of my lack of support. This has gotten us into a couple of arguments.

What makes the whole situation difficult is the fact that English is neither my, nor my wife's first language. I'm much more comfortable in it than she is though. Any discussion, and especially, when the Bible with things like allegory, physical, interpretations and so on is thrown into the conversation, it becomes a recipe for disaster. We have a language and culture barrier which we need to get around before we can even start to find any common ground, when discussing the TRUTH we learn here. But over time, I can say that it is getting better. Perhaps because the 'church' is not a such big influence anymore.

We don't have any kids, but I can understand how you would want your husband to stand by you.

I think Marques gave very appropriate verses above. I do believe those verses. They give some comfort. But honestly, it can get really lonely.

Just before I end. I always talk of the "teaching on Bibletruths" and don't mention Ray's name, for fear that it might come across that I might be following a man's teaching instead of the Word's teaching.

So Eileen, know that it is GOD's purpose. If it's tough, we can tell HIM that. We know that it is not in vain.

I hope you can find some comfort in my response.

Paul

[EKnight]

Thank you all for your replies and concern.  It is a comfort knowing that others are in the same situation.

Unfortunately, no one seems to notice a change in me which probably means that I only know the truth and I am not living it.  I am not the light of Christ and this saddens and discourages me. Believe me, it is not my will.  I want to be living proof but apparently that is not the case as of yet. 

Eileen

[EKnight]

You feel great learning about the Spirit, and you feel fantastic about the TRUTHS and Glorified News given you insight to your Life meaning and purpose, remember also no one likes a braggart

Win then over with your Love and compassion, just do not drowned them in it. In due time they will either learn to swim with you in the  Spirit or walk along the shore as you swim in the Spirit. either way we walk in the same direction

Well said Rodger.

Eileen

[Marky Mark]

Eileen,

  I feel for you,this Spiritual journey in which we take every day as we walk with the Lord can be very trying and lonely.But,truth be told I would not have it any other way . We all can rest assured that our Father is doing the dragging, not ones own intentions.All is of God the Father and eventually, all will be healed. Even though at times we wish all our loved ones could be at a Spiritual awakening at the same moment,our all knowing and powerful Father has His own plans , which we as believers and non believers alike will follow.

   Sometimes when I'm lonely I think of this poem and remember who and what we are in our time of need.


One night a man had a dream.
He dreamed he was walking along
the beach with god.

Across the dark sky flashed scenes from his life.
For each scene, he noticed
two sets of footprints in the sand,
one belonging to him and the other to god.

When the last scene of his life flashed before him,
he looked back at the footprints in the sand.
He noticed that many times along the path of his life
there was only one set of footprints.
He also noticed that it happened at the
very lowest and saddest times in his life.
This bothered him and he questioned god about it.

"God, you said that once I decided to follow you,
you'd walk with me all the way.
But I have noticed that during the most
troublesome times in my life there is
only one set of footprints.
I don't understand why when I needed you most
you would leave me."

God replied "My precious, precious child,
I love you and would never leave you.
During your times of trial and suffering,
when you see only one set of footprints in the sand,
it was then that I carried you."

Ken Brown



Peace...   Mark

[aqrinc]

Eileen,

Have no fear, you are in like company here on BT. My wife thinks i am caught up in a cult of Ray,
she prays for me to be saved from it. My friends won't listen, my mother (JW) thinks i am lost;
as do most of my siblings.

It is exactly as The Scriptures have warned us long before.

Psa 121 (CLV)
1 I am lifting my eyes to the mountains; From where shall my help come?
2 My help is from Yahweh, Maker of the heavens and earth."
3 He shall certainly not allow your foot to slip; Your Guardian shall certainly not slumber.
4 Behold, He is neither slumbering nor sleeping, The Guardian of Israel."
5 Yahweh is your Guardian; Yahweh is your Protecting Shade at your right hand.
6 By day the sun shall not smite you, Nor the moon by night."
7 Yahweh Himself shall guard you from all peril; He shall guard your soul.
8 Yahweh Himself shall guard your going forth and your coming in, Henceforth and unto the eon."


Marques show's it, i think for us and all who would heed and Do What The Lord Jesus Say's.
That is why we call Him Lord.

george.

My wife is not converted either so I know how you feel.

Luke 12:51-53  Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Matt 10:34-36  Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's [mankind: including women] foes shall be they of his own household.


You and your family will be in our prayers.


Hope this helps,

Marques

[EKnight]

Thank you marky mark and George.

Sometimes I wonder if I am being led astray and then I reflect on how I was led here when I was praying for God to help me (I did take a slight detour), and it brings to mind these scriptures:

Luke 11:

9 "So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
10 "For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it will be opened.
11 "Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he?
12 "Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he?
13 "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"

So I trust in God.

Eileen

[Beloved]

Eileen you say BT is causing a wedge and perhaps it is...You asked your husband to support you in a statement about Ray...He did not.  I agree with marques and Rodgers suggestion but would like to add a little more dimension

You are not following Ray...You are following the Truth of God. I see no reason why you cannot  submit to your husband on this particular point. If you REST in the Sovereignty of God always, then you who know is right and that God is in control of everything.  That is what submission of a wife to a husband is. Because we know who really is in control.   Therethen be no need for notches on the belt.  There is no win or lose.

Study and become stronger. You say that he and others cannot see Christ living in you. Then allow God to work more on that.  

One does not have to jump into every argument.  I also like what Rodgers says, whether is is the socrates method or not.  Rather than telling them something about the scriptures.  Ask him to prove or defend something that contradicts.

It sounds however that your husband might be enjoying his feasting on the carnal things (TV and history) right now and that he does not want God in his life. So your questions need to focus on the things that he is in to.  Why did God allow that or this to happen in history....Listen .... think, and  study the scriptures about what he answers and then come back with more questions  Eileen Have you ever noticed how God himself asks questions. Like.......Where are you Adam etc etc ?  I think that is why it is the only way rabbinical arguments are done.


On Rays web site he states the purpose of his website

There is, however, a two-fold commission in teaching the Gospel of Christ:
"...that he [the elders] may be able to [1] entreat with sound teaching as well as to [2] expose those who contradict" (Titus 1:9, Concordant


Eileen you are learning sound doctrine here,  so you may have continue to do that in silence and then you will have to allow God to show you the moments when to expose those who contradict.

Using questions rather than statement puts all the onus on them. It allows the Holy Spirit to work on them if that is His purpose. When he gives some silly illogical answer, those words will convictshim, and it will play over and over inside of him. It also marks him.


Also Meditate on these

(Rom 16:17)  Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. (in your spiritual house)

(Rom 16:18)  For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

(Rom 16:19)  For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

(Rom 16:20)  And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.


I am sure that George and Marques use this technique in reverse, being that they are the head of their physical families. never the less, they still also need to be gentle and not over bearing knowing that our Good and Merciful Father is in control of everything.

Always Remember .....You are not alone, Christ in you ...and He is your witness. Let the Holy Spirit guide you and take hold and stifle any carnal part that wants to win  petty arguments that only puffs up our own pride. When your husband get the point...then the glory does indeed go to God.

Beloved

beloved

[Marlene]

Eileen, When, God dragged me out of my last church. My Mother and Husband left to, because our pastor made a personal attack on me. Now, I know that My Mother misses the friendships. My Husband , never talks about it. But, my Mother told me she would never want me to go against what God has told me to do. But, she is 88 and gets lonely although she lives with me. My Husband, actually seems happier in some ways. But, he never has been that interested in reading the Bible. Actually, he never had been one to read a lot. Now, I see many beautiful traits in him. He actually is the Husband, God wanted for me. He does not get angry when I spend time with God or coming in here. Now, Yes, I would love my whole family to believe like me.

The scriptures Marques gave is something I have always read over and over when I feel lonely and left out. My Husbands family I am sure think I have gone off my rocker. Being they knew our last Pastor Lied at the Pulpit and also set himself in Gods seat. He personally attacked Me and My Husband. We left but his family all stayed. Its hard when we are together. I just don't discuss it with them. We have a wedding to go to for his neice in April. This is going to be hard. But, she  choose to not have it at that church. She choose her great-great great grandmothers church. So, this makes it a little easier on me.

There was a lady from our church who always sent me little emails while I was ill for a year. But, she stopped as soon as we wanted our membership dropped. Well, I got a shock the other day. She found out that I had surgery and mailed me a get well card. I am sure my husbands family must have had them praying for me. Kind, of made me sick to think she did that to me and now sends a card after a year latter. But, I dread the wedding shower and every thing. So, yes it can draw a wedge. We have the scriptures from God that Marques showed.

The thing I focus on ,when I feel lonely, is where God has brought me. The truths he choose to share with me. How, he has given me eyes to see and ears to here. I am always amazed to see how many new people enter each week in here even with Ray not being well. That, really gives me something to shout about. It truly is God who drags us here. I focus on all of you and how we can share our hearts with each other. That, makes things better for me.

Well, I could go on and on about all my blessings. But, just know our prayers for one another is a great blessings. I will keep you in my  prayers. I just thank God every day for all of you.

In His Love,
Marlene

[britt]

Well stated Marlene and Beloved! I hope both of you are arond the next time I need advice. 

P.S. I am the black sheep in my family as well. 

Peace,

Britt

[smeacham]

...
I still sense in him a feeling of loss toward the "physical rituals of the church".
...
Eileen

I think that a lot of us still feel that loss from time to time.  For me it isn't really the rituals.  I really don't know WHAT it is that I miss, but sometimes I still do.

Steven

[cjwood]

eileen,
i too have a husband who is not at all open to hearing any of what God is teaching me through the BT website, with ray as the vessel to portray the Truths in a way that is so easy for us to understand, but is often times impossible for our most dear loved ones to see. but we know that is of God. we can only continue to read and study from this website and from the scriptures, knowing that God has given us an awesome privilege to see with our spiritual eyes things that even the old time prophets never saw. but that too is of God. i can relate however to the frustration in wanting to have my husband be like minded with me on these life changing truths. but, he just isn't. i used to cry out to God that i needed my husband to pray with me, knowing the power involved when praying according to God's will. but instead, God told me through His comforting spirit within me that i am to keep my eyes on Christ, and to respect and honor my husband as the head of my household (even if he is an unbeliever). it is truly a very hard thing to do and is many, many times a lonely path to walk. but i do NOT walk it alone. God and Christ walk with me. my husband never says anything about the time i spend reading and studying on BT. the only thing i ever mention to him is about the diverse group of friends i have made on the forum. he would never understand if i called all of you my brothers and sisters in Christ, as he doesn't even believe in Christ Jesus. but God's plan for me (and you) included our marriages to our unsupportive, unbelieving spouses. many times in the past i too thought of this unequally yoking together of me and my husband as a thorn in our marriage, but, i now know that it is only a thorn if i see it as such. in truth, it is where God has placed us. i can't ever blame my husband for my not continuing in the scriptures or not continuing to study what ray has written. that is my responsibility, to continue to study to show myself approved unto God. no one else in my family is interested in learning to Absolute Truths of the scriptures, except my daughter. she is the only one i can talk to about what God is teaching me, and the only one that has read anything on BT. so for that small glimmer of her interest, i am thankful. but i believe that God has brought all of us to this website and to this forum because He knew and knows in His infinite Wisdom that we would be outcasts in our earthly families, and He is teaching us that our truest family is those who believe the evangel of Jesus Christ. please take heart in knowing that many of us on this forum walk the same path as you eileen, that too is of God.

claudia

[Ninny]

Eileen, please keep your eyes and mind fixed on the Lord. That's all I can add. Just be yourself and don't push anyone! Keep all these things in your heart and know that God is in control. I know what it's like to be a loner in your own family! Lots of us know what it's like. That's why we are important to each other. I'll be praying for your strength!
Kathy

[aqrinc]

Amen Claudia, what a lonely walk it feels like sometimes.

Eileen,

It appears brutal to us now, but it is necessary for us now; otherwise GOD Would have us do something Else.
Think on this though, how much more Horrible it would be if we still feared (Hell and eternal torture for them).

Joh 6:57-71(CEV)
57  The living Father sent me, and I have life because of him. Now everyone who eats my flesh will live because of me.
58  The bread that comes down from heaven isn't like what your ancestors ate. They died, but whoever eats this bread will live forever.
59  Jesus was teaching in a Jewish place of worship in Capernaum when he said these things.
60  Many of Jesus' disciples heard him and said, "This is too hard for anyone to understand."
61  Jesus knew that his disciples were grumbling. So he asked, "Does this bother you?
62  What if you should see the Son of Man go up to heaven where he came from?
63  The Spirit is the one who gives life! Human strength can do nothing. The words that I have spoken to you are from that life-giving Spirit.
64  But some of you refuse to have faith in me." Jesus said this, because from the beginning he knew who would have faith in him. He also knew which one would betray him.
65  Then Jesus said, "You cannot come to me, unless the Father makes you want to come. That is why I have told these things to all of you."
66  Because of what Jesus said, many of his disciples turned their backs on him and stopped following him.
67  Jesus then asked his twelve disciples if they were going to leave him.
68  Simon Peter answered, "Lord, there is no one else that we can go to! Your words give eternal life.
69  We have faith in you, and we are sure that you are God's Holy One."
70  Jesus told his disciples, "I chose all twelve of you, but one of you is a demon!"
71  Jesus was talking about Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. He would later betray Jesus, even though he was one of the twelve disciples.

george .

[EKnight]

Thanks Kathy, Claudia, Steve, Marlene Beloved.

This has been a most encouraging thread and although I hesitated posting, I am glad that I did.  

Eileen

[smeacham]

Eileen,

My wife has come right along with me as God takes me down this road of learning and understanding.  However, like your husband, she isn't to fond of Ray.  I think it's his voice, or the way he speaks.  I've learned to not share directly from Ray's teachings.  I simply incorporate these truths in my conversations and in our family Bible Studies.  It's worked great, and it demonstrates that these are deeply and confidently held beliefs, rather than from "some guy on the Internet."

Actually, this is how I deal with everybody regarding this, from friends and family to coworkers and religious fools.  Talking about these things is as natural as breathing these days, and I do it in a non-teaching, non-preaching way (usually).  People simply know that that's "who I am."  Except for the "religious fools," people take it in stride.

Steve