bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Need Account Help?  Email bibletruths.forum@gmail.com   

Forgotten password reminders does not work. Contact the email above and state what you want your password changed to. (it must be at least 8 characters)

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Forsaken Me!  (Read 2949 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

galatians22067

  • Guest
Forsaken Me!
« on: February 12, 2009, 01:39:02 PM »

Hi Everyone,

Can someone help me interpret this verse.

Mat 27:46  And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

What does Ray say about this verse.

Thanks,
Matt
Logged

aqrinc

  • Guest
Re: Forsaken Me!
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2009, 04:14:06 PM »


Hi Matt,

Here is a complete paper that Ray wrote on the subject:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6719.0.html

Excerpt from: Was Christ Made Sin.

Bible study Oct. 2006 - PART 1
(scroll down for PART 2)

                               WAS CHRIST MADE SIN ?

You only understand these things if you have the Spirit of God. 
Because of those who donít obviously understand them and thatís why Iím giving this talk.  I going to deal with the subject today that people without the Spirit of God do not understand, can not understand, and will not understand.  Iím going to give you the Scriptural facts today, so that if the Spirit of God is working with you, you will understand it, okay. 

So I heard this message of Coy Brockís from the internet, his talk was entitled ĎHow Christ Was Made Sin.í 
But Iím not going to deal with how Christ was made sin, because that very title alone is total unscriptural heresy and blasphemy.  The title of my talk is ĎWas Christ Made Sin?í  I can emphatically tell you, NO He was not! 
They will say, Ďwell but donít we have a Scripture that says He was?í  As a matter of fact we donít, we have a Bible verse in the King James Bible and in many other modern Bibles that says ďChrist was made sin.Ē  That is not an accurate translation of the Scripture.  All be it you will find those words in the Greek manuscript.  And they will say, Ďwell then how can it not be an accurate translation, if those are the words that are found?í  Itís because there is more understanding that one needs to have to translate the Scripture, then to just look at a word and say what does the word, by itself mean. 

People are dumb founded when they learn how much is involves in translating from one language to another.  There are people as naive as I was when I was 15 or 20 years old.  They believe that you can take any language and whatever it says in that language, you can take each word and what does that word mean in the English language, then you put that English word there.  Then you take the second wordÖ maybe itís Chinese or maybe itís Russian or Hebrew or maybe itís Greek.  But then you take the second word and what does it mean, in English how do you define that word, and so letís put the English equivalent of that definition next.  Then letís take the next word.  Therefore you have a word for word, perfect translation of whatever language you are trying to translate.  Correct?  Wrong paleface, not even close. 
Iíll say this again and Iíve said it many times, there is no such thing as a word for word translation of one language into another language.  It doesnít exist.

Also read the paper below to get more information on the subject.

The Christian Hell is a Christian hoax

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D1.htm

george. :)

Logged

mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: Forsaken Me!
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2009, 04:33:32 PM »

Hi Everyone,

Can someone help me interpret this verse.

Mat 27:46  And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

What does Ray say about this verse.

Thanks,
Matt


Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2775.0.html):

> How are you doing Ray? Blessed I believe.
>
> I really appreciate the research that you have submitted yourself to under
> GOD's hand. I'm striving for such myself, (no flattery intended). I don't
> yet consider myself learned, but I'm aware of the holy spirits work in my
> life. I have a question for you if you will?, I have been hearing for a
> long time that when Jesus died on the cross he was seperated from the
> father, i don't find that in the scriptures atleast not in the sense that
> they are suggesting. They (ministers) constantly say that GOD turned his
> back on Jesus on the cross, I disagree with that... Jesus said I and the
> father are one. Even as Paul said i am convinced that nothing shall seperate
> us from the Love of GOD. Even though Jesus did go to the place of Sheol,
> how is it possible for him to take the keys from the Devil without authority
> upon hi gh, for without the spirit of GOD who is Jesus? There is another
> issue bothering me how they say Jesus said "Father why hast though forsaken
> me...?" which ties into the first question...Jesus was constantly aware, all
> through the gospel you hear him saying "its not my time yet," "Its not my
> time". If Jesus knew the intentions of GOD doesn't it seem like doubt for
> him to ask why have you forsaken me, considering that he was completely
> aware what the Fathers will was, and what was going to happen? Or was that
> the whole purpose of him saying it, to get us to identify with the
> sepration? Cause to me that seems like something the devil would say not
> GOD.
> Directly after he said that statement, He screamed and there was and
> earthquake, like something in the spirit realm took place, and then he says
> like it was nothing "It is done..." I think theres something else behind
> tha t But i don't believe for a second GOD turned his back on His only
> Begotten son, am I am wrong on this?
>
> May GOD further you...


No, David, neither do I believe that God "turned HIs back on His only Son."
There are those who teach it, however. Jesus quoted the first few words found
is Psalm 22
which goes on to describe just Who the Messiah was to be and the
purpose for Him being crucified.
God be with you,
Ray


I'm sorry Matt, but I didn't want to copy the entire Psalms 22 as it is somewhat lengthy. But I'm sure you can look up on your time and/or through E-Sword.


Hope this helps,

Marques
Logged

Harry

  • Guest
Re: Forsaken Me!
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2009, 07:50:43 PM »


  Hi Matt,

  As I have studied this subject it has become clear to me that although Jesus never sinned he was punished as though he did. There is the the bronze serpent that Moses was instructed to make which was a foreshadow of Christ. I think the scriptures bear out the fact that God the Father was the one to exact the payment for sin from Christ. We have the example of Abraham being the one to lift the knife to kill Isaac. Who alone but God could know the price due for sin?  David said in Ps 51:4  Against thee and thee only have I sinned ( Making reference to God).  Job chapter 16 seems to be making prophetic references to Christs suffering ( ie Christ being pierced and having his gall spilled on the ground ) If this section is referencing Christ's suffering it appears that the Father played a much more painful role in our salvation then we may have realized.

  Harry
Logged

aqrinc

  • Guest
Re: Forsaken Me!
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2009, 07:52:29 PM »

Hi Matt,

In case you haven't yet looked it up; here is the entire Psalm 22. Good question btw,
it made me search out other places where this question was asked and answered.
Following the principle; no Prophecy of The Scriptures is It's own interpretation,
this is a great example of ways to use Esword to find your witnesses.


Psa 22 
1  My God, my God, why have You forsaken me, and are far from my deliverance, and from the words of my groaning?
2  O my God, I cry in the daytime, but You do not answer; and in the night, and am not silent.
3  But You are holy, enthroned on the praises of Israel.
4  Our fathers trusted in You; they trusted, and You delivered them.
5  They cried to You, and were delivered; they trusted in You, and were not ashamed.
6  But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised by the people.
7  All who see Me mock me; they shoot out the lip; they shake the head, saying,
8  He trusted on Jehovah; let Him deliver Him; let Him rescue Him, since He delights in Him!
9  For You are He who took Me out of the womb, causing Me to trust while on My mother's breasts.
10  I was cast on You from the womb; You are My God from My mother's belly.
11  Be not far from Me; for trouble is near, for there is none to help.
12  Many bulls have circled around Me; strong bulls Of Bashan have surrounded Me.
13  They opened wide their mouths on Me, like a ripping and a roaring lion.
14  I am poured out like water, and all My bones are spread apart; My heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of My bowels.
15  My strength is dried up like a potsherd, and My tongue clings to My jaws;
16  and You have brought Me into the dust of death. For dogs have circled around Me; the band of spoilers have hemmed Me in, piercers of My hands and My feet.
17  I can count all My bones; they look and stare at Me.
18  They divide My garments among them and cast lots for My clothing.
19  But You, O Jehovah, be not far from Me; O My strength, hurry to help Me!
20  Deliver My soul from the sword, My only one from the dog's hand.
21  Save Me from the lion's mouth; from the wild oxen's horns. You have answered Me.
22  I will declare Your name to My brothers; in the midst of the congregation I will praise You.
23  You who fear Jehovah, praise Him; all of you, the seed of Jacob, glorify Him; and fear Him all the seed of Israel.
24  For He has not despised nor hated the affliction of the afflicted; and He has not hidden His face from him, but when he cried to Him, He heard.
25  My praise shall be of You in the great congregation; I will pay My vows before the ones who fear Him.
26  The meek shall eat and be satisfied; those who seek Jehovah shall praise Him; your heart shall live forever.
27  All the ends of the world shall remember and turn to Jehovah; and all the families of the nations shall worship before You.
28  For the kingdom is Jehovah's; and He is the ruler among the nations.
29  All the fat ones on the earth shall eat and worship; all those who go down to the dust shall bow before Him; and none can keep alive his own soul.
30  A seed shall serve Him; it shall be spoken of Jehovah to the coming generation.
31  They shall come, and shall declare His righteousness to a people that shall yet be born, that He has done this.

george. :)

« Last Edit: February 12, 2009, 07:54:27 PM by aqr »
Logged

mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: Forsaken Me!
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2009, 08:14:09 PM »


  Hi Matt,

  As I have studied this subject it has become clear to me that although Jesus never sinned he was punished as though he did. There is the the bronze serpent that Moses was instructed to make which was a foreshadow of Christ. I think the scriptures bear out the fact that God the Father was the one to exact the payment for sin from Christ. We have the example of Abraham being the one to lift the knife to kill Isaac. Who alone but God could know the price due for sin?  David said in Ps 51:4  Against thee and thee only have I sinned ( Making reference to God).  Job chapter 16 seems to be making prophetic references to Christs suffering ( ie Christ being pierced and having his gall spilled on the ground ) If this section is referencing Christ's suffering it appears that the Father played a much more painful role in our salvation then we may have realized.

  Harry


Excerpt from 'Was Christ Made Sin?' (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6719.0.html):

Did Jesus Christ ever become sin?  No.  Was He a sin offering?  Absolutely.  Thatís too hard for some.
What have I been reading in this dirty little religion, they say the wrath of God was upon Jesus Christ, He was marred in the handÖ first He was conceived in sin, then He was birthed in antiquity, then He was marred in the hand of His own maker, then He had the wrath of God poured out upon Him for His whole life.  Then when Christ rebelled against Him, supposedly in the garden and He crushed Him to death.  This is worse than dirty religion, this is blasphemy like Iíve never seen the likes of before.  This really is evil heresy and has not one Scripture to back up anything they say.  Not one.  Itís not that they have some and are wrong in a few, they have not one.

John 10:17  Therefore doth My Father love Me, because I lay down My life because I lay down My life, that I might take it again.
v. 18  No man takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself.

How many times does Jesus Christ have to say that before we believe Him?  At no place in His life did He have to be crucified.  Where did He reach a point in His life where He said My Father is going to kill Me regardless, that I have no more choice in the matter?  He was an adult man when He said, ďI lay down My lifeÖ no man takes it from Me, but I lay it down Myself.Ē
Where do we read as they say, Ďbut the truth of the matter was that this is all false, Jesus Christ was lying to us.  He incurred the death penalty because He was born sin and needs to die and the wrath of God is going to be poured out upon Him.í  What utter foolish nonsense.



Marques
Logged

Dave UK

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 292
    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1044292715&ref=profile#/home.php?ref=home
Re: Forsaken Me!
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2009, 08:10:16 AM »

Hi
I have been pondering along similar lines regarding this subject.I have been asking the question 'was God angry with Christ at the cross?' Having recently read a book where it was suggested, that God's anger was poured out on Christ at the cross , hence his feeling of isolation.It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense for God to become angry with Christ particularly as he was voluntarily laying down his life as previously stated, and the scripture also states

And he who sent me is with me. He has not left me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to him John 8:29

What is the best way to answer those who believe and teach that God's anger was poured out on Christ during the crucifixion ?

Dave
Logged

Beloved

  • Guest
Re: Forsaken Me!
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2009, 12:15:08 PM »

The way I see this line being interpreted is that in a way it is a living parable.

Here are the religious people and a rabble of people taunting Him and ridiculing Jesus while he hung on the cross. They were not satisfied that they were having him killed they had to redicule Him during the process.

Mat 26:61  And said, this fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.

Mat 27:40  And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.

Mar 14:58  We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands

(Mat 27:25)  Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

(Joh 19:7)  The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

(Joh 19:15)  But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.   (God gave them a King after the judges and now they pledge their loyalty to this one)

Ecc 10:13  The beginning of the words of his mouth is foolishness: and the end of his talk is mischievous madness.

The sky had turned dark, the people who would have been killing their lambs could not because "The Lamb" was being slain. This darkness was their state of mind just like the orthodox church and unbelievers... they were and are blind and deaf.

Jesus quoted Psalm 22 and pointed to himself. They did not understand then or now and thought he was calling Elijah or had "become sin", The one thief, was the only one who saw at least that he deserved death.

These folks knew this pslam well and should have understood the reference.


(Psa 22:)  To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.

My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
(Psa 22:7 KJVR)  All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
(Psa 22:8 KJVR)  He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
(Psa 22:14 KJVR)  I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
(Psa 22:15 KJVR)  My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
(Psa 22:16 KJVR)  For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
(Psa 22:17 KJVR)  I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
(Psa 22:18 KJVR)  They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.(Psa 22:19 KJVR)  But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
(Psa 22:22 KJVR)  I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
(Psa 22:23 KJVR)  Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.

The intent of the word of Jesus is very clear

(Psa 22:24 KJVR)  For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

(Psa 22:25 KJVR)  My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
(Psa 22:26 KJVR)  The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live forever.
(Psa 22:27 KJVR)  All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
(Psa 22:28 KJVR)  For the kingdom is the LORD's: and he is the governor among the nations.
(Psa 22:29 KJVR)  All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
(Psa 22:30 KJVR)  A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
(Psa 22:31 KJVR)  They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

Remembering the rest of the verse must have comforted Jesus. He always knew his purpose and this cry was not a call for help. Imagine how the apostles must have meditated on these lines...after the Resurrection after they remembered what He had said to them

Joh 10:17  Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

Joh 10:15  As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep

Joh 10:18  No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

There is a song that has a lyric, that Jesus did not need the nails, His love would have kept Him on the cross. Jesus was fulfilling the plan of the Father.

Joh 5: 36-39 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. Search the scriptures; for in them you think you have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Luk 23:34  And Jesus said, `Father, forgive them, for they have not known what they do;' and parting his garments they cast a lot.

The First fruit was put back on the tree and the source of the clothing that was provided for Adam and Eve was revealed, It is not the cross but His blood that was given. It is the covering of righteousness that is needed.

Joh 10:4  And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.    And what is he saying?

Mat 16:24  Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me

The cross is what todays church will not take up, they want blessings prosperity wealth and health. They cannot do this ....yet.


Joh 10:27  My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Again God's word will not come back void.

Joh 2:19  Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Forty years later their temple was destroyed by the Romans, it was a empty building even when Jesus was there. All of the Aaronic priest were gone when Jesus lived.

Eph 2:21  In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto a holy temple in the Lord:

1Pe 2:5  Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Co 6:19  What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Rev 21:22  And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

Mat 13:11  And he answering said to them that--`To you it hath been given to know the secrets of the reign of the heavens, and to these it hath not been given,

(Mat 13:13)  Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

(Mat 13:14)  And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

(Mat 13:15)  For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Like Ray teaches it is all parable and The Truth is in the Sum of His Word

beloved
« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 09:29:34 PM by Beloved »
Logged

mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: Forsaken Me!
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2009, 12:40:35 PM »

Amen Beloved...well said.  :)



Marques
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.099 seconds with 26 queries.