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Author Topic: Repentance  (Read 3386 times)

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aqrinc

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Repentance
« on: February 15, 2009, 07:25:02 PM »

This topic was addressed by Ray a while ago. At the time i read it my thoughts were,
i already have read the Bible many times; so what is the big deal. Well the big deal is
reading, and then doing, the things that Ray counselled have really been a huge deal.

This is not for stories or confessions but to ask any member that has listened to the
audio and read this paper completely. Has it made a difference in your understanding
and discernmernt of The Scriptures. For me it is an emphatic yes, i would love to get
some feedback from others.


Mat 3: 1-2
1  In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea,
2  and saying, Repent, for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Mat 4:17 
From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, Repent! For the kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Mat 11:20 
Then He began to upbraid the cities in which most of His mighty works were done, because they did not repent.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3709.msg27923.html#msg27923

Excerpt from: Repentance----- Nashville Conference 2005

Who knows what the first word was that Jesus Christ said in his ministry?  According to Matthew it was, “Repent.”  So if that’s the first word out of our Savior’s mouth, maybe we ought to look at it a little bit…

Repent means to turn around, to go the other way.  Whatever you are doing that’s wrong and sinful and evil and carnal and worldly and everything else, you turn around, you “repent” and you go the other direction.  The scriptures mention a couple of words:

Matthew 18:3 talks about being converted
Matthew 19:28 talks about being regenerated
1Peter 1:3 talks about being born again
John 3:3 talks about being born again

What are all those things?  They’re all one and the same, there’s no difference.  Being begotten anew, being born again, being regenerated, being converted…they are all the same.  And this is what we all want to do, so that we can take on more knowledge and live more Godly, and reach this goal.  We all sin.  Sin has to go through three things:  cleansing, repentance, forgiveness.  Does anybody know the order of these things?

This is the order of what happens to sin:

1.   Forgiveness
2.   Repentance
3.   Cleansing

(God does not cleanse anybody of sins they haven’t repented of.)

Forgiveness comes first and isn’t that interesting.  Jesus Christ was slain from the foundation of the world and why was he slain?  Why did Christ die?  The scriptures say Christ died for our sins.  That’s the simplest statement.  But there is a little bit more.  I want you to notice this:

This is the audio version; this is priceless as a listening learning tool'

Audio Download link
: http://bible-truths.com/audio/Ray_Repent%201.mp3

george. :)

« Last Edit: February 16, 2009, 12:33:35 AM by aqr »
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EKnight

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Re: Repentance
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2009, 11:36:02 PM »

Hi George,
 
I just finished reading the whole "Repentance" transcript.  I think I have read it before but probably had many distractions.  Anyway,  great reading.  I have to say, that at this point, I am exactly where Ray was in the first nine paragraphs of this transcript.  Up to the point where he says that God just started taking away his sinful burdens---that has not happened to me yet.

I hope Ray is right when he says that he hopes the foolishness of his preaching accelerates the process of cleansing.  :)

So, to whoever reads this thread, read the whole transcript which George has linked, it is truly humbling and well worth the time to read or re-read.

Eileen
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daywalker

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Re: Repentance
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2009, 01:22:22 AM »

Hey george,

The first time I listened to Repentance, We Are ALL Guilty of All, and How Hard Is Getting Saved, it was very humbling, rather humiliating for me. Ray promised to bring me down a few notches, and yep, he didn't fall short!

We want to take credit for who we are as a person, and our character, but the Truth is, it's only by the "grace of God" we are who we are! How many times I heard/read that verse before, but it wasn't until late summer last year when I did this study, and read that passage again that I got punched in my mouth by them.  :o

It's amazing reading Scriptures, that I've read so many times, and now I'm seeing things I didn't before, and it boggles my mind!

As far as where I'm at, God has taken a few "sins" away that I've struggled a long time with, but ironically I feel like I have more sin than ever... probably cause I'm seeing things in me that I used to overlook or 'shrug off'.

I used to compare myself with others.. But ever since I started comparing myself with Jesus Christ, that's when I started realizing just "How Hard Is Getting Saved"..


- Daywalker
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cjwood

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Re: Repentance
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2009, 01:36:18 AM »

As far as where I'm at, God has taken a few "sins" away that I've struggled a long time with, but ironically I feel like I have more sin than ever... probably cause I'm seeing things in me that I used to overlook or 'shrug off'.


daywalker, this statement you made hit me right between the eyes, my spiritual eyes of understanding that is. i have been feeling the EXACT way lately. thank you Father for working through my brothers words to confirm in my spirit what You have been showing me in my heart.

love in Christ,
claudia
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Repentance
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2009, 01:44:40 AM »

The truth about the order in which God deals with sin is tremendously freeing to me.  Forgiveness>>Repentance>>Cleansing.  I guess I had always had a bit of head-knowledge about that, but my 'religion' never really went beyond 'forgiveness' as if that was the end result and purpose of a life.  You're born, you grow up, you try not to sin, you sin anyway, you confess your sins and accept Jesus into your heart...then you become religious and don't sin as much as those 'other people' do.  Maybe that's not what they taught at seminary, but that's the gist of the message that gets delivered and absorbed.  I 'walked the aisle' so much that it wore the carpet out.  I thought there was something uniquely wrong with me...didn't realize it had to be this way.  

I really can't describe how low I was even mere seconds before clicking on B-T.  And I still don't think anybody looking in on my life would think God was doing anything at all...but I live in my life and I know what He has accomplished so far.  Faith builds.  If repentance is a change of heart, then only God can accomplish it.  If its a change in direction, then only He can drag me that way.  If it is death to self, then He's got to replace the 'me' that dies.  As a witness (not just as a subject) of this in my own life, I am coming to believe that He is able to make me stand, and I am learning to 'cooperate' (if that's the right word).  Not there yet, but at least I can see a time when its true.  For me, that's progress.

Sorry, George....couldn't NOT tell a testimony to answer this one.    
« Last Edit: February 16, 2009, 01:56:47 AM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Marlene

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Re: Repentance
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2009, 02:02:09 AM »

Well, when I read that article and listened to the audio. It made me see just how depraved I really am. We, can look around and say hey I am not that bad.  But, in reality we are. Yes, humble you it does. Right before I found Ray's website I had done something I never dreamed I would do. He put up with it for quite awhile with me. Like hit me with a brick. Well, I did repent and turned from it. I pray I would never be so stupid again. Then, thinking I should go to Hell I wished I could die and go. But, know God brought me to this website. I read like a crazed woman for two days with no sleep. Then, I would go over it and over it.

My Father, who was in church very little.  Once said something to me I never forgot. He said, the easy part is knowing God forgives us. The hard part is the walk. Yes, getting saved is not a walk in the park that is for sure. But, isnt it wonderful he carries us when we can't walk any further.

In His Love,
Marlene
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aqrinc

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Re: Repentance
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2009, 02:25:41 AM »

Eileen, Christopher, Claudia, Dave, Marlene,

Thanks for replying and contributing to this post.

Eileen, i will testify he is right, be sure to download and listen to the audio often.

Christopher, you got punched in the mouth, i was busted, cried first time in years (I think i am tough).

Claudia, what i saw for the first time was ugly, i so need my Lord Jesus Christ for everything now.

Dave, hearing on the audio: Forgiveness>>Repentance>>Cleansing, He Forgave, we Repent, He Cleanse's.

Marlene, it is so humbling to see how really abysmally low we have sunk, and we think we are something, HA.

Let me add just a couple things, since downloading that audio in august of 2008, i have listened to it as
many as 3 times per week. It is so important to this walk we are on today that we be humbled and quickly.
So when The Apostle Paul says:

Rom 7:24  O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? we can understand.

george. :)



« Last Edit: February 16, 2009, 02:34:14 AM by aqr »
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judith collier

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Re: Repentance
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2009, 04:37:02 AM »

I was reading a book by some one and this person said, "all our good God wants is the love of His creatures" and at that moment a zillion light bulbs turned on(knew the bible was true)(I thought it was true before but not like this) and I repented of not loving Him as I should and said, "Oh my God I do love you with all my heart" Something swept through me and I KNEW I was forgiven and His presence stayed with me for days upon end. I have sinced sin many times but never had this happen again. Judy
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aqrinc

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Re: Repentance
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2009, 10:42:32 PM »

Hi Judy,

Did you get a chance to read the paper by Ray or listen to the audio yet. ???


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3709.msg27923.html#msg27923

Audio Download link: http://bible-truths.com/audio/Ray_Repent%201.mp3


Excerpt from: Repentance By L Ray Smith:

The reason that I want to talk about repentance is because repentance is a major door to understanding.  I tried to understand many things before I truly repented.

Now, we repent in increments.  You know, as children you repent.  Your parents spank you, you repent!  And you learn to do things, and you mature.  If you want a good definition of maturity: 

Maturity is a way to act that is more beneficial to yourself and others than a child would act.

So when you are old enough to know about repentance as a teaching of the Church, most of us have gone through some kind of a repentance.  I went through a repentance and a baptism when I was about 24 I think.  And I thought I had repented.  I was baptized (immersed in water).  From that day on I tried to do better because I knew I had done this public thing and I knew I hadn’t done it just for the heck of it.  And I probably made some progress in doing better and living better.  You stop doing some bad things, you start doing some good things.  And I thought, this is what the Christian life is all about.  I’m on my way, I’m doing it.

Unitl one day, I didn’t know when it happened, but looking back, I left my first love.  And that does not necessarily mean your “first love” as in chronological order like first, second, third etc.  It means your “paramount” love, your main love, the FIRST.  What should be first in your life:  Christ.  I left that love, went back into the world, BIG TIME, and then just floundered around. 

I never forgot there was a God.  I never stopped praying. But I was carnal.  You’d think that baptism and repentance was nothing!  I mean, that wasn’t doing anything for me.  I was now in TOTAL carnality.  Wine, women and song.  And I tried to study the bible off and on throughout those years.  I never put it away completely.  It was always there and I was reading it and so on.  But NOTHING…I mean, maybe I could learn some verses, maybe I learned a little about historical settings, some facts and so on, but spiritually I wasn’t going ANYWHERE.  I wasn’t going anywhere…I made a concerted effort to have a good time.  (As best I knew how with what little money I had and so on.)  And there were a few times God even let me make a few dollars.  I got into something once where I was making 40-50 thousand dollars a month and I thought, oh now I’m there!  No…He took that away. 

But then God started to make me feel convicted about my sins that I still had.  But I was convinced you couldn’t overcome them!  You know, when you are in your 50’s and still not able to conquer these sins…when?   How?  Will it ever happen?  I was pretty convinced it wouldn’t happen.  But I’m thinking about these things more and I’m studying.  And then I started finding that some things I was doing I didn’t need to do anymore.  And it isn’t anything I did.  God just took something away from me.  Took away a burden, a sin, a guilty conscience about something.  Just took it away and it was no longer a struggle.  But I never stopped wanting to get rid of it ALL.  That was always there.  Get rid of it all.  (You all want to know what those things were….it doesn’t matter, they’re all the same!)  You know, lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, pride of life….

You can’t take credit for it; in His time He will do it.  If you are going to be one of the few that are actually chosen, then God is going to do it.  So why am I up here telling you if He’s going to do it, just go home and let Him do it!  Right?   Because God uses the “foolishness of teaching”, that’s why.  That’s the only reason I’m up here.  He uses the foolishness of preaching.  Some of you will remember this day.  It will be a turning point in your life!  You’ll say, “that Saturday afternoon Ray was preaching about Repentance, it changed my life forever!”   That is, if God has decided that is what today will do for you…

george :)

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Beloved

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Re: Repentance
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2009, 01:40:23 PM »

I agree that Ray has showed us all something in this paper. Even us here at BT have beams in the eyes and have no reason other than God's mercy towards us to boast or feels superior towards others. Here is a living parable that He pointed out to them at the the time.

(Luk 18:10)  "Two men went up to the Temple to pray," He said; "one being a Pharisee and the other a tax-gatherer.

(Luk 18:11)  The Pharisee, standing erect, prayed as follows by himself: "'O God, I thank Thee that I am not like other people--I am not a thief nor a cheat nor an adulterer, nor do I even resemble this tax-gatherer.

(Luk 18:12)  I fast twice a week. I pay the tithe on all my gains.'

(Luk 18:13)  "But the tax-gatherer, standing far back, would not so much as lift his eyes to Heaven, but kept beating his breast and saying, "'O God, be reconciled to me, sinner that I am.'

(Luk 18:14) "I tell you that this man went home more thoroughly absolved from guilt than the other; for every one who uplifts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be uplifted."

Reading Rays paper in fine and dandy but how long will it take us to assimilate what he has written and have it embedded in our minds. This too is a work of God because it is He that gives to those He chooses, the hunger and determination to persue His Word. All we can do is beg and pray for this.

beloved
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judith collier

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Re: Repentance
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2009, 08:50:59 PM »

Yes, the closer we get to the (son) (sun) the more our defects are apparent. Judy
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Marlene

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Re: Repentance
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2009, 08:58:47 PM »

Yes, the scriptures provided say it all.  We can get puffed up learning the truth, and forget where we come from. I begged God for his truths, before coming in here. I had fallen into a sin that brought me to my knees.  I will never, forget that experience. It keeps me humble. Yes, all we can do is beg God to keep us where we need to be. Its all about being dependent on him and not ourself.  Its ALL Him.

In His Love,
Marlene
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judith collier

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Re: Repentance
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2009, 09:18:42 PM »

I read and listened to that script of Ray's. I couldn't understand how forgiveness came before repentance but now i understand. Without forgiveness there is no need to repent, we would just be stuck eternally in our sins. My experience has always been a God of consuming love, do I always remember that? No. I condemn sometime and repent again. Maybe if we were to show the world that our God was a loving forgiving God instead of making them repent first out of the fear of hell and only that God loves them and His forgiveness was at hand (the good news) the gospel would be everywhere by now. Judy
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aqrinc

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Re: Repentance
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2009, 09:37:41 PM »


These Scriptures in Romans points out why it is impossible for us to understand without
The Spirit Of GOD And Our Lord Jesus Christ doing the Teaching and Guiding. It takes a
whole lot more than we have of ourselves, to even begin to hear The Real Voice Of The
Shepherd (Jesus Christ). There is such a cacophony of noise out there saying he is here
or he is there; but what Saith The Scriptures
.


Rom 10: 1-21
1  Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2  For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3  For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4  For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5  For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6  But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
7  Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8  But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10  For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11  For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12  For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13  For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14  How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15  And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16  But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17  So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18  But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
19  But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
20  But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
21  But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

This Forgiveness, Repentance, Cleansing is the very beginning of our journey. Jesus Christ Has
Sent The Comforter to Teach and Guide us in all Truth; but we have to study constantly.


Wish it could shorter, but this is what The Word Say.

2Ti 2:15 
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

george. ;D

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EKnight

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Re: Repentance
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2009, 11:14:17 PM »

I have read and listened to Ray's audio on this topic.  I think I get it and then I read:

Matthew 6:
14 "For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

15 "But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.


This confuses me.  I read these scriptures and now I'm thinking that I am not forgiven unless:

14 "For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

15 "But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

Maybe I totally misunderstood the order Forgiveness, Repentance, Cleansing.

I thought forgiveness was first because Christ already died for the remission of sin.  But there are conditions for forgiveness and it appears these conditions must first be met before forgiveness.   ???

Ugh!

Eileen
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aqrinc

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Re: Repentance
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2009, 11:42:03 PM »


Hi Eileen,

Read the Scriptures below and then see how your understanding of that verse in isolation grows.
As Ray teaches, look at all the words; and yes you need to see context here (When Praying).


Mat 6: 7-15
7 Now, in praying, you should not use useless repetitions even as those of the nations. For they are supposing that they will be hearkened to in their loquacity.
8 Do not, then, be like them, for aware is God, your Father, of what you have need before you request Him.
9 "Thus, then, you be praying: 'Our Father Who art in the heavens, hallowed be Thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, on earth also.
11 Our bread, our dole, be giving us today.
12 And remit to us our debts, as we also remit those of our debtors.
13 And mayest Thou not be bringing us into trial, but rescue us from the wicked one.'
14 "For if you should be forgiving men their offenses, your heavenly Father also will be forgiving you.
15 Yet if you should not be forgiving men their offenses, neither will your Father be forgiving your offenses.

Mark 11:24-26
24 Therefore I am saying to you, All, whatever you are praying and requesting, be believing that you obtained, and it will be yours."
25 And whenever you may be standing praying, be forgiving, if you have anything against anyone, that your Father also, Who is in the heavens, may be forgiving you your offenses."
26 Now if you are not forgiving, neither will your Father Who is in the heavens be forgiving your offenses."

george. ;D

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daywalker

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Re: Repentance
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2009, 11:54:18 PM »

I have read and listened to Ray's audio on this topic.  I think I get it and then I read:

Matthew 6:
14 "For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

15 "But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.


This confuses me.  I read these scriptures and now I'm thinking that I am not forgiven unless:

14 "For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

15 "But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

Maybe I totally misunderstood the order Forgiveness, Repentance, Cleansing.

I thought forgiveness was first because Christ already died for the remission of sin.  But there are conditions for forgiveness and it appears these conditions must first be met before forgiveness.   ???

Ugh!

Eileen

Luke 6:32-37:
32 "And if you are loving those loving you, what thanks is it to you? For sinners also are loving those loving them.
33 And if you should be doing good to those doing good to you, what thanks is it to you? For sinners also are doing the same.
34 And if you should ever be lending to those from whom you are expecting to get back, what thanks is it to you? For sinners also are lending to sinners, that they may get back the equivalent.
35 Moreover, be loving your enemies, and be doing good, and be lending, expecting nothing from them, and your wages will be vast in the heavens, and you will be sons of the Most High, for He is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.
36 "Become, then, pitiful, according as your Father also is pitiful.
37 And be not judging, and under no circumstances may you be judged; and be not convicting, and under no circumstances may you be convicted; be releasing, and you shall be released;
38 be giving, and it shall be given to you: a measure ideal, squeezed down and shaken together and running over, shall they be giving into your bosom. For the same measure with which you are measuring will be measured to you again."



This all has to do with living a Godly life. We must live more righteous than those of the world, and those of the Christian Church [Matthew 5:20]

The answer to your question is in the last verse of the passage above:

"For the same measure with which you are measuring will be measured to you again."

And here's how the process of how God's forgiveness towards us works:

Matthew 6:12:  And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.


God will forgive us "as we forgive" others. Then He will lead us to repent, and be cleansed.


- Daywalker.
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Ninny

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Re: Repentance
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2009, 12:04:44 AM »

Eilene, I might add one thing here. Remember Ray said that God began to take things awayfrom him? where he said that: But then God started to make me feel convicted about my sins that I still had.  But I was convinced you couldn’t overcome them!  You know, when you are in your 50’s and still not able to conquer these sins…when?   How?  Will it ever happen?  I was pretty convinced it wouldn’t happen.  But I’m thinking about these things more and I’m studying.  And then I started finding that some things I was doing I didn’t need to do anymore.  And it isn’t anything I did.  God just took something away from me.  Took away a burden, a sin, a guilty conscience about something.  Just took it away and it was no longer a struggle.  But I never stopped wanting to get rid of it ALL.  That was always there.  Get rid of it all.  (You all want to know what those things were….it doesn’t matter, they’re all the same!)  You know, lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, pride of life….

You can’t take credit for it; in His time He will do it.

God had already forgiven him and the stronghold about it all was in his mind. When God broke the stronghold the things fell away..forgiveness, then Ray saw the things he didn't want to do start to fall away he was able to repent of those things..remember that means to turn another way..God gave him a new direction! THEN the cleansing could take place ALL in God's timing.
We just really have to start looking at things with a different perspective, from GOD"S perspective and not ours, we HAVE to stop substituting GOD'S mind with our own! God is not human and He doesn't think like we do! I think that's where  Grace comes in! We let go and let God DO it in HIS own way and in His time!
This may not make sense to you, but this is how I see it.
Kathy :D
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