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Author Topic: Reign for a thousand years  (Read 2521 times)

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odinpop

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Reign for a thousand years
« on: February 19, 2009, 08:34:38 PM »

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


 Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.


 Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


In order to reign you must have subjects to reign over . In order to be a priests you must have a group to preach to. Over whom will the elect reign and to whom will they be priests for this thousand year period??


Thanks,

Brad
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mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: Reign for a thousand years
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2009, 09:07:31 PM »

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


 Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.


 Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


In order to reign you must have subjects to reign over . In order to be a priests you must have a group to preach to. Over whom will the elect reign and to whom will they be priests for this thousand year period??


Thanks,

Brad



Spurious Passages of the New Testament (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6638.0.html)

Rev. 20:5
 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished

This section of is not found in the original Greek manuscripts. And neither is 'the thousand years' a literal 1000 year period.

Ray has not taught much on what 'exactly' the elect will be doing when Christ comes to judge the world in righteousness. Though he has taught and shown from scriptures that Christ with His elect will bring the rest of humanity into salvation.

2 Pet 3:9  The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance

Gal 3:8  And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed

Isa 26:9  ...for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

1 Cor 6:2  Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?



Hope this helps,

Marques
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odinpop

  • Guest
Re: Reign for a thousand years
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2009, 09:54:31 PM »

Awesome! Thank you Marques, I really appreciate your help!

I followed and read the link and then followed the link at the bottom to bibletoday.com. Since this clears things for me and supports my beliefs that the elect will bring others to the truth in this 1000 year period, I want to just except it as fact and move on, I would like to just take this on the authority of Professor C. Tischendorf’s but unfortunately I am not big on just accepting something because someone says it is so. Does anybody have any recommendations on where I could study these spurious passages out further?? Especially Rev 20:5??


Thanks

Brad

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lferretj

  • Guest
Re: Reign for a thousand years
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2009, 10:01:47 PM »

Brad,
To follow Marques thinking I found these previous threads that may shed some light on your question.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8008.0.html Rev 20:5
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6958.0.html 1000 yrs.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5815.0.html   How we got the Bible

Thanks for asking that question, it is providing a most interesting study for me.

lferretj
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Reign for a thousand years
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2009, 10:56:07 PM »


Hi Brad,

I have put together excerpts from articles and emails that I think will help with your question.

http://bible-truths.com/email18.htm -------------------

Get read for a REVELATION!   Whenever someone takes their own life as in suicide, they DIE!  That's right, they're DEAD.  They don't spend an eternity ANYWHERE.

Now then, there is coming a resurrection of the DEAD (dead people, not dead bodies), both the just and the unjust (Acts 24:15).  Those in the resurrection of the just, receive eonian/age-abiding life with Jesus reigning on the earth (Rev. 5:10).  When the reign of Jesus is completed (I Cor. 15:24-26), we continue to live because God has given us not eternal life, but rather IMMORTALITY (which means 'death-less-ness' I Cor. 15:53). Those who come up in the resurrection of the unjust (which will include those who committed suicide), will be Judged. In this Judgment, they will repent, and learn to live godly and righteous lives and they too will receive immortality (Isa. 26:9, etc.).

You will need to read my Lake of Fire series to fill in all the hundreds o f details of this Judgment/Lake of Fire.

God be with you,

Ray


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=7474.0 ---------------

There are few places in the Old Testament where a resurrection of dead people are mentioned or alluded to.  Jesus stated that the declaration, “Now concerning the resurrection of the dead, did you not read that which is declared to you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead but of the living” (Matt. 22:31).

This statement proves that if God is the “God of the living,” but Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are dead when Jesus mentions them, then there has got to be a resurrection of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

The major prophecy concerning the resurrection is found in Ezek. 37. Here we are shown a valley of “dry bones” which God says represents “the WHOLE House of Israel” -- “And He said unto me, `Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel; lo, they are saying: Dried up have our bones, And perished has our hope, We have been cut off by ourselves” (Ezek. 37:11).

So the whole House of Israel dies in a condition of being “perished” with no “hope,” and are “cut off.”  But what does God tell Ezekiel He will do for them?

I am prophesying, and lo, a rushing, and draw near do the bones, bone unto its bone."

Eze 37:8  “And I beheld, and lo, on them [are] sinews [tendons, strength, muscular power], and flesh [muscles, fat, etc.]  has come up, and cover them does skin [the outer covering of a physical body] over above--and spirit there is none in them."

I know of no “spiritual” tendons, muscles, fat or skin, that are put on physical “bones” to remake a “spiritual” man.  This is a PHYSICAL resurrection of the dead, Eze 37:10 “And I have prophesied as He commanded me, and the Spirit comes into them, and they live, and stand on their feet--a very very great force” (Ezek. 37:10).
 
Notice that it takes the spirit from God to give these dried bones life once more. They then “stand on their feet.” This is the exact and precise definition of the word “resurrection.” It means to “stand up” upon one’s feet, but the word itself has nothing to do with being “spiritual” or “immortal” whatsoever.  Jesus raised a little girl and Lazarus from the dead, and they stood up on their feet and lived—they were not made spiritual bodies or given immortality. Likewise those saints resurrected at Christ’s resurrection, were not given spiritual bodies or immortality.

Nowhere are the wicked promised immortality or incorruption, nowhere.  
v
v
We are told that a seed must die to give life to a new seed, or grain, or body (Verse 36).

What KIND of new seed comes about from planting a seed that first must die?  1Co 15:37  “And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain”

Are we told what the “other” grain might be that sprouts like “wheat?”  Yes, as a matter of fact, we are:  Mat 13:25  But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

And are these “tares” also gathered into the barns (brought into the Kingdom of God)?  NO;

Mat 13:30  Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest [resurrection] I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles [different ‘groups’ at different ‘burnings’?]  to burn them [in the Lake of Fire]: but gather the wheat into my barn [My KINGDOM].

NO, in the day of harvest, not all will come up “immortal and incorruptible.”

What else do we learn about the resurrection of God’s Elect?  What are some of the features of their newly resurrected bodies?

“…but the glory of the celestial [high, above, heavenly] is one, and the glory of the terrestrial [worldly, EARTHLY] is another” (Verse 40).

Which category do the Elect come in?  Now pay attention:  1Co 15:48-49  As is the earthy, such  ARE  they also that  ARE  earthy: and as is the heavenly, such  ARE  they also that are heavenly.  And as we have borne the image of the earthy, WE SHALL  also bear the image of the heavenly.

Notice that ONLY “we”  [God’s Elect], not “they,”  “…shall bear the image of the heavenly.”  Paul is speaking that “THEY, the earthy,” and “WE, the heavenly,” and only the “we” will “bear the image of the heavenly,” not “they,” the wicked who will be raised as tares to be burned in the Lake of Fire.
Now we can understand verse 50 in proper context:  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption [corrupt men like Mao Tse Tung, Adolph Hitler, and Saddam Hussein]  inherit incorruption.
v
v
those who are spared death at the conclusion of this eon and will live on into the reign of Jesus Christ with their physical bodies, will not be outdone by the wicked who are raised from their graves. There will not be two communities of non-believers being judged—one in physical bodies, and those among the worst of humanity that have ever lived, being in beautiful, glorious, powerful, incorruptible, SPIRITUAL bodies.  It’s unscriptural nonsense as far as I can see.  Hope this helps your understanding a little better.

God be with you,

Ray


http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm ------------------

"Blessed are the poor in spirit... they that mourn... the meek... they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness... the merciful... the pure in heart... the peacemakers... they which are persecuted for righteousness sake... you when men shall revile you, and persecute you... rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in the heavens" (Matt. 5:2-12).

You [disciples] are the salt of the earth... ye are the light of the world..."

Actually all of the disciples were not all of those things, but they were called to those things, and a select chosen Few were destined to fulfill those things. No one is naturally endowed with those spiritual qualities, but Jesus is about to outline a process by which they and we could becomes endowed with those spiritual qualities which would then ensure us a treasure trove reserved for us in the heavens which Jesus will bring with Him when He returns to rule and reign as King of kings and Lord of lords with his overcoming, chosen, Elect disciples (John 14:2-3 & Rev. 22:12).   Jesus promised:

"To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame, and am sit down with My Father in His throne" (Rev. 3:21).

"And he that overcomes, and keeps My works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations" (Rev. 2:26).

"Do you not know that the saints shall judge the world? ...know you not that we shall judge angels?" (I Cor. 6:2 & 3).


http://bible-truths.com/email11.htm -------------------------

It is a matter of timing. All Scriptures that speak of those who go the "broad way into destruction," "perish in their sins," etc., are all speaking of the NOW, this lifetime. Most of humanity have not even heard the name of Jesus Christ in THIS lifetime, THEIR lifetime.

There is coming a resurrection to REWARDS, and a second resurrection to JUDGMENT. It is in the resurrection to judgment that most of humanity will be saved. Notice what happens when the whole world is raised to God's judgments:

"When Thy Judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants OF THE WORLD will learn RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9).  

And trust me, God will not torture the "righteous" in an eternal hellhole of fire.

Actually there are HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS of Scriptures that point to the Salvation of ALL. I only have time and space in my papers to cover a couple dozen of them.

"Not inheriting the Kingdom of God" has absolutely nothing to do with not ever being saved. Only the CHOSEN FEW will inherit the Kingdom of God, and will rule and reign with Jesus Christ. But ALL will receive salvation in the judgment.

Be sure to read my series on "The Lake of Fire." Nearly every installment gives proof of the fact that only the FEW inherit the Kingdom, while ALL will receive salvation in the Judgment.

God be with you,

Ray



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aqrinc

  • Guest
Re: Reign for a thousand years
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2009, 11:47:19 PM »

Hi Brad,

Hope this is of some help in your quest for answers: Murdock is the only translation that completely
omits the first part of the verse. The others in brackets denote a later addition to the oldest text.

Rev 20:5  This is the first resurrection. (James Murdock NT Translation of The Syriac Peshitta)

Rev 20:5 (The rest of the dead do not live until the thousand years should be finished.) This is the former resurrection. (CLV) Concordant Literal

Rev 20:5  (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over.) This is the first raising of the dead. (GNB) Good News Bible

Rev 20:5 (The rest of the dead were not restored to life till the thousand years were ended.) This is the First Resurrection. (Twentieth Century NT)

Rev 20:5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection. (NIT New English Translation)

george. :)



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odinpop

  • Guest
Re: Reign for a thousand years
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2009, 10:45:58 PM »

Thank you all for you help!! Rev 20:5 has bothered me for some time and knowing that it is a spurious passage has resolved this issue for me. I did look into the validity of the spurious passages list and I am satisfied that most of the listings are relatively accurate. There is enough information on the web concerning this subject that anyone that spends a few hours should be able to satisfy themselves as well.

Basically the spurious passage list came from Constantine Tischendorf , who discovered the Sinaitic Manuscript in 1844. The Manuscript is currently the earliest Greek manuscript of the New Testament (3rd century) and is therefore considered to be the most accurate.  It is roughly 700 years earlier than the manuscripts used for the King James and 200 years earlier than any other manuscript containing the book of Revelations. Tischendorf made notations of variations from the King James as he went through these manuscripts, compiling the spurious passages list.
For those of you interested. Here is a few of the sites that have some good information on the Sinaitic Manuscripts Discovered by Constantine Tischendorf at Mt. Sinai:

http://jacksonsnyder.com/nt/pages/00pref.htm

And

http://www.davidcox.com.mx/library/T/Tischendorf,%20von%20Constantin%20-%20Discovery%20of%20Sinaitic%20Manuscript.pdf

Here is the link to a translation of the New Testament taken directly from the Sinaitic Manuscript.

http://jacksonsnyder.com/nt/index.htm
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aqrinc

  • Guest
Re: Reign for a thousand years
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2009, 11:15:53 PM »


Hi Brad,

Thanks for doing the research yourself, also thanks for the links.

george. ;D

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