Who are the dead in Christ

[Ricky]

Hello everyone,  As always I am missing the meaning of Dead In Christ. Who are these people, and what exactly does DEAD IN CHRIST MEAN? Since the church (all churches) do not teach the truth about Jesus, how is it possible that anybody could have died IN CHRIST without knowing the truth. OK, maybe I should try and explain something to everyone, please do not misjudge me on this. I have not read the bible in years now, and I do not plan on reading it ever again, because without an education it is impossible to to go anywhere with a book that is written like that, nothing in the bible is plain simple English, and now look what the church did to the bible, nothing but lies about what scripture means. And for me Ray`s teaching`s are very hard to grab onto, I know he teaches the truth. I have about 8 days of reading here, and that is not about what Ray teaches, my reading is all from the form, it is what all of you teach. This is the only way that I am able to understand a very little bit of what Ray teaches. I have been hurting for many years now to know God and to know the truth. I can only hope that all or some of you can find a small little spot for me on BT somewhere. We are to love our neighbours as we love ourselves, Impossible for me to do because I am the only man on this planet that I hate more than anybody or anything. I am my very own enemy. It is very hard to go through life without family or friends, I have neither. Everyone, all I ask is for you to please be patient with me, maybe God will feed me a little bit someday so I can understand a little bit more that is all I ask. Thankyou
    Ricky the loser.

[mharrell08]

Hello everyone,  As always I am missing the meaning of Dead In Christ. Who are these people, and what exactly does DEAD IN CHRIST MEAN? Since the church (all churches) do not teach the truth about Jesus, how is it possible that anybody could have died IN CHRIST without knowing the truth. OK, maybe I should try and explain something to everyone, please do not misjudge me on this. I have not read the bible in years now, and I do not plan on reading it ever again, because without an education it is impossible to to go anywhere with a book that is written like that, nothing in the bible is plain simple English, and now look what the church did to the bible, nothing but lies about what scripture means. And for me Ray`s teaching`s are very hard to grab onto, I know he teaches the truth. I have about 8 days of reading here, and that is not about what Ray teaches, my reading is all from the form, it is what all of you teach. This is the only way that I am able to understand a very little bit of what Ray teaches. I have been hurting for many years now to know God and to know the truth. I can only hope that all or some of you can find a small little spot for me on BT somewhere. We are to love our neighbours as we love ourselves, Impossible for me to do because I am the only man on this planet that I hate more than anybody or anything. I am my very own enemy. It is very hard to go through life without family or friends, I have neither. Everyone, all I ask is for you to please be patient with me, maybe God will feed me a little bit someday so I can understand a little bit more that is all I ask. Thankyou
    Ricky the loser.

1 Thess 4:16-17  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Matt 24:31  And he [the Lord] shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Isa 65:22  They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.


Hello Ricky,

This is referring to God's elect who He has been choosing and working His grace in through the last 2000+ years. Some of the chosen & faithful whom the Lord has predestined [Rom 8:29] will be waiting in their graves for the resurrection while others will be alive at his coming. That is what 'dead in Christ' means: those who are chosen and faithful and have died in that truth. They will be resurrected into eonian life.

Prov 30:5  Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

Luke 4:11  ...Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God

Heb 4:12  For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

2 Tim 3:16-17  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


Ricky, all of Ray's teaching are based on the Word of God, the scriptures. Christ says we are to live by every word of God so I would believe taking the time to read it would be necessary. The scriptures are for our admonition, correction, and instructions in righteousness. They should be the very bedrock of our daily lives.

Seek and ask of the Lord for understanding when reading His Word...he will not fail you or ignore you. Though it may not come all at once, the Lord will begin to open your understanding here a little, there a little.

Now, as for yourself: Stop beating yourself up. You're a sinner just like the rest of us...no better, no worse. I know life is hard without family and friends for support but you always have your Father in heaven as well a your Lord and Savior, Jesus. Talk to Him, lean on Him and place your cares of life ON Him. He will not fail nor mislead you. You are never alone: For in him we live, and move, and have our being...by him all things consist [Acts 17:28 & Col 1:17]


Hope this helps,

Marques

[OBrenda]

Can't realy add to the perfection of Marques reply!

Ricky I think we all hate the beast inside us.
Your in "like" company here.
Brenda

[Marky Mark]

Can't realy add to the perfection of Marques reply!

Ricky I think we all hate the beast inside us.
Your in "like" company here.
Brenda

+1

  Ricky, to really appreciate what is going on here in the forums you really need to read bible-truths.com and study what Brother Rays teachings have to offer. Learning Spiritual truth is no walk in the park,it takes a mindset to want to follow Jesus and  all that comes with that responsibility.Reading the word and with the Grace of God to guide you can be a life long effort.Study to show yourself approved.
  A really good place to start is Rays e-mail section on his site,lots of great questions and answers for sure. Hang in there bro and always have the Faith   God Bless you.


Peace...Mark

[Samson]

Hello Brother Ricky,


                           Below is an excerpt from Rays Seven Foundational Truths, I only pasted
                           the part of the Transcript that mentions these simple foundational
                           Scriptures. Open your Bible and read these verses while following along
                           with Ray's explanation of them. (Read Below)


                            want to show that you don't have to have that many (foundational Truths), if you know how to use the couple that you have. 
It's like if you have just a select number of tools, a hammer, a saw, a screw driver... say you could have 7 tools and you could build a whole house with those tools.  You could have only 7 tools and you could come up with 7.  Although the average house is built with maybe 100 or more tools at least.  Every trade has a bucket full of 30-40-50 tools.  But you would need an adjustable wrench, something to cut with maybe like a saw or knife, a hammer, a screw driver... but you could probably come up with 7 tools to build a house.


                                    GOD DOES NOT LIE! 

Let's go through just one major point here about God and His work.  Now I'm assuming that we accept the fact that there is a God.  But first you have to accept that there is a creation and there is a Creator of the creation.  I'm assuming that we all believe that there is a God of the creation. 

I'll ask the question here, does God lie?  I want to give you this verse in the Concordant in Titus, because it really is worded properly.

Titus 1:2   in expectation of life eonian, which God, Who does not lie, promises before times eonian, (CLV)

The King James says, "God, that cannot lie,"  But that is not what it means, that's not what it says.  It doesn't say in the Greek that He "cannot" lie, it says "does not."  It's a negative, can't - don't.  But it's not that He can't, but He doesn't.  God doesn't lie.

Num 23:19  God is not a man, that He should lie;

1 Sam 15:29  And also the Strength of Israel will not lie...

That is in a capital, it is talking about God.   This is a Truth!  You got to hang onto that.  Under no circumstances can you ever let go of that Truth, it's paramount.  If you believe that God lies, then you might as well throw your Bible away.  You might as well throw your religion away. 

This is paramount!
You say, 'well teach me something new Ray, teach me something I need to know.  Teach me something the whole church doesn't know or believe.'  I AM.  They DON'T believe this.  That's why I'm telling you, you must believe this. 
G o d  d o e s  n o t  l i e.


                              GOD'S WORD DOES NOT LIE!

John 17:17  Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy WORD is truth.

John 10:35  ...and the SCRIPTURE cannot be broken;

2 Tim 3:16  ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

So the Scripture are true.  They are true and they can't be broken and they are written through the inspiration of God, who does not lie.  Now have you got that point in your mind?  Don't ever lose that.  This is your salvation, when it comes to you understanding the Scriptures and/or teaching others to understand the Scriptures or exposing those who contradict themselves.

We can now apply this TRUTH to all Scriptures.  With just that Truth we can confound the mighty of this world and I'll show you how to do it.  This is not going to be a difficult study.  But it is going to be maybe one of the most profound studies I've ever given. 


                          SEVEN [7] FOUNDATIONAL SCRIPTURES

Now I going to give you 7 Scriptures that talks about really important things and I have several that eludes to the salvation of the human race.  Because what is more important than that?  What's more important to a human being than to think that God, since He brought us into existence, we will always be in existence.  Even when we die He is going to bring us back.  If He brought us here in the first place, then He can bring us back.  This is not hard, not for God.

[1]  1 John 4:14  And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

I never forgot that Scripture.  First time I saw that I memorized it and I never forgot it.  I never had to look it up again, I knew where it was...1 John 4:14.  And also 1 John 4:8 "...for God is love."  Remember these.

[2]  1 Tim 2:4  God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

You're got to believe that.  Maybe you should cut these out and stick them in your Bible or something.

[3]  1 Tim 4:10  For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living GOD, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe.

Phil 2:13  For it is GOD which works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Do you see free will in there any place?  Who is it that brings about what is your will and what you will do?  GOD!

[4]  2 Peter 3:9  The Lord is...NOT WILLING that ANY should perish (well how is He going to keep them from perishing?...), but that all should come to repentance.

Here is a negative thought - "not willing."  Now this is the will of God and this is important.  God's will is that no one should perish... no one, not Adolf Hitler, not Osama Bin Laden, no one.  But they all have to repent. 
You say, ' well they're already dead Ray.'  That's right, but they are coming back in judgment and they have to repent.  Why?  Because God does not want them to perish.

Now we are going to see what theologians do with these verses and what you can't ever do with these verse.  Because this is Truth, God does not will - He's not willing - He does not want - He has no such desire - He takes no pleasure in any perishing.  But He is going to have them all repent.

[5]  Isa 46:10  Declaring the end from the beginning (speaking of God), and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure:

What an important verse.  Now do you believe it?  Can you believe it and will you continue to believe it?  If there is anything in God's Word where He says, this is what I want - this is what I desire - this is one of My pleasures - this is one of the things I'm going to bring about... will it have to be brought about?  That's what God says, "My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure."  I WILL do it.  I mean you can bring in more Scripture, like the Lord's prayer.

Luke 11:2  ...Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will BE done, as in heaven, so in earth.

"THY WILL BE DONE" see, no ifs ands or maybes.  So when you have these people who say, 'well yeah, God kind of wishes that things would be better, they just are not.'  Nonsense.

[6]  1 John 4:8  He that loves not knows not God (why?...); for God is love.
Very profound statement, it's the Truth and you've got to believe it. 

[7]  1 Cor 13:8 Love NEVER FAILS...

You might kill the person who is doing the loving, but the love still isn't going to fail.  "LOVE NEVER FAILS."



             Hope this helps Ricky, these Scriptures above are simple, but Churches in general don't
             really believe them; God's Love NEVER fails, so there can't be one instance where it does,
             although people(Family, " Friends" & outsiders) often do.

                          Take Heart, I often feel alone, unwanted and a Scapegoat. Study alittle at a
                          time, as Marques suggests, concentrate on quality of understanding, instead
                          of quantity. Feel free to PM me anytime.

                                          Kind Regards, Samson.













     

[Patrick]

maybe God will feed me a little bit someday so I can understand a little bit more that is all I ask.

sometimes we come to believe that God has given up on us, or maybe we aren't even being called by God to be an over-comer of sin. This is not true! God is calling you alright - your request for spiritual help is proof of this.

Ricky, your asking for God to feed you a little bit so you can understand a little bit is FROM GOD. He places that desire in your heart.
If you can read this forum, you can read your bible and Ray's teachings. The Word is our spiritual food; man cannot live by bread alone (have you read or heard that before?).

Read Ray's teaching on prayer. http://bible-truths.com/praying.htm

Get your bible, and read through Ray's spurious passages paper, http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=6638.0 ; highlight those passages or mark them out.

Read Ray's teaching on understanding His Word. http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm

Read or listen to what Sampson posted regarding foundational truths. Transcript - http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6452.0.html

Seek and ask of the Lord for understanding when reading His Word...he will not fail you or ignore you. Though it may not come all at once, the Lord will begin to open your understanding here a little, there a little.

Psalms 84:11  For the LORD God is a sun and a shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.

2 Peter 3:18
But GROW in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To Him be glory both now and for ever. Amen

[Ricky]

Hello Mharrell08, Thankyou for your reply, because I do not know how to to put up a quote on here, when someone has replied to my questions, I will have to type out what you have said, you stated that, This is referring to God's elect who He has been choosing and working His grace in through the last 2000+ years. Some of the chosen & faithful whom the Lord has predestined [Rom 8:29] will be waiting in their graves for the resurrection while others will be alive at his coming. That is what 'dead in Christ' means: those who are chosen and faithful and have died in that truth. They will be resurrected into eonian life. I will now ask another way, 40 YEARS AGO, 100 YEARS AGO, 1000 YEARS AGO,  was Ray here then?? was the internet here back then, how could they know the truth without Ray or the net? IF THE TRUTH HAS NEVER BEEN ON THE PLANET UNTIL NOW!! WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE THAT HAVE DIED IN CHRIST, WITHOUT KNOWING THE TRUTH BECAUSE IT HAS NEVER BEEN HERE BEFORE. This what I do not understand[.Thankyou.      Ricky     p.s. would you believe that what I have just typed out. has taken me over an hour to do. That is how slow I am with all of this, keyboards do not have sterring wheels for dumb truck driver`s. /color]

[Marlene]

Ricky, Just, want you to know we would not be in here , if God did not lead us here. Yes, the Bible is spiritual food.  That, is a blessing God gave us. But, God can do miracles today! He can use any means he wants.

Back, then he had his ways. Maybe, he used men who knew the truth when there was no internet. He could use our time in Babylon. Who, knows the ways of God. God has strange ways. Ray talks about this in his Nashville, Conferene notes in 2007. I do am like you have not figured out how to put things on here without typing.

Maybe some one can direct you better then I can. But, I was reading all of that last night. There, are some good things in there to help how you feel about your past and your life.

Now, I believe God does miracles. I could tell you quite a few of mine. I did not know truth then. But, I did believe some things that were true, because God was leading me while I read them. But, my one on one talks with him really helped me. When, I found Rays website, I was in need a big miracle.
I had failed God big time right before that. I came down very ill and I had a deadly blood infection. He walked with me through that. He kept me awake through that. There I learned I was not in control of any thing. But, he wants us to trust him.  I had failed him there. I was so sure God could not forgive me for this last mistake. I wanted to die and go to the make believe Hell that I believed was true. I cried out to God please give me your truths cause I dont want to live the rest of my life in regret. It was a Hell of my mind. I believe, forgiving ourselves is important. We cannot live in the past, but we can live in the  future. I had a post about miracles God has given us or ways he kept us near. To me these experiences give people hope. They may even teach us trust. I know, my experiences with God has. I feel your pain. Those articles of Rays really helped me reading them over last night.

Maybe, some one in here and lead you to them. They are Conference notes from 2007
I don't know why God uses different ways to reach people with the truths. But, I am so blessed for the internet. God gave me my Miracle that night. I typed in Hell. L. Ray Smith was used to give me my miracle.  Well, Love won me over.  Thats, how God is going to win humanity. LOVE

Now he wants to win your trust and erase your past. Your, past is not over as long as you dwell on it. But, to let go is a Miracle from God.
You are here for a purpose . I would say God Loves you alot. Have faith, this might seem strange do you. But, God works in strange ways man cannot even see it is from him sometimes.


In His Love,
Malrene

[Ricky]

Hello Marlene & Horseman, Thankyou so very much. Both of your replies is the way that I can understand. Plain and simple English. I have always had the feeling that my biggest problem with the Lord is, TRUSTING HIM. I am a man that trusts no one. I now know that not putting my trust in Him IS THE PROBLEM I HAVE WITH EVERYTHING.As of today I believe that I have dumped all of my sins, except one, and that one will be very hard to let go. I want it GONE. I have asked God to help me get rid of it. I do pray every day, and sometimes 3 or 4 times a day. I have ALMOST,told God to get lost and leave me alone, you have more important people to play with. For years now God has being haunting me 24 hours aday everyday. There is a christian song done by a group called Silverwings, I do not know the name of it or the words to it, but it has been stuck in my head for 12 years now and cannot get rid of it. I have always thought that the bad things that happen to me is punishment from God. I now know that it is teaching, and not punishment, I only hope I am not wrong on this one. When I was in church between 1995-2000 I was the Moses of the 21 century, I was so fired up for the Lord, people were scared of me, I did things for Jesus in public that no one would ever have the nerve to do. I don't know why but without the church I do not feel that I am wanted by God. In church I had some friends and now I do not. I do miss the church, but I will never go back to one. Everything in my life was almost perfect back then, I was happy, I felt the love from God (so I thought) It would be so wonderful if every city had one church that teaches the truth, then we could have a home to  go to fellowship together in person.  Thankyou all so very much 
Bless you all.   Ricky

[Linny]

Ricky,
I am always amazed at the people God uses. In the Bible and in my life. Especially that He has chosen me to know the truth. I was not the picture of a person who had it all together or was even on the right track. But for some reason, He pulled me out of my self-made mess and 19 years later, here I am.

You are no different. You may not be able to see what He sees yet. But you must get it through your head that He picked you just as you are. Therefore, He must have a pretty great plan for your life. Just start gazing forward and stop looking back. For that matter, stop looking at what you see today because that is not what He sees. He called Gideon, while he was hiding, a mighty man of valour because that is what He saw.

Jdg 6:11  And the angel of the LORD came, and sat under the terebinth which was in Ophrah, that belonged unto Joash the Abiezrite; and his son Gideon was beating out wheat in the winepress, to hide it from the Midianites.
Jdg 6:12  And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him, and said unto him: 'The LORD is with thee, thou mighty man of valour.'

He sees what you are to become and He called you out to bring you to that end. You should be ecstatic rather than down on yourself.

The fact that God has called you out of your comfort zone (your church) isn't a bad thing it is a great thing. Apparently, the plans He has for your life mean leaning on Him and not other people. He took you out to teach you that.

So I say chin up and let's go on this journey together. You are in great (formerly crappy) company! We are in for a wild ride and I for one look forward with glee to what all God has in store for us. We are all a work in progress with only up to go!


Blessings, Lin

[Dave in Tenn]

Ricky, to further answer your question.

40 years ago, 100 years ago, 1000 years ago there were people who had and held to the truth.  Even if there were no teachers--much less the internet--they had the scriptures and saw the truth in them.  I reckon that most of them were unknown to history.  In other words, this is NOT new.  If anything, it is a revival of the original Gospel message taught by the Apostles.  That's what excites me about it. 

God has always had a remnant.  That's been true all the way back even into the Old Testament, and will continue as long as mankind walks on the earth.  Why?  Because His Words will NOT pass away.

[Marlene]

Ricky, If you want a song that helps me. It is Raging Sea by Michael W. Smith. Just type in You Tube Raching Sea by Michael Smith, It helps me to know more of the Love of God for me.

In His Love,
Marlene

[aqrinc]

Ricky,

I wish there was an easier way to do this too. Many days i am caught between going with the
things i see and touch or believing that the unseen is better. I can only thank GOD for His Grace
and Faith that keeps me going. Our choice is really simple; not easy simple; Trust GOD And His
Word Jesus Christ our Saviour or go back to what makes us feel good now (Carnality).

Rom 7: 14-25 (CLV)
14  I know that God's standards are spiritual, but I have a corrupt nature, sold as a slave to sin.
15  I don't realize what I'm doing. I don't do what I want to do. Instead, I do what I hate.
16  I don't do what I want to do, but I agree that God's standards are good.
17  So I am no longer the one who is doing the things I hate, but sin that lives in me is doing them.
18  I know that nothing good lives in me; that is, nothing good lives in my corrupt nature. Although I have the desire to do what is right, I don't do it.
19  I don't do the good I want to do. Instead, I do the evil that I don't want to do.
20  Now, when I do what I don't want to do, I am no longer the one who is doing it. Sin that lives in me is doing it.
21  So I've discovered this truth: Evil is present with me even when I want to do what God's standards say is good.
22  I take pleasure in God's standards in my inner being.
23  However, I see a different standard at work throughout my body. It is at war with the standards my mind sets and tries to take me captive to sin's standards which still exist throughout my body.
24  What a miserable person I am! Who will rescue me from my dying body?
25  I thank God that our Lord Jesus Christ rescues me! So I am obedient to God's standards with my mind, but I am obedient to sin's standards with my corrupt nature.

Here is a paper from Ray that i am reading for the 3rd time: http://bible-truths.com/lake12.html

Excerpt from: GOD JUDGES THE WORLD IN A POND

God saved Noah and his family from the raging waves of the sea in an ark. When we come to understanding spiritual things, we will clearly see that the ark represents Christ. We also have examples of Jesus saving His disciples from the raging waves of the Sea [lake] of Galilee.

"And when He was entered into a ship, His disciples followed Him. And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was COVERED WITH THE WAVES ['and the waves beat into the ship, so that it was already filling, Mk 4:37]: but He was asleep. And His disciple came to Him, and awoke Him, saying Lord, save us: WE PERISH. And He said unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then He arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea: and there was a great calm. But the men marveled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him!" (Matt. 8:23-27).

Does anyone have the slightest doubt that Jesus possesses the power to calm the sea? Is any man or group of men more powerful than the sea? Then why, oh why, do we allow theologians, clergymen, pastors, preachers, teachers and authors to tell us that Jesus Christ is POWERLESS TO CALM THE SEA OF HUMANITY? That man possesses a raging power of "free will" that even God Himself cannot and will not penetrate or calm? No, my friends, "...the winds and the sea OBEY HIM!"

On another occasion we read this:

"And straightway Jesus constrained His disciples to get into a ship, and to go before Him unto the other side, while He sent the multitudes away... But the ship was now in the midst of the sea, TOSSED WITH WAVES" (Matt. 14:22-24).

In both cases Jesus SAVED His disciples from the raging waves of the sea.

JESUS CHRIST IS OUR COVERING

We just read where the Apostles were on a boat on the sea of Galilee and were, "...COVERED with waves..." I see another type here. What do the "raging waves of the sea" symbolize?

Jude tells us that, "filthy dreamers," who "defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities," "brute beasts," those who have "gone the way of Can," and are after "the error of Balaam," and those who "perished in the gainsaying of core," these are "spots in your feasts of charity ... RAGING WAVES OF THE SEA..." (Jude 8-13).

Say, did you notice where these "filthy dreamers, brute beasts, raging waves of the sea" are located. That's right—IN THE CHURCH. These evil people are eating right along with the rest in the Church's "feasts of charity." These are those who, "say they are apostles [of Christ], and are not," and those who, "say they are Jews [spiritual Jews -- converted Christians], and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."

The disciples were literally "covered with waves" of the sea, but they were also covered with the "raging waves of the sea" spoken of in Jude, because they were, as yet, unconverted.

Actually, the Sea of Galilee is really a lake, also called, The Lake of Gennesar [et] and Lake Tiberias. Jesus Himself called Galilee a "lake" (Luke 8:22). Notice that the carnality of man symbolized in "covered with waves" (raging waves of the sea) needed salvation—"Lord save us, WE PERISH." What did Jesus become to His disciples at that very instant? Answer: "a covering shelter." Whereas they were covered by the raging waves of the sea, Jesus now became their "covering."

Jesus SAVED His disciples from the "raging waves of the sea that covered them," in the middle of the Sea [lake] of Galilee. But this was a literal physical event. They were not spiritually converted as yet, but this event pointed to just such a conversion of the spirit. Will not Jesus also become a "covering shelter" for others? If so, for whom, and for how many?

JESUS CHRIST IS THE COVERING SHELTER
OF THE WHOLE WORLD

"And He [Jesus] is the propitiation [Greek: hilasmos, signifies "an expiation, a means whereby sin is COVERED and remitted" Strong', p. 121] for our sins: and not for ours only, but also FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD" (1 John 2:2).

It may come as a surprise to realize that Jesus started His work of propitiation in a "lake"—the Lake of Galilee, and He will finish His work of propitiation in another lake, "the Lake of Fire."

george.

[Ricky]

Thankyou everyone for your replies. You have helped in many ways. I have now seen some of what I have been missing. I would like to say something here, and can only hope that none of you will judge me on it. My parents were divorced when I was 12 years old, I am the first born in my family. My mother`s side of the family is christian from Edmonton where I have been now for the last 4 years, my father`s side of the family from Vancouver is Hell`s Angel`s, east end chapter. I was with mom when they divorced, she had no control over me. I quit school at 12 years old. Married at 16 years old. Life was very hard at that time, with a wife and 2 babies to support. I had to make a choice between mom or dad. I choose dad. You may now see what my life consisted of for the next 20 years by choosing dad and his side of the family. There would be no point for me having regrets with this because I know understand it was God`s will for me. Unbelievable!! but all so true. Satan always`s run`s my past in my face, and I try to get even with him by running his future in his face. Two weeks ago I had something stolen from my car. I saw who did it and know where he lives. I could have called the police and let them deal with him. But my past caught up with me and I decided to take good care of that puppy myself, my way. He is a drug dealer and works the streets, I sat in my car the other day and watched him for two hours trying to decide what to do with him. He knew I was there and he was waiting for me. I ended up driving away burning like a piece of bacon. God would not let me do anything to him. (unbelievable) And that is my proof that God is working with me. UNBELIEVEABLE All I can say is thankyou Jesus.
           Bless you all              Ricky

[Roy Martin]

Hey Ricky,
  I can only speak from experience and what I know about having a personal relationship with God that the good news in your post is that your moving forward.I think I know where your at in your journey, that someday you will look back on where you are and be able to see the blessing in it. Did you know that a new born baby doesnt know love and trust.Its a process that grows as its mother provides for it.
I know thats kind of a lame example but you get it. God is providing His work in you and you too will grow to trust Him. Its never as fast as we want it but even that is a growing process,a wonderful journey from what was and is and will be.
Peace
Roy Martin

[cjwood]

You are in great (formerly crappy) company! We are in for a wild ride and I for one look forward with glee to what all God has in store for us. We are all a work in progress with only up to go!







hi ricky,
lin's words noted above are so true! i have never been more happy to be part of a group as i am to be part of this lot of people on the BT/forum. we are truly a great (formerly crappy  ) company. a family formerly disfunctional, but slowly becoming a family of people conformed to His image. our wild journey towards that end is on the "narrow" path. if we don't keep our eyes focused on Him, we will fall to the left or to the right. it is hard and at times it appears impossible, but the path to Christ is sure, and we know that with God all things are possible.

there is another thread posted in this same "general discussions" section called "preaching the gospel to the world". there was a reply posted to that thread by "aqr/george" where he provided a link to an excerpt from ray's paper on "what is the gospel of the kingdom". the two sections george pasted from that link are called "the image of God" and "understanding the Book". if you have not already read the link and the writings, you should do so. each of the 2 sections provided are exactly what you have been speaking about in your initial thread post.

we ALL on the BT/forum have at one time or another felt some of the same things you have been feeling. i know that personally i am coming to hate my fleshly mind more and more and more. but i know that is the key to putting on the "new man", meaning the new spiritual mind of Christ. that is all part of God's creatING us into His image. no doubt, it will take our whole lifetime, but my oh my what an awesome prize awaiting us if we can endure the journey there.

so i too will exhort you to keep your chin up. and, keep talking, crying out, screaming at, singing to, or whispering to your Father because He wants to hear from you.

love in Christ ricky,
claudia

[Ricky]

Hello Roy, Thankyou for your kind reply. I had probably made a big mistake here on BT by telling everyone about my dad`s side of the family I am quit sure that most if not all on BT will now have a very bad assumption about me now and would rather not associate with me, and that`s OK because I am use to it, it has allway`s been that way. I shall make one thing very clear, I was never a CLUB MEMBER for them, and I shall leave it at that. I needed to show everyone that I am different from all of you. None of you have ever done or lived they way I have, the first 39 years of my life, I know this. And I believe that because of this, it is the reason why it will take me 5 times longer for God to really bust me up and put me back together. I think that God has burnt all my sins out of me, except one. The first 39 years of my life was all booze, drugs, crime, and jail. I am a very hard man to deal with, I trust no one, and that includes God, and I think that may be the problem God has with me, or I have with Him. If you have no one to pray for you, somehow I think it may be harder for God to work on you, I do not know this for sure. I know God is with me but it feels like He may be sitting on the sidelines right now and letting me run the race on my own. I had always thought that God was out to get even with me for my past lifestyle. I have been clean from booze and crime now for 14 years, since 1995 the year I became a christian, and that happened because of a car accident on the Alaska highway. I woke up 3 weeks later 1500 miles away with a broken neck and back. Doctor`s have no medical reason why I am alive and not paralyzed today. If there is anyone here that could pray for me, just once, maybe God could find some mercy for me to help me understand just a little bit.
Thankyou        Ricky

[cjwood]

Satan always`s run`s my past in my face, and I try to get even with him by running his future in his face.








ricky,
now there's a statement worth making a bumper sticker out of!


claudia

[cjwood]

I needed to show everyone that I am different from all of you. None of you have ever done or lived they way I have, the first 39 years of my life, I know this.

If you have no one to pray for you, somehow I think it may be harder for God to work on you, I do not know this for sure. I know God is with me but it feels like He may be sitting on the sidelines right now and letting me run the race on my own.

1995 the year I became a christian, and that happened because of a car accident on the Alaska highway. I woke up 3 weeks later 1500 miles away with a broken neck and back. Doctor`s have no medical reason why I am alive and not paralyzed today. If there is anyone here that could pray for me, just once, maybe God could find some mercy for me to help me understand just a little bit.






ricky,
regarding your showing everyone that you are different than us, all i can say is "ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!!!" you are EXACTLY like us here. many, many of us have followed down the same path of booze, drugs, crime, and then booze, drugs, and crime AGAIN before God yanked us here by our necks!

regarding your having no one to pray for, well, that's no longer true. i/we will pray for you. you are part of our family. AND, yes, you are running this race (your journey) BUT, God is your head coach. you wouldn't even be on the team if HE hadn't put you on it.

and lastly, regarding their being no medical reasons as to why you are alive and not paralyzed today, it is because IT WAS NOT YOUR TIME YET! God had not lead you to the bible-truths website to be shown the awesome and life changing truths from His Scriptures yet. He knew you would come here, He caused EVERYTHING in your life to happen EXACTLY the way it did (EVEN living with your dad and his biker homies) to bring you to this VERY time in your life. BELIEVE IT ricky and REJOICE!!! yes, it is a hard path to follow BUT, YOU ARE NOT ALONE. Christ is in you and He was more alone than you can ever even imagine. He knows your pain and He can heal it. LET HIM...

claudia

[Ricky]

Thankyou Claudia. You have showed me something I needed to see and hear. What I meant by being different was that the criminal element that I chose to be a part of is the worst that there is. None of you would have ever been accepted by them, I was because of my family, 1 brother, and 2 cousin`s, full patch club members today. They are killer`s. That is the key to becoming a club member, you must kill on command. And that is the only thing I could not do, and they knew it. So I was family to them and not a club member. My favorite cousin Dave Schwartz was Sargent at arms for them. He was shot and killed April / 88. That is when I left. Roy Martin, thankyou Sir, you and I have some old ways that are in common. But the big difference I see in us is, you have only been here minutes and you are 500 miles ahead of me with God. I have been reading here 8 days now over a year and am no where near you and  your walk with God. I could go on and on, I just want to thank you all for your help, and can only hope and pray that you will be patient with me. That beast inside me is trying to prevent me from continuing on with God. This is so hard for me.
Bless you all.         Ricky