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Author Topic: Jesus - the same yesterday, today and forever  (Read 1944 times)

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myms

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Jesus - the same yesterday, today and forever
« on: March 05, 2009, 10:40:00 AM »

Please can someone point me to any teaching of Ray's that would help me to understand why if Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever, and in the gospels taught us to love our enemies, why in old testament times He would command the opposite (see 1 Sam 15:3). Thank you.
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mharrell08

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Re: Jesus - the same yesterday, today and forever
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2009, 10:57:53 AM »

Please can someone point me to any teaching of Ray's that would help me to understand why if Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever, and in the gospels taught us to love our enemies, why in old testament times He would command the opposite (see 1 Sam 15:3). Thank you.

A few email replies from Ray

(http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2548.0.html):

Dear George;
        There is a progression in God's revelation to humanity. First the physical and then the spiritual (I Cor. 15:46-47).  First man killed his physical enemies, and now he is to kill his spiritual enemies, which are the works of the flesh, the deeds of the carnal mind (Rom. 8:13 & Col. 3:5).
        The wages of sin is death (Rom. 6:23). This is true for our enemies and for ourselves.  Those who live by the sword shall die by the sword (Matt. 26:52).  And we are just as corrupt as our physical enemies and must likewise be destroyed at the source of our corruptioon (Eph. 4:22-32), etc., etc.  It is harder to kill [mortify] the deeds of our own flesh than to kill our enemies.
        God be with you,
        Ray


(http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1908.msg15785.html#msg15785)

Dear Joed:
You have it completely backwards:  God commanded Israel to "kill" their enemies, however, the seventh commandment is "thou shalt not MURDER." The same holds for the New Tesament commandment (Matt. 5:21). The translators didn't quite get that one right.  God used his physical nation of Israel to Judge the heathens in the land of Canaan, where as in the future God will use his Spiritual Nation of Israel to Judge the whole word system of Babylon the Great.
God be with you,
Ray



Marques



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myms

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Re: Jesus - the same yesterday, today and forever
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2009, 11:11:34 AM »

Thank you Marques - thats given me food for thought!
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Jesus - the same yesterday, today and forever
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2009, 11:39:34 AM »


Hi myms,

I see this is your first post, so welcome to the forum  :)

Your question is very complicated, there is not a simple answer to explain it.  First you have to grasp the sovereignty of God, He truly is in control of ALL things.  So there is absolutely nothing happening outside of His will.  God has a plan and it is being carried out precisely as He designed it to be past, present and future, He knows the end from the beginning (Isa. 46:10).  But most are in the dark about this His plan, we can all see what is happening and get bogged down in it, they can not see the forrest for the trees so to speak.  Only a very few are given understanding at this time and can see beyond the present into the marvelous future He has for us.  

I think you could say we are only in the first part of God's plan for us, now living through the age of the carnal fleshly ways of man learning good and especially evil, "First the physical and then the spiritual" (I Cor. 15:46-47).  

Part C of the article 'The Myth of Free Will Exposed' would give you a much better grasp on why this world is the way it is, but here is an excerpt for now.

http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html ------------------------

This is all the strange work of God. There is no free will about it. We are all born out of a dark womb into the natural light of day, but this too is but a parable. We must be “born again” out of spiritual darkness of this age into the glorious light of the Sun of God. It is a painful journey, and requires an experience of evil to accomplish.

“And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail has God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith”  (Ecclesiastes 1:13).

What a horrible translation! My King James has three superior numbers in this one verse indicating three different words in the margin. Especially the last phrase:
v
Here then is a proper translation of this most profound verse:

“It is an experience of evil Elohim [God] has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it” (Concorant Old Testament).
v
This “experience of evil” is not the purpose or goal of human existence, but this is indeed the process by which God is bringing His Sons and Daughters into glory! Most translations have hidden the meaning of this verse of Scripture. The translations just couldn’t believe that God would do such a thing. They see it all around them. They see it in thousands of Scriptures, but they just couldn’t bring themselves to come right out and say it, as God obviously has stated in the original Hebrew of this verse.

“It is an EXPERIENCE of EVIL that God has given to the sons of humanity to HUMBLE them by it.”

And to this agrees the rest of Scripture:

“For ALL his days are SORROWS, and his travail [experience] GRIEF…”  (Ecc. 2:23).

The destiny of the human race is indeed GLORIOUS, but the journey is filled with evil and sorrow. This not to say that there are not many beautiful and good things in life, but for most the misery far far outweighs the pleasurable.

Do not be deceived: when Jesus said—“…I am come that they might have life and that they might have it more abundantly” (John 10:10), He was surely not speaking about this life, now, in the flesh! Contrary to the evil teachings of prosperity ministers, Jesus never promised us LARGER HOMES AND GREATER MATERIAL POSSESSIONS after we start following in His steps.

Jesus said that if we leave our parents, families, houses and possessions for His sake that we would receive a hundred fold of parents, families, houses and possessions NOW. But He was not speaking of receiving back NOW, these same PHYSICAL parents, families, and possessions, but rather the families and possessions we would receive NOW would be SPIRITUAL.

Does anyone really believe that if we leave our PHYSICAL PARENTS that He will give us another, different set of PHYSICAL PARENTS?   Well, yes, I guess there are those who are so spiritually ignorant that they might really believe that they will receive a brand new set of BIRTHING PARENTS to take the place of the ones they left.  However, the truth is: “…the words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT…” (John 6:63).
--------------------------------------------------------

It will take much study and pray to come to a point where you are able to understand the sovereignty and plan of God.  I would suggest reading all at Bibletruth.com, it will help you with many foundational truths you need.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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mharrell08

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Re: Jesus - the same yesterday, today and forever
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2009, 08:20:58 PM »

(http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1908.msg15785.html#msg15785)

Dear Joed:
You have it completely backwards:  God commanded Israel to "kill" their enemies, however, the seventh commandment is "thou shalt not MURDER." The same holds for the New Tesament commandment (Matt. 5:21). The translators didn't quite get that one right.  God used his physical nation of Israel to Judge the heathens in the land of Canaan, where as in the future God will use his Spiritual Nation of Israel to Judge the whole word system of Babylon the Great.
God be with you,
Ray



Marques


Good catch by Kenny...it should be 'world system of Babylon the Great' not 'word'...I modified the email and it now says 'world'.


Thanks,

Marques
« Last Edit: March 05, 2009, 08:23:11 PM by mharrell08 »
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kenny

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Re: Jesus - the same yesterday, today and forever
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2009, 11:09:52 PM »

You know marques that might have been a miss spell but Babylon words will be jugdes , every idol word
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