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Author Topic: alive in heaven/alive in hell  (Read 1814 times)

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kenny

  • Guest
alive in heaven/alive in hell
« on: March 05, 2009, 04:36:13 PM »

i have been reading the lake of fire 3 and this is something i came across.

Just what is this human life on earth for, anyway? -- Why are we here? -- What is our purpose? -- What is Godís purpose for the Christian?

As children we are taught that Christian people live; they die; their souls go to heaven. Bad people live; they die; their souls go to hell. Live, die, go to heaven or live, die, go to hell.

So I guess this earth is a giant "soul factory." But the truth is that Christian souls do not go to heaven at death, neither do wicked souls go to hell at death. Contrary to all Christian belief, the Bible reveals (as does elementary science), that dead people are DEAD. What a revelation! Thatís right, boys and girls, living people are "ALIVE" and dead people are "DEAD." This is not rocket science!

If ALL the dead are either alive in hell or alive in heaven, who, pray tell, is God going to resurrect back to life from the dead when He returns to judge the world in righteousness? How can the dead be living in heaven or hell when they havenít as yet been judged as to where they should be living in the first place?


2 Co 5:8  We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
 i can not find to be absent from the body is to be with lord
« Last Edit: March 05, 2009, 04:54:35 PM by mharrell08 »
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mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: alive in heaven/alive in hell
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2009, 04:55:37 PM »

Please excuse me Kenny for editing your comments but I highlighted Ray's words in blue so the rest of the members could differentiate and see your question.


Marques
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Samson

  • Guest
Re: alive in heaven/alive in hell
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2009, 04:58:54 PM »

Hi Kenny,


             Just to add an excerpt from Ray's Article, Death an Encouraging Word, Sub-Heading,
Death is Sleep.



                              DEATH IS SLEEP

   was tempted to make that caption: DEATH IS LIKE SLEEP, but that would be Scripturally inaccurate, as nowhere do the Scriptures state that death is "like" sleep, but rather that death IS SLEEP. God prepared Moses for death with the following:

"And the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, you shall sleep [Heb: shakabóto lie down, to rest, to sleep, to decease] with your fathersÖ" (Deut. 31:16).

David said:

"Consider and hear me, O Lord my God: lighten my eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death" (Psalm 13:3).

When Lazarus was dead (John 11:14), Jesus said:

"Our friend Lazarus sleeps: but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep" (John 11:11).

Do you fear when your children "sleep" at night? You know that they are safe in sleep. Even in sleep we have a slight awareness of life, especially when we are dreaming or falling in and out of sleep, but in death there is no consciousness nor sub-consciousness, and so you will never know that you are sleeping. You know that your children will awake in the morning. We all who died IN CHRIST, shall awake in the morning of resurrection. And when we do, we might remember dying, but we will not remember ever being dead.

On five different occasions I came very near to death. Three of the five times I was unconscious. For all practicality, I was dead. I remember what happened before and after being unconscious, but I remember nothing of BEING unconscious. Yet I knew that I was, but only after the fact by the evidence, not from my actual experience of having been under. The actual fact of death is no different from what I already experienced several times. And you have all experienced it already as well. We all sleep, and unless we have bad dreams, the experience of sleep itself is nothing fearful or painful.

Sleep is a way that God can set people aside for a little while as He works with our children and our childrenís children. Centuries and millennia will pass for some, yet they will know no death, only consciousness. From our perspective we will never know anything but life and consciousness. Death wonít even be an illusion: it wonít be AT ALL. And that is because "The living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything."

The Apostle Paul was familiar with this verse, seeing that he earnestly studied the Hebrew Scriptures. With relation to this concept that "Öthe dead know not anything," Paul made the following statements:

"For we know, That if the tent of our earthy dwelling be taken down, we have a building from God, a house not made by hands, aionian, in the heavens. For indeed to this we are groaning, earnestly desiring to be invested with that habitation of our which is from [not Ďiní] heaven: surely, having been invested, we shall not be found destitute.

For, indeed, those being in the tent are groaning, being oppressed; in which we desire not to be divested [naked], but invested [clothed], that the mortal may be absorbed by LIFE. Now He Who has produced this for this same thing is that God Who has given to us the pledge of the Spirit.

Therefore, being always confident, and knowing that being at home in the body [our body, in the flesh] we are from home [our real home, our immortal home], away from the Lord; for we are walking by Faith, not by sight [ĎBlessed are they that have NOT seen, and yet have believedí John 20:29] But we are confident, and well-pleased rather to be separated from the body, and TO BE [not instantly, but at a future time] at home [with our new spiritual bodies like Christís] with the Lord" (II Cor. 5:1-8, Emphatic Diaglott).

Yes, Paul knew that once he died the next waking moment would be in resurrection with a new body (I Cor. 15:49), and although it would happen in an instant (from this life to the next life without missing a heart beat), in the twinkling of an eye (less than a second), nonetheless, it would have to wait until "the LAST TRUMPí (I Cor. 15:51). But to Paul from his perspective, it would only be but a moment in time, seeing that, "the living KNOW that they shall die, but the dead KNOW NOT ANYTHING."

"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that SLEPT" (I Cor. 15:20).

Soon we too shall be like Him and see our Creator as He is:

"Beloved now are we the sons of God, but it does not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that when He shall appear, we shall BE LIKE HIM; for we shall see Him as He is. And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as HE is pure" (I John 3:2-3)

Make no mistake: death is an enemy, but it is "being ABOLISHED" (I Cor. 15:26) by the One who has already had victory over it. And although we will never experience being dead, we certainly experience the loss of our loved ones who have died, and they will experience loss when we die.

So take courage: If you are reading this little article then you are alive, and that is all you will EVER KNOWÖ LIFE!


So, Death is Sleep, instead of Death being like Sleep as some might believe, when dead, we are
conscious of nothing and don't even know we are dead.

                                        Kind Regards, Samson.
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aqrinc

  • Guest
Re: alive in heaven/alive in hell
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2009, 05:47:41 PM »


Hi Kenny,

Is your question that you are looking for Scripture that prove presence with The Lord at death; or is there a question at all.

george. ???



i have been reading the lake of fire 3 and this is something i came across.

Just what is this human life on earth for, anyway? -- Why are we here? -- What is our purpose? -- What is Godís purpose for the Christian?

As children we are taught that Christian people live; they die; their souls go to heaven. Bad people live; they die; their souls go to hell. Live, die, go to heaven or live, die, go to hell.

So I guess this earth is a giant "soul factory." But the truth is that Christian souls do not go to heaven at death, neither do wicked souls go to hell at death. Contrary to all Christian belief, the Bible reveals (as does elementary science), that dead people are DEAD. What a revelation! Thatís right, boys and girls, living people are "ALIVE" and dead people are "DEAD." This is not rocket science!

If ALL the dead are either alive in hell or alive in heaven, who, pray tell, is God going to resurrect back to life from the dead when He returns to judge the world in righteousness? How can the dead be living in heaven or hell when they havenít as yet been judged as to where they should be living in the first place?


2 Co 5:8  We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
 i can not find to be absent from the body is to be with lord

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Marky Mark

  • Guest
Re: alive in heaven/alive in hell
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2009, 05:51:51 PM »

i have been reading the lake of fire 3 and this is something i came across.

Just what is this human life on earth for, anyway? -- Why are we here? -- What is our purpose? -- What is Godís purpose for the Christian?

As children we are taught that Christian people live; they die; their souls go to heaven. Bad people live; they die; their souls go to hell. Live, die, go to heaven or live, die, go to hell.

So I guess this earth is a giant "soul factory." But the truth is that Christian souls do not go to heaven at death, neither do wicked souls go to hell at death. Contrary to all Christian belief, the Bible reveals (as does elementary science), that dead people are DEAD. What a revelation! Thatís right, boys and girls, living people are "ALIVE" and dead people are "DEAD." This is not rocket science!

If ALL the dead are either alive in hell or alive in heaven, who, pray tell, is God going to resurrect back to life from the dead when He returns to judge the world in righteousness? How can the dead be living in heaven or hell when they havenít as yet been judged as to where they should be living in the first place?


2 Co 5:8  We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
i can not find to be absent from the body is to be with lord


Kenny,is this what you are inquiring about?

Email to Ray.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3202.0.html


  Hi Ray,
    could you please explain these scriptures to me,as I am haveing problems with them. I have been reading your Qs and Answeres and am becomming really confused.  Bob Briggs
    Paul's testimony that to be absent from the body is to be presant with Christ [2nd cor.5:8]. Those who die in the Lord in this age go immediately into the presence of the Lord. Those who die without Christ go to Hades, where there is torment [Luke 16:19-31]. They will later be brought from Hades to appear before the great white throne judgment, after which they will all be cast into the lake of fire and experience eternal damnation [Rev.20:11-15.
    

    Dear Bob:
    I get this same question every few days, year after year. First, there is NO such Scripture as is referenced in your email, and that is quoted a million times a day by Christian worldwide:  "To be absent from the body   IS   to be present with the lord."  Read it yourself. Here is what it says:
    
    "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body   AND TO BE   present with the Lord."
    
    The words "AND to be" puts this presence with the Lord at a time INTO THE FUTURE after Paul's death at a time of resurrection. Paul did not LIE when he taught us that He, like all saints, would be resurrected from the DEAD, not at his death, but AT THE LAST TRUMP (I Cor. 15:52).
    
    God be with you,
    Ray




Peace...Mark
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kenny

  • Guest
Re: alive in heaven/alive in hell
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2009, 06:09:59 PM »

not a problem Marques
it helps when some one tells me i need to adjust something
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kenny

  • Guest
Re: alive in heaven/alive in hell
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2009, 06:26:24 PM »

thanks my friends for the scipture and wittness, yes guys that is what i am am looking at
ouch!!!!!Fppmfpmmmfmp'fmm fmfpfm, Mmmpppfmpmmmmfffppmmmppp?
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