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Author Topic: thumos and orge  (Read 6973 times)

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ertsky

  • Guest
thumos and orge
« on: June 04, 2006, 05:59:10 AM »

i did a little study

wrath can be a problematic translation

there are two main greek words that are translated "wrath" in the KJV they are thumos and orge.

heres a thumos verse

Luk 4:28  And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,

wrath = thumos

thumos
Thayer Definition:
1) passion, angry, heat, anger forthwith boiling up and soon subsiding again
2) glow, ardour, the wine of passion, inflaming wine (which either drives the drinker mad or kills him with its strength)

seems to be speaking of inflamed passion

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here's an orge verse

Mat 3:7  But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

wrath = orge

orge¯
Thayer Definition:
1) anger, the natural disposition, temper, character
2) movement or agitation of the soul, impulse, desire, any violent emotion, but especially anger
3) anger, wrath, indignation
4) anger exhibited in punishment, hence used for punishment itself
4a) of punishments inflicted by magistrates

seems to be speaking of judgment

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both thumos and orge are employed in these verses

Rom 2:8  But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

indignation and wrath = thumos and orge

Rev 19:15  And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

fierceness and wrath = thumos and orge

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now this verse says

1Th 5:9  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

God has not appointed us to orge

and this verse says

Joh 3:36  He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

the orge of God abides on the unbeliever whereas he that endures to the end has age abiding life.

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1Th 1:10  And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

from the orge to come

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Rev 15:1  And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

thumos of God not orge of God

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thumos and orge

phew! all that was brought out by study i did after rereading just the first little bit of the Ray and Mike email exchange, even when they appear to disagree those two get me studying and learning :)

f

1Pe 2:19  For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.
1Pe 2:20  For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
1Pe 2:21  For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Heb 12:6  For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7  If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8  But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye ********, and not sons.
Heb 12:9  Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Heb 12:10  For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
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eutychus

  • Guest
thumos and orge
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2006, 11:22:51 AM »

Frank.

awsome im gonna use this thanks for the work.

nicely laid out!

much love
chuckt
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orion77

  • Guest
thumos and orge
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2006, 11:43:19 AM »

I agree, interesting study.  Thanks Frank.   8)

God bless,

Gary
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ertsky

  • Guest
thumos and orge
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2006, 02:26:21 PM »

more thumos and orge

Rev 14:10  The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

it's wine of the thumos of God

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Rom 9:22  What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

wrath is orge in both instances there

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so when wrath is spoken of there needs to be a clarification made are we talking about thumos or orge?

f
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JJ

  • Guest
thumos and orge
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2006, 03:22:57 PM »

Thank you, Frank, for sharing this study.
Very helpful.  Lots to think on.......
JJ
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Daniel

  • Guest
thumos and orge
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2006, 04:21:30 PM »

Great study, Giving room to wrath (not of man but Gods) is leaving room for vengeance which He recompenses. God repays with tribulation and anguish upon every soul that does evil. I see it as as here. Its double edged the righteous feel not evil thing. "These" actually have great joy in their tribulation being comforted, other the otherhand if you've done evil you will "feel it". Two parts of one whole cut assunder down the middle. Ones cut assunder appointed a "portion" which is a "part" which the hypocrits (here and now) the other having part in the city (here and now). Speaks in various ways concerning these things as His judgments are in the earth. God is not a respecter of persons.

Other words which play into the word "wrath" are interchanged with, "Vengeace", "recompense",  "recompensed"  "repay", "tribulation" and "indignation". Its all in the earth, its our own ways He returns back upon ourselves. How these are felt between the two is very different. One is comforted and joyful the other is not.

Great study, keep up the great work

Daniel
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