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Author Topic: Question: Does Satan know he has no freewill?  (Read 2789 times)

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mhykx

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Question: Does Satan know he has no freewill?
« on: March 19, 2009, 11:21:34 PM »

Hi guys!

I'm currently reading Part 3 of the Myth of Freewill.
A thought just came to my mind regarding the above subject.
I tried to search the site to know if there is already a thread that discussed this.
I couldn't find one.  Maybe I'm entering wrong keywords.

Could somebody lead me to discussion about the above question?
Or did Ray already answer this?

Thanks for all your help guys!
I really am overwhelmed by so great wisdom that a number of you already have.
To God all be the glory for that!

Your brother in Christ,
Mike

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mharrell08

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Re: Question: Does Satan know he has no freewill?
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2009, 12:07:49 AM »

No...he hasn't been converted yet.


Marques
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mhykx

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Re: Question: Does Satan know he has no freewill?
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2009, 12:22:43 AM »

No...he hasn't been converted yet.


Marques

So he keeps on deceiving and deceiving people thinking he's doing it by his own power or will uncaused by external influence/s.  Is this correct?
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mharrell08

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Re: Question: Does Satan know he has no freewill?
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2009, 01:26:26 AM »

So he keeps on deceiving and deceiving people thinking he's doing it by his own power or will uncaused by external influence/s.  Is this correct?


Yes, because again, he has not been converted yet.



Marques
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mhykx

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Re: Question: Does Satan know he has no freewill?
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2009, 01:52:46 AM »

Hi Marques!

Can you help me with passages in the Bible that discuss this?

Thanks a lot!

-Mike
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mharrell08

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Re: Question: Does Satan know he has no freewill?
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2009, 08:56:36 AM »

Hi Marques!

Can you help me with passages in the Bible that discuss this?

Thanks a lot!

-Mike


1 John 3:8  He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

John 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it

Rev 20:7 & 10  And whenever the thousand years should be finished, Satan will be loosed out of his jail...And the Adversary
[Satan] who is deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the wild beast and where the false prophet are also. And they shall be tormented day and night for the eons of the eons (CLV)



Marques
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kenny

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Re: Question: Does Satan know he has no freewill?
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2009, 09:09:13 AM »

Marques

converted yet ?   does he



No...he hasn't been converted yet.


Marques
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cherokee

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Re: Question: Does Satan know he has no freewill?
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2009, 09:28:52 AM »

Mike,
Here is a expert from The Myth of "Free Will" Exposed-Part C


SATAN AND THE ANGELS DID NOT HAVE “FREE-WILL”

Was Satan once an angelic cherub named “Lucifer” who used his supposed God-given free-will to rebel against God and thus become Satan the Devil?

It’s a fable. It never happened. It is a Christian hoax. Satan was never “good.” Satan was never “truthful.” Satan does not have free-will. Satan was always Satan, and nobody but Satan “…from the beginning.”

For proof that Satan was never an angelic cherub named “Lucifer,” see Installment IX. I will not take the time to re-write that proof here, however, we will look at Scriptural proof that Satan was Satan from the beginning, and that God created him as he is. Satan did not create himself or free-will himself into the Devil.

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” (Gen. 1;1).

We all know what the earth is. The heavens, however, is a different matter. The physical heaven is where we find the moon, sun, and stars. But God’s domain is a spiritual heaven.

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world [Gk: ‘age’], against spiritual [Gk: ‘spiritual powers of, or spiritual hosts of, or spiritual forces of’] wickedness in high places [Gk: ‘heavenly places’]” (Eph. 6:12).

So God created the plural “heavens” “in the beginning.” And Paul tells us that there are “principalities and powers” in these “heavenly places” or “celestials” as it is in the Greek. And that these “principalities and powers” are powers, hosts, or forces that are “wicked!”

“For by Him [Jesus] were all things created that are in the heaven [Gk: ‘heavens”—it is plural in the Greek as it is in the Hebrew], and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers ALL things were created by Him, and for Him” (Col. 1:16).

“Principalities and powers” are part of the “all” which Jesus created “in the beginning,” at the beginning of creation. And these “principalities and powers” are “wicked” forces, which we wrestle against. These powers are under authority.

“But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow does not cast out devils [demons], but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils” (Matt. 12:24).

Beelzebub is from the Hebrew, Baal [a Phoenician deity] and Zbuwb [a fly], thus the “god fly.” Couple this with the knowledge of where flies hang out, and in parody, Satan was known as the dung god. Fitting, I think. Jesus accepted their use of this title for Satan:

“And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand. And if Satan [referring back to Beelzebub introduced by the Pharisees] cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?” (Matt. 12:25-26).

Satan never was a cherub possessing free will; neither does he now have free will. Satan is a creature that obeys the commands of his Creator and never talks back. Whenever Jesus told Satan to “get thee behind Me,” Satan got behind Him (Matt. 16:23, Mark 8:33, Luke 4:8 ). When God said he could go so far and no further in the trial of Job, then that’s precisely how far he went and no further. When Jesus told Satan “get thee hence… then the devil leaves Him…” (Matt. 4:10). Satan has no “free will” to resist.


Hope this helps.
Suzie
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cherokee

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Re: Question: Does Satan know he has no freewill?
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2009, 09:43:05 AM »

Kenny,
Here are a couple email answers from Ray, and the links to them, that should help.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,736.0.html
Of course Satan will repent. That is the purpose for the lake of fire. ALL will repent--both those in the heavens and those on the earth (Phil. 2:9-11, Eph. 1:10, etc., etc).

God be with you,

Ray

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1622.0.html
First we must understand that Satan and his ministers reside in the heavens (Eph. 12:11, "the devil....against spiritual wickedness in high [Gk; epouranios--'celestials/heaven'] and the earth (Rev. 12:9 is not a one time occurance).

[1] "That in the dispensation of the fulnesss of times he might gather together in one ALL in the Christ, both that in the heavens and that in the earth" (Eph. 1:10, Concordant Literal New Testament).

[2] "For by Him were ALL things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible [Satan and demons] whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers [including 'principalities and powers' of Eph. 6:12] : all things were created by Him, and for Him...And, having made peace through the blood of the His cross, by Him to RECONCILE ALL unto Himself; by Him, I say whethe4r they be those in earth or those in heaven" (Col. 1:16 & 20).

[3] "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in HEAVEN, and those in EARTH, and those UNDER THE EARTH. And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ IS LORD [I Cor. 12:3b], to the glory of God the Father" (Col. 2:9-11).

[4] "...Behold the Lamb of God, which takes away the SIN OF THE WORLD" (John 1:29b).

[5] "For He [Jesus] must reign till He has put ALL ENEMIES [Satan is an enemy [Matt. 13:39] under His feet...that God may be ALL in All [that includes ALL God's creatures]" (I Cor. 15:25 & 28).

Etc., etc., etc.

God be with you,
Ray

Suzie
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mharrell08

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Re: Question: Does Satan know he has no freewill?
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2009, 09:47:22 AM »

Marques

converted yet ?   does he


Excerpt from Lake of Fire #12 'God judges the world in a pond' (http://bible-truths.com/lake12.html):

GOD’S MINISTERS ARE FLAMES OF FIRE

I showed you earlier that Jesus Christ is not only IN the lake of fire, He IS THE LAKE OF FIRE. He is the Divinity in this spiritual fire.

Ponder this:

Like Christ, we too are raised with a "SPIRITUAL body" (I Cor. 15:44).

We are in fact called, "the BODY of Christ" (Eph. 1:23).

We will literally "be LIKE Him [Christ]" (I John 3:2).

God will make us into "ministers [of] FLAMING FIRE" (Psalm 104:4).

We too then will be like our God, "a CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29).

God promises us that, "…the saints shall JUDGE THE WORLD…" and "we shall JUDGE ANGELS" (I Cor. 6:2-3)!

God tells us WHERE this judgment will take place:

"…they were judged every man according to their works," and "whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into THE LAKE OF FIRE" (Rev. 20:13 & 15).

Therefore, we, the Saints, the Body of Christ, the consuming fire ministers of God, the saviours of Mt. Zion, the manifested Sons and Daughters of God, along with our Head, Jesus Christ, also ARE THE LAKE OF FIRE!

THERE IS NO LITERAL LAKE, AND THERE IS NO LITERAL FIRE. Jesus Christ and His Body of Saints ARE THE LAKE OF JUDGING, PURIFYING, CONSUMING SPIRITUAL FIRE!!!

The lake of fire is a metaphor written in symbols that stand for what is being symbolized, not the symbols themselves. The lake of fire is composed of Jesus Christ the Judge of the world, Christ’s divine spiritual fire and brimstone, and the Sons of God who are the body of Christ who are also FLAMES OF FIRE (Heb. 1:7).

And the whole world will be judged BY US! After death, all the dead will be resurrected, they will all be judged, they will have to pass through the purifying lake of fire, they will have to PASS THROUGH US! WE will be their judge along with our Lord.

"Know ye not that the SAINTS SHALL JUDGE THE WORLD?"

And so, the GREAT SEA OF HUMANITY will be judged in the safety and security of the LAKE OF SAINTS!


And again:

Rev 20:7 & 10  And whenever the thousand years should be finished, Satan will be loosed out of his jail...And the Adversary [Satan] who is deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the wild beast and where the false prophet are also. And they shall be tormented day and night for the eons of the eons (CLV)


That's what it means to be 'cast into the lake of fire'...no one is literally 'thrown in'; they are to be purified which is symbolized with fire & sulphur (brimstone).


Marques

P.S.  Late edit: Thank you Suzie  :)
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cherokee

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Re: Question: Does Satan know he has no freewill?
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2009, 10:01:07 AM »

Quote
Marques

P.S.  Late edit: Thank you Suzie 
 
 
 

Your Welcome Marques.  ;)

Suzie
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mhykx

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Re: Question: Does Satan know he has no freewill?
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2009, 05:04:30 AM »

Hi Suzie,

Thanks for posting the part C of Myth of the Free Will.

Actually my question just came after reading the whole part C.

We, whom God has called out of Babylon, know that free will is a myth.  Men and Satan (and all the demons) do not have this.  But as most men don't realize that they don't have this freewill, does Satan also?

As Marques pointed out, Satan is not converted yet thus he doesn't know he has free will.  I believe this is the right answer.  But a part of me wonder.....aren't there people also that do believe that there is no freewill and yet not converted?


Marques,

How do the passages you mentioned prove that Satan DOES NOT know he has freewill?


Thanks for everybody's time!
-Mike
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Question: Does Satan know he has no freewill?
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2009, 08:05:42 AM »

We repent ( are converted, born again, confirmed to His image, reconcilled) in increments. http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3709.0.html

I can give you much more proof on this one verse, but more poof is not what we need. What we need is FAITH! FAITH to believe God: FAITH to believe Christ: FAITH to believe the Word! http://bible-truths.com/lake5.html

"If any man have an ear, LET HIM HEAR." What does God mean by "let him hear?" We just read it. Only those with God’s Spirit can discern spiritual things...http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html

No one can "see" words of "spirit" with eyes of flesh. If you are beginning to see the big picture of God’s salvation of all, and rejoice in that Truth, then God has given you "spiritual eyes to see spiritual words."http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html


WHAT DOES "SPIRITUAL" MEAN?

The American Heritage Dictionary, p. 1335, spiritual adj. 1. Of, relating in, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; NOT TANGIBLE OR MATERIAL.

Strong’s Greek Dictionary of the New Testament, "spiritual" #4152, pneumatkos, "Pneumatkos ALWAYS connotes the ideas of INVISIBILITY and of POWER" p. 205. (All CAPS are mine).

http://bible-truths.com/lake5.html

If any are interested to study the Keys to Spiritual interpretation you can turn to http://bible-truths.com/lake5.html

Arc
« Last Edit: March 21, 2009, 08:28:19 AM by Arcturus »
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mharrell08

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Re: Question: Does Satan know he has no freewill?
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2009, 09:47:44 AM »

Hi Suzie,

Thanks for posting the part C of Myth of the Free Will.

Actually my question just came after reading the whole part C.

We, whom God has called out of Babylon, know that free will is a myth.  Men and Satan (and all the demons) do not have this.  But as most men don't realize that they don't have this freewill, does Satan also?

As Marques pointed out, Satan is not converted yet thus he doesn't know he has free will.  I believe this is the right answer.  But a part of me wonder.....aren't there people also that do believe that there is no freewill and yet not converted?


Marques,

How do the passages you mentioned prove that Satan DOES NOT know he has freewill?


Thanks for everybody's time!
-Mike


There are few people that believe that freewill is a myth AND that God is all Sovereign...this is a spiritual truth and as the scriptures I gave you stated: 'there is NO truth in him' [Satan].


Marques
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mhykx

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Re: Question: Does Satan know he has no freewill?
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2009, 09:47:47 PM »

Thanks Marques!

I believe that answers my question.

-Mike
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