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Author Topic: Angry with God  (Read 2185 times)

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Sandyk

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Angry with God
« on: April 01, 2009, 03:44:28 PM »

Hi everyone

My name is Sandy this is my first time on this forum.  I am also somewhat angry with God.  I came across a website with  writings from L. Ray Smith. about three years ago.  I am trying to grasp the free will video.  Wondering if anyone else here has reviewed this video?  Ray states that God knows every chain of events but he does not make us do anything evil we are just sinning machines to me that is such a contradiction.  Why would a loving God let so many evil things happen?  





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Extol

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Re: Angry with God
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2009, 04:12:08 PM »

Hi Sandy,
 Welcome to the forum. The question you ask cannot be fully answered in just one e-mail, but here is a great e-mail that Ray wrote to a reader who asked questions similar to yours:

God is SPIRIT. God is interested ONLY in spiritual things. All this physical
creation is not something that God takes great pleasure in--it is but a means to an end.
Well, what does He want then? He wants CHILDREN! SPIRITUAL Sons and Daughters in HIS VERY
IMAGE!

But, how does He get them? Create them? Yes, CREATE them. But how does He create them.
Instantly? No. To be in the IMAGE of God means that we will have the very same CHARACTER
AND LOVE of God. Character and Love cannot be created instantly; it can only be developed
over a period of time under severe pressure and duress.  And so God creates severe
pressure and duress, which produces GODLY CHARACTER.  Imagine creating
"patience," INSTANTLY?  Why the very thought is self-contradicting. Patience by
its very nature means that something must be WAITED FOR even though it is desired NOW.

God knows what He is doing. Now then, there is a second part to all this. We ourselves
would never ever really appreciate the qualities of character, virtue, and love, that we
will possess if we did not have to "sweat blood" to get them. There is no
virtue that you can name that is not the result of overcoming some form of evil


"Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not EVIL AND GOOD?" (Lam. 3:38).

"...an experience of EVIL hath God given to the sons of man to humble him
thereby" (Ecc. 1:13, Concordant Translation).

"Or has not the potter [GOD] the right over the clay, out of the same kneading to
make one vessel, indeed, for honor, yet, on for DISHONOR?" (Rom. 9:19-25).

"...I [GOD] will bring EVIL from the north, and a GREAT DESTRUCTION" (Jer.
4:6).

"...Hear, O earth:  behold, I [GOD] will bring EVIL upon this people..." (Jer.
6:19).

"And he said, I [the lying spirit] will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his
prophets... and He [GOD] said, ...GO forth, and DO SO" (I Kg. 22:22).

"He [GOD] turned their heart to HATE HIS PEOPLE..." (Psa. 105:25).

"...Thus said the Lord; Behold, I FRAME EVIL AGAINST YOU, and devise a device
against you..." (Jer. 18:11).

"O LORD, why has THOU MADE US TO ERR from thy ways, and HARDENED OUR HEART from thy
fear?" (Isa. 63:17).

"...so shall the Lord bring upon you ALL EVIL THINGS, until he have destroyed
you..." (Josh. 23:15).

"...shall there be  EVIL in a city, and the LORD HAS NOT DONE IT?" (Am. 3:6).

"Thus saith the Lord of hosts... go and SMITE Amelek... DESTROY... SLAY both man and
woman, INFANT AND SUCKLING..." (I Sam. 15:2-3)


A great and wise creator GOD PUT US HERE. He started the human family.

God is not stupid, He had a grand and eternal purpose in mind for making mankind.

God has many attributes, powers, knowledge, etc., that obviously mankind DOES NOT. But,
God DOES WANT us to have those same attributes, especially LOVE!

Qualities of character such as Love are not instantaneously created, they must be
developed. That development takes a creation, circumstances, and time. And so, God
creates all these things necessary for their development.

Although God is GOOD, He nonetheless has a knowledge and understanding of both good AND
EVIL. And so we TOO much come to an understanding of both good and evil. Why? Because ALL
KNOWLEDGE hinges on their proper understanding.

People say things without ever realizing how stupid or impossible their thoughts or
statements are. Most Christians suppose that if Adam and Eve had not sinned, then we all
would STILL, right now, be enjoying the beautiful life of happiness and bliss in a
fabulous garden of Eden. NOT SO!!! Adam and Eve did  NOT appreciate what they had with
God in the garden before they sinned. They had NO CONTRAST to compare it with.

Now here is a key piece of understanding and wisdom. God wants CHILDREN. God is building
a FAMILY. Children are to grow up and have the attributes of their parents. But these
things must be LEARNED BY EXPERIENCE!  Not only didn't Adam and Eve appreciate what they
had, they ABSOLUTELY COULD NOT have appreciated what they had, because they experienced
ONLY GOOD.

Try to come up with even ONE VIRTUE, such as love, patience, honesty, goodness,
faithfulness, loyalty, obedience, bravery, etc., etc., etc., ANYTHING of a virtuous
nature, that does not involve the overcoming of SOME FORM OF EVIL! There is you answer!
There IS NO VIRTUE, NO CHARACTER, NO STABILITY of any kind in any one, except he
overcomes some form of EVIL.

Now can you see why we are here? Now can you see why there is not only good, but so much
evil in the world? It is necessary! God did not put it here simply to make us miserable!
God is NOT in a battle for supremacy with Satan. God CREATED Satan. God USES Satan. And
Satan too, will be saved after he has done all of his dirty work. God will make him
repent.

God is enlarging His family into BILLIONS of sons and daughters.  This life is part of
the training ground to be the very SONS OF GOD.

All evil including DEATH itself will be abolished when God has used them to bring His
family to a level of love and righteousness that He desires. We will then inherit all
that God has and all that God is. God is truly OUR FATHER.
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Marky Mark

  • Guest
Re: Angry with God
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2009, 04:13:46 PM »

Hi everyone

My name is Sandy this is my first time on this forum.  I am also somewhat angry with God.  I came across a website with  writings from L. Ray Smith. about three years ago.  I am trying to grasp the free will video.  Wondering if anyone else here has reviewed this video?  Ray states that God knows every chain of events but he does not make us do anything evil we are just sinning machines to me that is such a contradiction.  Why would a loving God let so many evil things happen?  







Quote
Ray states that God knows every chain of events but he does not make us do anything evil we are just sinning machines to me that is such a contradiction.  Why would a loving God let so many evil things happen? 





Hello Sandy and Welcome to the forum.

Please read this email to Ray.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2721.0.html

Ray,
My name is Bill, and I am a philosophy student at whittier college in california, and I stumbled across your site the other day and found it to be very interesting keep up the good work. Anyways... I was wondering how you deal with what philosophers call the problem of evil? If God is all knowing, all powerful, and all good, how can ther be evil in this world? If God knows of evil, which he does, because he is all knowing, and God hates evil, because he is all good, then why doesn't he destroy evil if he is all powerful? I personally beleive in the notion of free will, and have used that as a defense for the existance of God, by saying that the reason there is evil in the world, is because man freely chose evil, which is to go away from God's way. My beleif in free will is not based on scripture, but rather it is based on what I see in the world, and on the fact that I haven't been shown any scripture that directly says that there is no free will. Anyway s, what do you make of all this, what is the source of evil if not the free will of man?

Thanks,
Bill


Dear Bill:
It is amazing how we accept some laws of science and reject others. Maybe the formost edict in the universe is that for every effect there is a cause, and yet virtually no one believes it. Athiests reject it, and Christians abhor it. If your thoughts are "effects;" if your words are "effects:" if your actions are "effects," then WHAT IS THE CAUSE?  Your 'FREE" will?  How can thoughts, words, and actions be free if they are all CAUSED?  There is no such thing as "free" will/choice/moral agency, etc., etc. It is both a physiological impossibility and a Scriptural heresy.
 
"For it is GOD [who? man? NO, GOD] which works in you BOTH TO WILL AND TO DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).  See also Rom. 9:6. Since God knows the END from the beginning (Isa. 46:10) there is nothing in the universe "free" to take a difference action from that which God knows in advance it MUST TAKE.  How do we think God is able to tell the end from the beginning except that He controls all. OF COURSE men do not "approve" of God knowing all. It robs him of his idol of the heart and his supposed phantom "free will." All men have a will and all men make choices--millions of them, but not one if "free" to not be made. Even a non-choice is a choice to not choose, and it too is a caused thing.
 
Ministers tell people to REPENT and to COME to Christ and to CHOOSE Him.........freely! What utter nonsense and unscriptural foolishness. "NO MAN CAN COME TO ME....." (John 6:44). You have NOT CHOSEN ME, BUT I HAVE CHOOSEN YOU..."  (John 15:10). "Or DESPISE you the riches of His goodness and the forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that THE GOODNESS OF GOD leads you to repentance."  Man has NO FAITH IN GOD on his own. It is a gift, and we are God's workmanship [Gk: 'achievement'], not our own by our own free will ability (Eph. 2:10-11). A sinner cannot choose to stop sinning INDEPENDENT OF GOD (Jer. 13:23). Etc., etc., etc.
 
God CREATED evil (Isa. 45:6) and God USES evil all day long. Evil has no moral bias. Evil means to crush to pieces irrespective of any emotion. Men, of course, SIN when they use evil against another. God never sins when He uses evil.
 
It is part of the very purpose of our existence to "experience evil."  "...It is an EXPERIENCE OF EVIL Elohim [God] has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it" (Ecc. 1:12). Name me one virtue that is not the direct result of overcoming some form of evil?  Sorry, but I have hundreds of unanswered emails ahead of yours. Read the material on our site for the details. Read my four-part series "The Myth of Free Will Exposed" in Installment 15 of my "Lake of Fire" series near the top of our home page.
God be with you,
Ray
 




Hope this helped in your understanding


Peace...Mark

 
 
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Angry with God
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2009, 04:16:24 PM »

Sandyk
Quote
Hi everyone

My name is Sandy this is my first time on this forum.  I am also somewhat angry with God.  I came across a website with  writings from L. Ray Smith. about three years ago.  I am trying to grasp the free will video.  Wondering if anyone else here has reviewed this video?  Ray states that God knows every chain of events but he does not make us do anything evil we are just sinning machines to me that is such a contradiction.  Why would a loving God let so many evil things happen? 



Contradictions pop up when our carnal mind bumps against a sprititual truth.

Ray has said somewhere in his writings that MOST of the questions he recieves by email are ALL asking questions on what is percieved to be contradiction.

It is good to ask questions. It is good to seek. You ask 
Quote
Why would a loving God let so many evil things happen?
 

Firstly God does not LET so many evil things happen, God CAUSES evil circumstances to happen.Why? Because God is Love and He is giving us an experience of evil so that we can come to know and appreciate good.

Remember Gods ways are not our ways but you can be sure that God IS Love.


 from http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html

Itís interesting you take the most beautiful or handsome person in the world and you duplicate one side twice and flip it over.  So your whole face is exactly like the right side of your face and do the same with the left side, both sides.  And guess what?  Youíve never seen this?  It will scare you.  One side is when you duplicate it and flip it over, you look handsome or pretty.  And the other side you look ugly or mean or nasty or something.  Everybody.  Well you look at it now and say it looks the same on both sides.  But not when you duplicate it, itís a whole new person and itís not pretty.  What did that have to do with todayís lesson?  I thought it fit there someplace.

So this is the best that God can do , but itís not pretty and itís not fancy and itís not always happy.  Itís painful  and sad and much of our lives are misery, you know, laughing on the outside and crying on the inside.  Itís not always happy happy happy, but itís necessary.  Is it right, that God should put us through something like that?
We have no say about it, we didnít ask to be born and we didnít ask to get lung cancer or whatever.  We didnít ask for this, God puts us through it.  Is it fair for Him to do that?  Why is it fair?  Well there is something good in store.  But is it necessary that we would have to go through all of this bad first?  Itís true, you have to have the contrast.


WE all HAVE TO HAVE THE CONTRAST before we can know good from evil to become like God.

Arc

« Last Edit: April 01, 2009, 04:22:16 PM by Arcturus »
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myms

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Re: Angry with God
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2009, 05:51:09 PM »

I think we can get our heads round this need to have contrast, the hard thing to accept is when we feel our experince of evil is 100 times greater than someone else's!! Some people seem to suffer so much and others comparativly little, and there seems no rhyme or reason to it. Its hard sometimes to accept that we view it all from a human perspective and God views it very differently.
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judith collier

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Re: Angry with God
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2009, 06:12:04 PM »

I think sometimes we need to remember just how much suffering people go through and that we are not worthy to walk in their shoes. I do think maybe God does reward those with great sufferings more lasting joy to come. Judy
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EKnight

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Re: Angry with God
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2009, 10:28:25 PM »

I think we can get our heads round this need to have contrast, the hard thing to accept is when we feel our experince of evil is 100 times greater than someone else's!! Some people seem to suffer so much and others comparativly little, and there seems no rhyme or reason to it. Its hard sometimes to accept that we view it all from a human perspective and God views it very differently.

I am always questioning why my life seems to have much less tribulations than many others.  And I know that that could all change in the twinkling of an eye. However, I see it as a basis for worship.  When I see others suffering, it is a clear reminder of how truly blessed I have been and how grateful I should be and never to take it all for granted.

Eileen
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Samson

  • Guest
Re: Angry with God
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2009, 11:43:03 AM »

Hi everyone

My name is Sandy this is my first time on this forum.  I am also somewhat angry with God.  I came across a website with  writings from L. Ray Smith. about three years ago.  I am trying to grasp the free will video.  Wondering if anyone else here has reviewed this video?  Ray states that God knows every chain of events but he does not make us do anything evil we are just sinning machines to me that is such a contradiction.  Why would a loving God let so many evil things happen?  

Hi Sandyk,

              Below is an Email response of Ray's that describes some of the benefits gained from an experience
              of Evil, showing some of the contrasts between Good and Evil. I stumbled upon this Email this
              Morning from the front of Web page.

                                               Kind Regards, Samson.


             Dear Nameless:

Thank you for your email and questions.

There are billions and billions of people that God has not yet saved. Your questions is more basic than just why didn't God save those in the twin towers.

All of such things are examples of evil. God created evil for a purpose. So naturally He will not make evil inoperative at every turn in the road or there would have been no purpose in creating it in the first place.

Evil serves many noble purposes. One of which is a back drop for good. Good cannot be understood or certainly not appreciated without a backdrop of evil. Evil makes good appear even better and is certainly much more appreciated.

Evil is necessary for the production or development of good.  You cannot name one virtue that is not in some way produced by the resistance to some form of evil.

All knowledge is matter of contrast and relativity. One cannot know what light is unless he has been acquainted with darkness.  One has no conception of large unless he also knows of things that are small. Up is only up in relation to down. Life is the opposite of death, etc. To understand and fully appreciate all of these things, there are many necessary experiences to go through. God creates and puts us through these many things in the development of godly character.

All of these evils can be likened to the creation of a beautiful building. Ugly scaffolding is necessary in the construction of this building. It is ugly and serves no purpose other than in the actual construction of the building. When the building is completed, the scaffolding is torn down and discarded. It serves no further purpose. All evil will be discarded one day. And the last enemy, DEATH, will likewise be ABOLISHED FOR EVER (I Cor. 15:26) and God will "ALL in All"!!!

May God be with you and grant you wisdom and understanding.

Sincerely,

Ray








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