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Accountability and responsibility

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Ocean:
Hi anyone,

I've tried to read the email letters to Ray but cannot seem to open the letter regarding accountability and responsibility. I've been doing a lot of praying about this annoying habit of smoking  >:( i've become drawn to. I used to be a social smoker (only when I drink) but now its a daily habit. Been on/off this for 2-3 yrs now...but it seem to get worse.

I know that God has dealt with other major areas in my life [anger, bitterness, unforgiveness] that i have struggled with since childhood and i'm getting better and better at dealing with it. But this 'thorn' (smoking) has not been dealt with despite my many conversations with God and earnest prayers.

Am i responsible or accountable? I thought they were the same thing? :-\ PLS HELP!

Desperately seeking,
Ocean

Roy Coates:
Hey Ocean,
I will pray for your courage and strength in your struggle. Know that God is surely dealing with you about this and will give you what you need. I opened the link you were asking about and pasted below. Peace, Roy

God bless you Ray,

I want to first start off for thanking God for you and the website. The many truths that have been presented have helped me get out of my captive state that the church has had me in for a long time. I now want to have SCRIPTURES that back up EVERYTHING that I have been taught, because most of it has been presented to me from the "faulty" King James and that has caused me to believe (and teach) in error.   

Upon reading your paper on free will, I came across this quote and I would like more clarification.

"The only One in the universe Who is responsible [able to respond] is God And so, God takes full responsibility for everything even though He holds man accountable for his deeds. Man is accountable for his deeds, not because he could have done otherwise, but because he thinks he is responsible through his presumed free will. Because he actually did the things he did. However, the Scriptures tell us that, "not in all" is this knowledge. Puny man really thinks he is in control of his own destiny. He really thinks he is a "god unto himself." And the Christian Church hasn't done very much to educate him out of this dilemma."

My Question is: How then (or why) is it that if there is no such thing as free will, there is such a thing as accountability? For if God is in control of everything, and He has done everything "according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His Will" - then how can we be held accountable for the things that we "do"?

Respectfully,

Chris

[Ray Replies]

Dear Chris:

You ask how one is held "accountable" when he only did what he HAD to do? I actually do answer this in my paper, but let me relate it for you.  God has NOT given man 'free' will (the ability to make UNCAUSED choices), all of man's choices are CAUSED BY SOMETHING. But the man DOES MAKE THE CHOICES!

When you or I are confronted with a decision to either do something that we know is right, or know is wrong, we weight the options and MAKE THE CHOICE. God has absolutely given man a brain that has the ability to process information. Man CAN process information and make a choice. But it is the information itself the causes the choice one way or the other. The man cannot make a choice WITHOUT some form of information that influences or ultimately CAUSES him to make a choice. NO ONE MAKES US MAKE THE CHOICE, even other unforeseen circumstances and information DOES MAKE OR CAUSE US TO CHOOSE!  True, circumstances beyond our control, which we do not see or even perceive, do cause us to MAKE a choice, but ... BUT, IN OUR OWN HEART AND MIND, WE MAKE THE CHOICE -- not someone else or something else.

But "it's all GOD" Who is ACTUALLY doing it, isn't it? NO, YOU, ACTUALLY, ARE THE ACTIVE PARTICIPANT WHO IS DOING IT! God merely brings about the circumstances that INFLUENCE AND CAUSE YOU TO DO IT! 

Now then, pay close attention to what I am saying:  Why are we held accountable for something that we absolutely COULD NOT HAVE AVOIDED?  Why?   Because at the time we made the 'voluntary' (not absolutely 'FREE,' but 'voluntary') CHOICE, it was in OUR heart and in OUR mind to DO SO. And if the choice was WRONG, or SINFUL, then WE, not GOD, must be held accountable. God takes the "responsibility" for what we did -- hence He DIED ON A CROSS FOR US, but WE are accountable for our SINFUL WRONG CHOICES.

This is the only way man will LEARN right from wrong! Adam and Eve were 'TOLD' right from wrong, but not until they actually 'EXPERIENCED' right and wrong, did it make sense to them.  IT IS WRONG TO SIN WHETHER WE WERE COERCED TO COMMIT SIN OR NOT.   "The DEVIL MADE me do it." It matters not, YOU DID IT and are therefore accountable.

Juveniles commit MILLIONS of crimes and sins for which they are not RESPONSIBLE. But, nonetheless, our own court system HOLDS THEM ACCOUNTABLE. And even human, carnal, judges take this factor into consideration when handing out penalties.

It is the PENALTY that also CAUSES US TO CHOOSE RIGHTLY after we have chosen WRONGLY! When we burn our fingers on a hot stove, we LEARN to not touch a hot stove.

God has developed a "ways and means" to accomplish His righteous end, plan, and purpose. And God's ways are VERY WISE -- they WORK, and they work very well!  We have this absolute promise from God:

"When Thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world, WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9)!!!

God be with you,

Ray

Ocean:
Thanks Roy for that link. I'm still trying to wrap my brains  >:( around this one. The hardest part of understanding my 'thorn' is that it was a social habit before but now its a 'pain' ???. I don't have a thrill to drink often anymore [used to be a Fri night ritual] but my smoking has just gone worse  :o 

I remember one of the 'biggies' i thought could NEVER be dealt with was harboring unforgiveness. I had mastered the 'art' ;) of keeping a tally of those who had wronged me....i would distance myself from them and hit-back (verbally) when the opportunity presents itself...off course inflating the situation while at it. Now, only through God's power has He given me the heart to be quick to forgive and be able to save the relationship, no matter how badly i've been wronged. I've realized [after the incident] that my 'enemies' have come to respect me even when they don't necessarily agree with me. It has had a huge positive change in my relationship with others...starting from my own family.

I have prayed many times about this habit, know the health risks, don't believe in free-will and the body being God's temple etc etc....but why is it that i cannot seem to stop my 'fleshly' desire  ???

Roy, i appreciate your prayers and help here...thanks :)

Still Hopeful,
Ocean

judith collier:
Ocean, it's the urges we can't deal with as they are so powerful because our bodies are addicted to nicotine. I almost quit once just paying attention to those awful urges. They come about every 20 min. but they do lose power after awhile and the urges are farther apart. Someone said that quitting smoking was harder than getting off heroin. I, too, have prayed but actually fear of failure stops me from trying to quit again. The urges undo me. I can't even think straight and I spin my wheels not getting anything done. So, I asked God if he didn't see to delivering me from this at least don't let me die from it as I am afraid of not getting my breath.I got leukemia instead now. Just great!! I told God I didn't think that was funny!! For some reason this disease doesn't scare me and I don't worry about it, I have peace with it and believe if God wants me to go this way so be it.

mhykx:
Ocean,

I once thought they are the same.

But as I study the word of God, read the stuff here in B-T, ask from God the Father the wisdom and understanding, I began to understand the difference between the two.  And you will too, Ocean.  Just be patient.

The subject of free will alone is fascinating....and liberating!  When you begin to understand the sovereignty of God, you begin to have true peace of mind because you no longer depend on your own strength but in grace and mercy of God.

God, in due time, will direct you to steps on how you can quit your smoking.

Heb 4:16  Let us have confidence, then, and approach God's throne, where there is grace. There we will receive mercy and find grace to help us just when we need it.

-Mike

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