Work Out your Own Salvation

[aqrinc]

Php 2: 12-13 (ASV)
12  So then, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
13  for it is God who worketh in you both to will and to work, for his good pleasure.

Why is this Scripture so misquoted even by many who say they understand GOD'S Word. Almost everywhere this Scripture is quoted people put the emphasis on (working out your own salvation).

Paul is saying no such thing here; instead the emphasis is on the second verse (13) for it Is GOD Who Worketh in you.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2199.msg17726.html#msg17726

Excerpt from Questions.

3. If even our Faith is a gift from God why does it say in Philippians 2:12 "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Is our Faith which leads to salvation from ourselves or from God?
     

    COMMENT: "ALL is of God" (II Cor. 5:18, Rom. 11:36, etc.).  Salvation is incorporated into the process of living.  We are made to live.  We have to live.  We HAVE to make decisions and choices in life:  it is forced upon us by the very nature of things.  But although we are made to live out our individual experiences of life, behind it all is God.  We "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling," not because we have the ability to do so independent of God, but rather because of what we are told in the next verse:  "For [for means BECAUSE--here is the REASON we work out our own salvation]...For it is GOD which workies in you BOTH TO WILL AND TO DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).
     
    God be with you,
    Ray

george.

[Akira329]

Many pastors and ministers miss this. Free will gets in the way every time!


Antaiwan

[aqrinc]

Many pastors and ministers miss this. Free will gets in the way every time!


Antaiwan

Or just tear these verses out so we do not need to make any embarrasing retractions in the sermon on sunday.

Eph 2: 1-10 (YLT)
1  Also you--being dead in the trespasses and the sins,
2  in which once ye did walk according to the age of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience,
3  among whom also we all did walk once in the desires of our flesh, doing the wishes of the flesh and of the thoughts, and were by nature children of wrath--as also the others,
4  and God, being rich in kindness, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5  even being dead in the trespasses, did make us to live together with the Christ, (by grace ye are having been saved,)
6  and did raise us up together, and did seat us together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7  that He might show, in the ages that are coming, the exceeding riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus,
8  for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you--of God the gift,
9  not of works, that no one may boast;
10  for of Him we are workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God did before prepare, that in them we may walk.

george.

[EKnight]

Php 2: 12-13 (ASV)
12  So then, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
13  for it is God who worketh in you both to will and to work, for his good pleasure.

Why is this Scripture so misquoted even by many who say they understand GOD'S Word. Almost everywhere this Scripture is quoted people put the emphasis on (working out your own salvation).

Paul is saying no such thing here; instead the emphasis is on the second verse (13) for it Is GOD Who Worketh in you.


george.

It is the "fear and trembling" that I don't understand in this verse.  Could someone explain this for me?

Eileen

[aqrinc]

Php 2: 12-13 (ASV)
12  So then, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
13  for it is God who worketh in you both to will and to work, for his good pleasure.

Why is this Scripture so misquoted even by many who say they understand GOD'S Word. Almost everywhere this Scripture is quoted people put the emphasis on (working out your own salvation).

Paul is saying no such thing here; instead the emphasis is on the second verse (13) for it Is GOD Who Worketh in you.


george.

It is the "fear and trembling" that I don't understand in this verse.  Could someone explain this for me?

Eileen

Eileen,

This is not as hard as we have been taught, but as long as we see the Words (Spirit) and think with our understanding (carnal) we will keep working for something we can never achieve of ourselves; and get more fearful as we see how futile our best efforts are.

Really really read all the words and understand what this Scripture is saying to you and me and all who read it.

Php 2: 12-13 (ASV)
12  So then, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; (this is a semi colon; not the end of the sentence)


13  for (because) it is God who worketh in you both to will and to work, for his good pleasure.

But if you think it (your own salvation is of yourself to work out); then work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

george.

[mharrell08]

It is the "fear and trembling" that I don't understand in this verse.  Could someone explain this for me?

Eileen

Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,373.0.html):

Dear John and Blanca:
I get many questions such as yours. I presently have over 400 unanswered emails waiting on me. Unfortunately, I cannot even begin to explain the whole plan of God to you in an email, and then explain the process of conversion, overcoming, living a godly life, etc., etc., etc., in an email. It would take me days.

Understand this: It is GOD Who is directing your life, and He caused you to come to our site. There is a lot of information on our site. Unfortunately only a handful of people have ever read all the material on our site. If you will read all the material on our site, most of your questions will be answered.

No one showed me how to repent. No one showed me how to overcome. No one showed me how to conquer sin. God did it in me, for me. There was a time when I too felt helpless and didn't know what to do. I knew there was a God, but I didn't know how to really contact Him, and so basically I learned that it was He who contacted me--in HIS TIME.

I have people asking me to "Please explain the Bible to me, Ray."  Or: "Show me how to do God's perfect will so that I will be happy and have purpose in my life."

I can't really do these things. Here is what Paul instructs us:  "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence [Paul was now in prison in Rome, and would never see these Philippians again] , WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING."  Why?

"For [because] it is GOD which works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasre" (Phil. 2:12-12).

This sounds like a contradiction to most people. The reason that we "work out our own slavation with fear and trembling" is because it is ALL OF GOD.
We cannot look to our own devices or works--only God can and will save us. You MUST rely on God IN FAITH for all of these things in your life. God will CAUSE you to work all these things out in your life.  I will help as much as lies within me, but I cannot give you all the answers in an email, and I have too many email to write long essay type answers. Hope you understand.
God be with you,
Ray

Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3252.msg24198.html#msg24198):

Dear Jennifer:
        We ALL have been in your situation where we didn't know where or how to turn to straighten out our lives. Truth is, you are right where God wants you. And I will not deliver you from your troubles. If I could or if I were to do that, you would then LOOK TO ME as some great one who has the answers to life and how to apply them to be spiritually strong and happy. No, Jennifer, you must go to God. God is your Saviour. I can encourage you, I can pray to God that you stay faithful to what you are learning, but your must "Work out YOUR OWN salvation with fear and trembling.....for [BECAUSE] it is GOD [and ONLY GOD] which works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:12-13).
         
        If you are reading and studying and praying and obeying the things you are learning on our site, then you are on the right road and God will ultimately give you the victory  over your sins and weaknesses just as He is doing with the rest of His called and chosen elect. God IS ALREADY showing you how to repent of leaving your "First Love." That is WHY you are feeling as you are. It is because God is calling all this to your spiritual attention. You would never change or overcome if God didn't first put you in the position you are now in. What may appear as a dead-end street to you now, Jennifer, is only the temporary detour to the highway of spiritual recovery and growth.  Don't become discouraged in well-doing. God is able to bring you through all this.
        God be with you,
        Ray


Hope this helps,

Marques

[EKnight]

Thanks Marques, it helped a lot.  Ray is correct, it does sound contradictory and whenever something sounds like a contradiction, I know that it is not and there is an explanation.  God is good. 

Eileen

[Phil3:10]

To All,
When we all learn that everything is of GOD. HE wills, HE works, HE fulfills, HE does it all. I have spent much of this day reviewing and re-reading the first 5 installments of Ray's Lake of Fire series. What a wonderful blessing it has been to me and again I printed out many pages to pass on as I have in the past. However, I have learned that whatever I may do, with good intentions, that only GOD can bring about any increase. It may be that this is not HIS pleasure at this time but I am comforted in knowing that HE is the SAVIOR of all mankind and will accomplish HIS will in HIS time frame. HIS victory is assured, HIS will is going to happen, and HIS love is for all time.
Praise HIS Holy NAME,
Phil3:10

[aqrinc]

Phil3:10,

You are so correct in stating what you have learned, By The Holy Spirit, (Comforter) Guiding and Teaching you, what is Right And Good In The Sight Of GOD And Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ray has done a masterful job of showing us; through The Holy Spirit Teaching; what The Scriptures are Saying to us daily. We as students being tutored; need to not only learn what is shown to us; we must be eager to grow in Grace and Faith and Humility daily. Otherwise what use are we to Our Master Jesus Christ; if we bear little or no fruit; when we are given a commission to finally go out and do His Work.

Mat 9: 37-38 (MKJV)
37  Then He said to His disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the laborers are few.
38  Therefore pray to the Lord of the harvest that He will send out laborers into His harvest.

For those who have been Given eyes to see, and ears to hear, and a heart that is after GOD; it is no more fear and trembling. Instead it is: ABBA, Thank You And What Would You Have me do.

To everyone else who has not the truth; it is: work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; because when you fail, and you know you will; then where is salvation going to come from. If not from GOD, In Jesus Christ, what other name is given anywhere in The Scriptures, whereby we Must be saved.

Dan 3:29 (KJV)
Therefore I make a decree, That every people, nation, and language, which speak any thing amiss against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, shall be cut in pieces, and their houses shall be made a dunghill: because there is no other God that can deliver after this sort.

Act 4:12 (KJV)
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

So to sum it up; run to GOD'S (Safe Harbor) Jesus Christ; or work it out yourself, in fear and trembling; which is bound to fail.

george .

[EKnight]

Since it is God who works in us to both will and do of His good pleasure, then couldn't this verse about fear and trembling be referring to the chastisement/trial and tribulations that inevitably lead believers to salvation and bring us closer to becoming more like Christ?  After all, Paul is speaking to believers.  And secondly, if the process includes being "crucified" with Christ, and we have seen all that Christ had to go through to learn obedience, then it would make sense that this fear and trembling is in regard to the journey toward salvation because it is beyond our control.

Eileen

[mharrell08]

Since it is God who works in us to both will and do of His good pleasure, then couldn't this verse about fear and trembling be referring to the chastisement/trial and tribulations that inevitably lead believers to salvation and bring us closer to becoming more like Christ?  After all, Paul is speaking to believers.  And secondly, if the process includes being "crucified" with Christ, and we have seen all that Christ had to go through to learn obedience, then it would make sense that this fear and trembling is in regard to the journey toward salvation because it is beyond our control.

Eileen

Correct, right on Eileen...exactly how Ray explains in the email above:

Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,373.0.html):

Dear John and Blanca:
I get many questions such as yours. I presently have over 400 unanswered emails waiting on me. Unfortunately, I cannot even begin to explain the whole plan of God to you in an email, and then explain the process of conversion, overcoming, living a godly life, etc., etc., etc., in an email. It would take me days.

Understand this: It is GOD Who is directing your life, and He caused you to come to our site. There is a lot of information on our site. Unfortunately only a handful of people have ever read all the material on our site. If you will read all the material on our site, most of your questions will be answered.

No one showed me how to repent. No one showed me how to overcome. No one showed me how to conquer sin. God did it in me, for me. There was a time when I too felt helpless and didn't know what to do. I knew there was a God, but I didn't know how to really contact Him, and so basically I learned that it was He who contacted me--in HIS TIME.

I have people asking me to "Please explain the Bible to me, Ray."  Or: "Show me how to do God's perfect will so that I will be happy and have purpose in my life."

I can't really do these things. Here is what Paul instructs us:  "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence [Paul was now in prison in Rome, and would never see these Philippians again] , WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING."  Why?

"For [because] it is GOD which works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasre" (Phil. 2:12-12).

This sounds like a contradiction to most people. The reason that we "work out our own slavation with fear and trembling" is because it is ALL OF GOD.
We cannot look to our own devices or works--only God can and will save us. You MUST rely on God IN FAITH for all of these things in your life. God will CAUSE you to work all these things out in your life.  I will help as much as lies within me, but I cannot give you all the answers in an email, and I have too many email to write long essay type answers. Hope you understand.
God be with you,
Ray

The reason we, as believers, work out in fear and trembling is because it's all up to God...not because of disobedience.


Marques

[EKnight]

Okay, that makes sense.

I thought that when George said:

This is not as hard as we have been taught, but as long as we see the Words (Spirit) and think with our understanding (carnal) we will keep working for something we can never achieve of ourselves; and get more fearful as we see how futile our best efforts are.

He was saying that if we try to save ourselves (or at least we think we are doing it ourselves) that that causes us our fear.

Now I think I've got it.  Now just pray I remember it.

Eileen

[Kat]

Hi Eileen,

Php 2:12  Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

I think this verse in 2 Corinthians is saying the same thing, a second witness.

2Co 7:1  Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, and make holiness perfect in the fear of God.

We are taught over and over in Scripture to "fear God."

1Peter 2:17  Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear5399 God. Honor the king.

G5399 Fear - phobeō
to frighten, that is, (passively) to be alarmed; by analogy to be in awe of, that is, revere: - be (+ sore) afraid, fear (exceedingly), reverence.

We read in the OT that to "fear God" is the whole duty of man.

Ecc 12:13  The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear3372 God, and keep his commandments; for this is the whole duty of man.

H3372 fear - yârê'
A primitive root; to fear; morally to revere; causatively to frighten: - affright, be (make) afraid, dread (-ful), (put in) fear (-ful, -fully, -ing). (be had in) reverence (-end), X see, terrible (act, -ness, thing).

And here is why we should fear God.

Psa 111:10  The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom;
      A good understanding have all those who do His commandments.
      His praise endures forever.

Pro 1:7  The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge,
      But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Pro 9:10  "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,
      And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

Pro 15:33  The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom,
      And before honor is humility.

Pro 2:1  My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you,
v. 2  making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding;
v. 3  yes, if you cry out for insight and raise your voice for understanding,
v. 4  if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures;
v. 5  then you will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God.

And back to the original Scripture to sum it up.

Php 2:13  for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

I hope this is helpful.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Marky Mark]

Kat,

  Thank you, that is a wonderful piece of work on the Fear of God. You are a word smith indeed,very very helpful. .



Peace...Mark

 

[Marlene]

Kat, That, is perfect scriptures. I fear what God can do to me. I rather obey now and avoid his wrath. Not obeying God is what led Israel to loose out. But, they for sure and the rest of the world will be brought to obey. The only way we can obey now is all him. Without, him doing the works in us we cannot obey. We have to obey till the end. Thanks for those scriptures.

In His Love,
Marlene

[EKnight]

Your underlined definitions of "fear" have shed a whole new light (for me) on the term "fear God"

Thanks Kat.

Eileen

[Phil3:10]

To All,
Fear and respect are both earned. We all should fear GOD, but I choose to think that my respect, love and reverence for the CREATOR OF EVERYTHING is most important. As Kat said, and the Scriptures point out so vividly this is the beginning of knowledge and wisdom. I am 67 years old and I am so sorry that real wisdom did not come to me until after my 45th year. The only consolation is that it is GOD who works in me both to will and do HIS good pleasure.

[kenny]

I can't remember the exact email i got this from but i believe it fits here.

COMMENT: "ALL is of God" (II Cor. 5:18, Rom. 11:36, etc.).  Salvation is incorporated into the process of living.  We are made to live.  We have to live.  We HAVE to make decisions and choices in life:  it is forced upon us by the very nature of things.  But although we are made to live out our individual experiences of life, behind it all is God.  We "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling," not because we have the ability to do so independent of God, but rather because of what we are told in the next verse:  "For [for means BECAUSE--here is the REASON we work out our own salvation]...For it is GOD which workies in you BOTH TO WILL AND TO DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).
     
    God be with you,
    Ray


We live because we Believe.
Mat 26:39  And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
For it is GOD which workies in you BOTH TO WILL AND TO DO of His good pleasure"



Kenny 

[Roy Martin]

Welcome back Kenny.

Roy