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Ecc 9:5 vs-
Mando:
Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die; but the dead do not know anything; nor do they have any more a reward, for their memory is forgotten.
here are some verses that Christiandom uses to say that there is "fully conscious" in Sheol........
Isa 14:9 Sheol from below is stirred for you, to meet you at your coming; it stirs up the departed spirits for you, all the he goats of the earth. It has raised all the kings of the nations from their thrones.
Isa 14:10 All of them shall answer and say to you, Are you also made as weak as we? Are you likened to us?
Eze 32:21 The strong of the mighty shall speak to him from the midst of Sheol, they went with his helpers; they, the uncircumcised, lie slain by the sword.
Jon 2:2 And he said, I cried out to Jehovah from my distress. And He answered me. Out of the belly of Sheol I cried for help, and You heard my voice.
according to Ecc 9:5, there is NOTHING going on in Sheol. But in Isa. 14:9-10 and Eze 32:21 and Jon 2:2, it looks like there's some action going on.
if anyone can give me an explanation or lead me to any of Ray's teaching that touch these verses.
Thanks
Mando
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: Mando on April 23, 2009, 02:39:37 AM ---Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die; but the dead do not know anything; nor do they have any more a reward, for their memory is forgotten.
here are some verses that Christiandom uses to say that there is "fully conscious" in Sheol........
Isa 14:9 Sheol from below is stirred for you, to meet you at your coming; it stirs up the departed spirits for you, all the he goats of the earth. It has raised all the kings of the nations from their thrones.
Isa 14:10 All of them shall answer and say to you, Are you also made as weak as we? Are you likened to us?
Eze 32:21 The strong of the mighty shall speak to him from the midst of Sheol, they went with his helpers; they, the uncircumcised, lie slain by the sword.
Jon 2:2 And he said, I cried out to Jehovah from my distress. And He answered me. Out of the belly of Sheol I cried for help, and You heard my voice.
according to Ecc 9:5, there is NOTHING going on in Sheol. But in Isa. 14:9-10 and Eze 32:21 and Jon 2:2, it looks like there's some action going on.
if anyone can give me an explanation or lead me to any of Ray's teaching that touch these verses.
Thanks
Mando
--- End quote ---
FYI: 'An Encouraging Thought about Death' (http://bible-truths.com/death.htm)
Marques
Marky Mark:
--- Quote from: Mando on April 23, 2009, 02:39:37 AM ---Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die; but the dead do not know anything; nor do they have any more a reward, for their memory is forgotten.
here are some verses that Christiandom uses to say that there is "fully conscious" in Sheol........
Isa 14:9 Sheol from below is stirred for you, to meet you at your coming; it stirs up the departed spirits for you, all the he goats of the earth. It has raised all the kings of the nations from their thrones.
Isa 14:10 All of them shall answer and say to you, Are you also made as weak as we? Are you likened to us?
Eze 32:21 The strong of the mighty shall speak to him from the midst of Sheol, they went with his helpers; they, the uncircumcised, lie slain by the sword.
Jon 2:2 And he said, I cried out to Jehovah from my distress. And He answered me. Out of the belly of Sheol I cried for help, and You heard my voice.
according to Ecc 9:5, there is NOTHING going on in Sheol. But in Isa. 14:9-10 and Eze 32:21 and Jon 2:2, it looks like there's some action going on.
if anyone can give me an explanation or lead me to any of Ray's teaching that touch these verses.
Thanks
Mando
--- End quote ---
Email to Ray. Hope it helps.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3121.0.html
If you believe that life and consciousness do not exist after death according to Ecclesiastes 9:5 how would you explain Isa. 14:9-11 Ezek: 32:21and Rev.6:9-11, comparing scripture with scripture. God Bless Eddie
Dear Eddie:
Some things can be "explained," but may not be able to be "proved." I can tell you that all of these Scriptures are in "figurative" rather than "literal" language, but that does not means that you will believe me, anymore than when I showed "plucking out one's eye or cutting of one's hand" in accordance with Christ's admonition concerning offensive sins, was believed by those who read it. I received comments that these admonitions were indeed LITERAL, even though they conceded that we are not to LITERALLY pluck out our physical eyes, etc.
How, for example does "pomp" go to the grave (or sheol)? It is, of course, FIGURATIVE. If these verses in figurative language are literal, then we must concede that such verses as Gen. 4:10 are literal: "...the VOICE of your brother's BLOOD cries unto Me from the ground." Someone might actually claim that blood is immortal, and although spilled on the ground, and completely dried up, nonetheless, is still alive and......AND POSSESSES VOCAL CORDS AND CAN SPEAK!!
God be with you,
Ray
Peace...Mark
Kat:
Hi Mando,
Jonah 2:2 And he said:
"I cried out to the LORD because of my affliction,
And He answered me.
"Out of the belly of Sheol I cried,
And You heard my voice.
This is Jonah and he is comparing being in the fishes belly to being in the grave. I think unless God saves him it actually would be his grave.
Eze 32:21 The strong among the mighty
Shall speak to him out of the midst of hell
With those who help him:
"They have gone down,
They lie with the uncircumcised, slain by the sword.'
As the email that Mark pointed out this verse in Ezekiel would be 'figurative.' It's not a real conversation.
Isa 14:9 Sheol from below is stirred for you, to meet you at your coming; it stirs up the departed spirits for you, all the he goats of the earth. It has raised all the kings of the nations from their thrones.
v. 10 All of them shall answer and say to you, Are you also made as weak as we? Are you likened to us?
Chapter 14 in Isaiah seem to be referring to the time when Christ will be ruling the earth. Verse 9 I think is speaking of the resurrection of the dead, "Sheol (grave) from below is stirred for you, to meet you at your coming." Indeed all of the former "kings of the nations" will be made weak when Christ is ruling the earth.
Just thought I would give you my perspective on this, hope it was helpful.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
EKnight:
Kat,
Great commentary. I kept reading the whole chapters of each of these verses and wasn't quite sure of what I was reading. Like I have said in another thread, it is hard for me to see "Christ" in the OT sometimes. Regarding Isa 14:9, I was certain it was speaking of Christ so it's good to have it confirmed and I'm glad I was able to see this on my own first.
I hope Mando can see this truth. When a verse like Ecc 9:5 is so clear cut, and all God's words are true, you know that if you see another verse that appears to contradict, there has to be an explanation. I find that the explanations are almost always because the passages are being read too literally. Once read figuratively or metaphorically, things become clear and harmonic.
Eileen
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