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Ecc 9:5 vs-
daywalker:
--- Quote from: Mando on April 23, 2009, 02:39:37 AM ---Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die; but the dead do not know anything; nor do they have any more a reward, for their memory is forgotten.
here are some verses that Christiandom uses to say that there is "fully conscious" in Sheol........
Isa 14:9 Sheol from below is stirred for you, to meet you at your coming; it stirs up the departed spirits for you, all the he goats of the earth. It has raised all the kings of the nations from their thrones.
Isa 14:10 All of them shall answer and say to you, Are you also made as weak as we? Are you likened to us?
Eze 32:21 The strong of the mighty shall speak to him from the midst of Sheol, they went with his helpers; they, the uncircumcised, lie slain by the sword.
Jon 2:2 And he said, I cried out to Jehovah from my distress. And He answered me. Out of the belly of Sheol I cried for help, and You heard my voice.
according to Ecc 9:5, there is NOTHING going on in Sheol. But in Isa. 14:9-10 and Eze 32:21 and Jon 2:2, it looks like there's some action going on.
if anyone can give me an explanation or lead me to any of Ray's teaching that touch these verses.
Thanks
Mando
--- End quote ---
- The first problem is that the Church has gotten far too comfortable with teaching Bible Contradictions. They won't openly admit that it contradicts, but their doctrines prove that they believe that it does.
- The verses from Ezekiel and Isaiah are prophecies. They are visions, they are figurative, not literal events. The entire Book of Revelations is a prophecy from a vision. The Church has no concept of figurative speech; they need to go back to Grade School. ???
- The verse in Jonah is from when Jonah was in the belly of the giant fish. Unless all wicked people will live eternally in the belly of a super-gigantic fish :o, then this has nothing to do with Sheol/Hell... literally...
Hope that helps, friend.
- Daywalker. 8)
Mando:
thanks for all your replies. I knew I would get much feedback. We always need to question everything and this is just one example of me doing so. Thanks again.
respectfully
Mando
Akira329:
--- Quote from: daywalker on April 23, 2009, 03:03:21 PM ---
--- Quote from: Mando on April 23, 2009, 02:39:37 AM ---Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die; but the dead do not know anything; nor do they have any more a reward, for their memory is forgotten.
here are some verses that Christiandom uses to say that there is "fully conscious" in Sheol........
Isa 14:9 Sheol from below is stirred for you, to meet you at your coming; it stirs up the departed spirits for you, all the he goats of the earth. It has raised all the kings of the nations from their thrones.
Isa 14:10 All of them shall answer and say to you, Are you also made as weak as we? Are you likened to us?
Eze 32:21 The strong of the mighty shall speak to him from the midst of Sheol, they went with his helpers; they, the uncircumcised, lie slain by the sword.
Jon 2:2 And he said, I cried out to Jehovah from my distress. And He answered me. Out of the belly of Sheol I cried for help, and You heard my voice.
according to Ecc 9:5, there is NOTHING going on in Sheol. But in Isa. 14:9-10 and Eze 32:21 and Jon 2:2, it looks like there's some action going on.
if anyone can give me an explanation or lead me to any of Ray's teaching that touch these verses.
Thanks
Mando
--- End quote ---
- The first problem is that the Church has gotten far too comfortable with teaching Bible Contradictions. They won't openly admit that it contradicts, but their doctrines prove that they believe that it does.
- The verses from Ezekiel and Isaiah are prophecies. They are visions, they are figurative, not literal events. The entire Book of Revelations is a prophecy from a vision. The Church has no concept of figurative speech; they need to go back to Grade School. ???
- The verse in Jonah is from when Jonah was in the belly of the giant fish. Unless all wicked people will live eternally in the belly of a super-gigantic fish :o, then this has nothing to do with Sheol/Hell... literally...
Hope that helps, friend.
- Daywalker. 8)
--- End quote ---
I agree Daywalker!!
The first installment of the lake of fire series is such a refresher on the figures of speech.
One of the reasons the KJV translation is so popular, its so beautifully written.
Antaiwan
daywalker:
--- Quote from: Akira329 on April 23, 2009, 06:16:43 PM ---I agree Daywalker!!
The first installment of the lake of fire series is such a refresher on the figures of speech.
One of the reasons the KJV translation is so popular, its so beautifully written.
Antaiwan
--- End quote ---
Tis true! It is a beautiful, poetic translation. It's just unfortunate that there are a few verses that have been so badly translated, that the beauty of God's Word is smothered. One great example is in:
Psalms 139:7-8:
Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. [King James]
But in all fairness, if the English word "hell' carried the same meaning now, as it did 300 years ago, [to conceal, a covering] then it would remain it's prophetic beauty...
Here's a better translation that restores it:
Whither could I go from Your spirit, And whither could I run away from Your presence? If I should climb to the heavens, You are there, And should I make my berth in the unseen, behold, You are there." [Concordant]
Simply put, no matter where you go, no matter what happens, GOD IS RIGHT THERE WITH YOU. God is Everywhere! ;D
...and that, my friends, is BEAUTIFUL
- Daywalker. 8)
Akira329:
--- Quote from: daywalker on April 24, 2009, 11:30:10 AM ---
--- Quote from: Akira329 on April 23, 2009, 06:16:43 PM ---I agree Daywalker!!
The first installment of the lake of fire series is such a refresher on the figures of speech.
One of the reasons the KJV translation is so popular, its so beautifully written.
Antaiwan
--- End quote ---
Tis true! It is a beautiful, poetic translation. It's just unfortunate that there are a few verses that have been so badly translated, that the beauty of God's Word is smothered. One great example is in:
Psalms 139:7-8:
Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. [King James]
But in all fairness, if the English word "hell' carried the same meaning now, as it did 300 years ago, [to conceal, a covering] then it would remain it's prophetic beauty...
Here's a better translation that restores it:
Whither could I go from Your spirit, And whither could I run away from Your presence? If I should climb to the heavens, You are there, And should I make my berth in the unseen, behold, You are there." [Concordant]
Simply put, no matter where you go, no matter what happens, GOD IS RIGHT THERE WITH YOU. God is Everywhere! ;D
...and that, my friends, is BEAUTIFUL
- Daywalker. 8)
--- End quote ---
Wonderful example!!!
Antaiwan
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