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Author Topic: Ecc 9:5 vs-  (Read 5884 times)

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daywalker

  • Guest
Re: Ecc 9:5 vs-
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2009, 08:27:42 PM »

Now, I could be thinking about this wrong. Since, the body is in the grave and the spirit goes back to God. The spirit would be in safe keeping with God till he ressurect us from the dead. I do not see why the spirit could not be sleeping just because God has taken it back. After, all he will be giving all the ones life that have died when he returns. This is the rest for the saints from trials and tribulations and labours. It is rest to the generation while god continues to deal with the other generations. It also, takes away from some of the wicked in each generation. Doesn't God quicken our sprit to life. We really do need scriptures. With out a ressurection our believe is in vain.

I will try and find some scriptures, but in the mean time maye others can find those for us.

In His Love,
Marlene

        Marlene,
            I think this too, when you're dead the whole person is dead, sleeping, so why would not the all, include the spirit that has returned to God!?
            Are the rest of you agreeing, or is Marlene's and my thinking off base?  Input please.
            luv,meee


Hey Marlene and Meee,

The "spirit" that God gives to all of us, is not another "person" inside of us. It's the "breath" that God gives to us, which enables us to be "alive":

Gen 2:7 And forming is Yahweh Elohim the human of soil from the ground, and He is blowing into his nostrils the breath of the living, and becoming is the human a living soul.


God is Spirit. He is the Spirit that gives us all life. He is the Spirit that takes away life also. Nowhere in the Scriptures does it say that our "spirit" sleeps. It says that humans/animals all sleep in the dust. But the "spirit"--the breath which gives us life--returns to God, who is Spirit, and is life...


The Scriptures say the dead are asleep:

Deuteronomy 31:16: And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

II Samuel 7:12: And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

I Kings 1:21: Otherwise it shall come to pass, when my lord the king shall sleep with his fathers, that I and my son Solomon shall be counted offenders.

I Kings 11:43: And Solomon slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David his father: and Rehoboam his son reigned in his stead.

Job 7:21: And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away my iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.

Notice: We "sleep in the dust". For "dust we are, and to dust we return"--Gen 3:19 ... Nothing about our "spirits" sleeping somewhere separate from us...

Job 14:11-13: As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drift up: So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!

Psalm 13:3: Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;

II Peter 3:3-4: Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

I Corinthians 15:51-52: Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

I Thessalonians 4:13-15: But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.



Hope that helps clear the air,

- Daywalker.  8)
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meee

  • Guest
Re: Ecc 9:5 vs-
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2009, 08:57:10 PM »

Now, I could be thinking about this wrong. Since, the body is in the grave and the spirit goes back to God. The spirit would be in safe keeping with God till he ressurect us from the dead. I do not see why the spirit could not be sleeping just because God has taken it back. After, all he will be giving all the ones life that have died when he returns. This is the rest for the saints from trials and tribulations and labours. It is rest to the generation while god continues to deal with the other generations. It also, takes away from some of the wicked in each generation. Doesn't God quicken our sprit to life. We really do need scriptures. With out a ressurection our believe is in vain.

I will try and find some scriptures, but in the mean time maye others can find those for us.

In His Love,
Marlene

        Marlene,
            I think this too, when you're dead the whole person is dead, sleeping, so why would not the all, include the spirit that has returned to God!?
            Are the rest of you agreeing, or is Marlene's and my thinking off base?  Input please.
            luv,meee


Hey Marlene and Meee,

The "spirit" that God gives to all of us, is not another "person" inside of us. It's the "breath" that God gives to us, which enables us to be "alive":

Gen 2:7 And forming is Yahweh Elohim the human of soil from the ground, and He is blowing into his nostrils the breath of the living, and becoming is the human a living soul.


God is Spirit. He is the Spirit that gives us all life. He is the Spirit that takes away life also. Nowhere in the Scriptures does it say that our "spirit" sleeps. It says that humans/animals all sleep in the dust. But the "spirit"--the breath which gives us life--returns to God, who is Spirit, and is life...


The Scriptures say the dead are asleep:

Deuteronomy 31:16: And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

II Samuel 7:12: And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

I Kings 1:21: Otherwise it shall come to pass, when my lord the king shall sleep with his fathers, that I and my son Solomon shall be counted offenders.

I Kings 11:43: And Solomon slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David his father: and Rehoboam his son reigned in his stead.

Job 7:21: And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away my iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.

Notice: We "sleep in the dust". For "dust we are, and to dust we return"--Gen 3:19 ... Nothing about our "spirits" sleeping somewhere separate from us...

Job 14:11-13: As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drift up: So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!

Psalm 13:3: Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;

II Peter 3:3-4: Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

I Corinthians 15:51-52: Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

I Thessalonians 4:13-15: But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.



Hope that helps clear the air,

- Daywalker.  8)
      Hey Daywalker,
            Yea, I understood about the breath of life God gives us and that it returns to God when we die.
            Sooooo, what are we then, we die, the entire person is dead, and without the breath of life we have no spirit, except the initial down payment of holy Spirit [ before we die } when we repent and return to God? I don't know how to say what I'm asking, are you understanding my question?
            No, I know it isn't a separate person inside of us, but when the spirit returns to God, what does the person that is dead consist of. Is it that we are either a living soul or  dead soul and that's it?
            I want to get this right, so more help please.
            Much thanks, meee
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Marlene

  • Guest
Re: Ecc 9:5 vs-
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2009, 09:09:38 PM »

Daywalker, I know he gives us breath and he breaths this in us and we become alivie. When, my father was dying they asked us not to talk about his illness cause the brain could still hear it till he actually die. I know, our spirit goes back to him. I know he will resssurect. I did not think I had a literal body inside me. Without, that breath I am dead.

I sat there and watched my Fathers breathing go so low you could barely tell when he had stopped except we knew he had died. God was so gracious to us.
I have no doubt in my mind we are dead. But the breath is in his care till he blows it back into us.

But, I know the Spirit of God is working in me now. Never thought I had another person in me. Sounds more like what Babylon might think.

In His Love,
Marlene
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aqrinc

  • Guest
Re: Ecc 9:5 vs-
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2009, 09:26:32 PM »


What do The Scriptures Say:

Ecc 9:5-6 (ASV)
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6  As well their love, as their hatred and their envy, is perished long ago; neither have they any more a portion for ever in anything that is done under the sun.


Ecc 9: 5-6 (GW)
5  The living know that they will die, but the dead don't know anything. There is no more reward for the dead when the memory of them has faded.
6  Their love, their hate, and their passions have already vanished. They will never again take part in anything that happens under the sun.

Psa 6:5 (ASV)
For in death there is no remembrance of thee: In Sheol who shall give thee thanks?

Psa 6:5 (CLV)
For in death there is no remembrance of You; In the unseen, who shall acclaim You?

Ecc 9:10  (ASV)
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in Sheol, whither thou goest.

george. :)

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meee

  • Guest
Re: Ecc 9:5 vs-
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2009, 09:38:17 PM »


What do The Scriptures Say:

Ecc 9:5-6 (ASV)
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6  As well their love, as their hatred and their envy, is perished long ago; neither have they any more a portion for ever in anything that is done under the sun.


Ecc 9: 5-6 (GW)
5  The living know that they will die, but the dead don't know anything. There is no more reward for the dead when the memory of them has faded.
6  Their love, their hate, and their passions have already vanished. They will never again take part in anything that happens under the sun.

Psa 6:5 (ASV)
For in death there is no remembrance of thee: In Sheol who shall give thee thanks?

Psa 6:5 (CLV)
For in death there is no remembrance of You; In the unseen, who shall acclaim You?

Ecc 9:10  (ASV)
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in Sheol, whither thou goest.

george. :)


       Yes George I understand and do believe this.
        I was asking what the body consist of?        Is it that we are either a living soul or  dead soul and that's it?
        I have so much unlearning to take place, and that is exactly my problem now. There are teachings about what a person is, like body,soul,spirit. That's ok, thanks for the help, if it something I need to understand in due time I will, so thanks for trying to help me anyway. :)         I'm unable to make my question understandable  :-[   :(
       hugs,meee
       
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cherokee

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Re: Ecc 9:5 vs-
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2009, 10:39:27 PM »

Meee,

Here is a link to a email(s) with comments that may help you understand better.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,240.0.html

Suzie
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aqrinc

  • Guest
Re: Ecc 9:5 vs-
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2009, 11:37:35 PM »


Hi meee,

Sorry about the confusion with your questions. Here is a link you may have read some of; it should keep you busy for a day or two:

Nothing is left that we can call our own, see below.

Ecc 9:10  (ASV)
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in Sheol, whither thou goest.

More of Rays Teaching.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7500.0.html

There are many subjects here that partly address your questions, after a study you will have those and many other questions answered.

george.  :)

« Last Edit: April 27, 2009, 11:40:19 PM by aqr »
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EKnight

  • Guest
Re: Ecc 9:5 vs-
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2009, 11:53:38 PM »

Mee,

Maybe this will help?


You have to get out of out if your head the idea that the spirit soul and body are "separate entities" as if they could function independently of each other.  Remember my TV analogy of six years ago?  The console is the body, the picture is the soul, and the electricity is the spirit. Yes, they are "entities," if you will that have distinct names, and functions, but none of them produces anything independent of each other. Smash the console and you have not soul (picture). Pull the plug and you have not soul (picture).
Likewise remove the spirit, and the body dies. Remove the spirit and the soul disappears. Smash the body and the soul disappears. The soul IS THE SENTIENT man. The emotional, thinking, conscious man. This consciousness is called "soul."  It is not a thing that can literally travel or go somewhere independent of the body and brain. That is why it is said in the Greek Scriptures that at death the soul goes to hades. Hades means the unseen, the imperceptible, unconsciousness.
It takes spirit from God in a body to give it life, which life is then called "a LIVING SOUL."
It takes a little meditation to understand these concepts.

God be with you
Ray
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meee

  • Guest
Re: Ecc 9:5 vs-
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2009, 10:21:40 AM »

  Good morning Cherokee, Suzy, Eileen and George,
           Thanks so much for your input and I will study these out and pray.
            I know our body is the temple for the Spirit and understand the breath of life and being dead means not knowing,being aware of anything, sound asleep, as it were. I know God makes people living souls as well as animals are living souls and also that we are either living souls or dead souls.
           Thanks again for the links and for the TV thing from Ray, it's going to become clear soon.
              hugs,meee
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daywalker

  • Guest
Re: Ecc 9:5 vs-
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2009, 02:36:47 PM »

Daywalker, I know he gives us breath and he breaths this in us and we become alivie. When, my father was dying they asked us not to talk about his illness cause the brain could still hear it till he actually die. I know, our spirit goes back to him. I know he will resssurect. I did not think I had a literal body inside me. Without, that breath I am dead.

I sat there and watched my Fathers breathing go so low you could barely tell when he had stopped except we knew he had died. God was so gracious to us.
I have no doubt in my mind we are dead. But the breath is in his care till he blows it back into us.

But, I know the Spirit of God is working in me now. Never thought I had another person in me. Sounds more like what Babylon might think.

In His Love,
Marlene


Meee: Is it that we are either a living soul or  dead soul and that's it?

We are called living souls [Gen 2:7], and souls die [Ezek 18:4,20], so that seems to be a fair conclusion.

To be Scripturally "specific", God calls us dust: "For dust you are" [Gen 3:19], and hence this is where we return when we pass.



Marlene,

The reason I mentioned that our spirits are not persons [though I was convinced that you didn't believe that...] was because of the debating of 'do our spirits sleep?'. But since the 'spirit' represents our 'breath--life", and is not a 'person', it doesn't sleep. Sleep represents Death, but Spirit is Life.

I'm so sorry to hear about your Father. I know what it's like to watch someone die. I watched my Nana die a few years ago; she got breast cancer, and it was too late to do anything. I visited her in the Nursing Home, and like you said, her breathing was so low I thought she was dead. Plus, her whole body was stiff cause all the drugs they put in her. Then later that same day, my Mom went to visit her, and she actually was dead. She yelled for the nurse, and at first they said that she was only sleeping, but Mom made them check her pulse, and she was dead. I remember being so angry at them, because this was not how she wanted to die!  >:(


But anyways, fun talking with ya,

- Daywalker.  8)
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meee

  • Guest
Re: Ecc 9:5 vs-
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2009, 08:13:45 PM »

 Daywalker,
        Thanks for your reply.
         
hugs,meee
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Marlene

  • Guest
Re: Ecc 9:5 vs-
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2009, 09:19:44 PM »

I understand Daywalker no problem about it. I know, its the Spirit that gives us life. Without, it we have nothing. Yes, I know we are nothing but dust. That , should humble us to see how much God loves us.

Yes, death can be a hard thing for sure to handle. Sorry, to hear about your Nana. It just gives so much more hope then Babylon. We never have to worry about our love ones that don't believe or are not converted. God, loves them all! I think we are really blessed to know the truths God has showed Ray. Although, we miss our loved ones and friends when they pass. We have the peace of knowing all will be ok. Thanks.

In His Love,
Marlene
« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 12:14:18 AM by Marlene »
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daywalker

  • Guest
Re: Ecc 9:5 vs-
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2009, 03:27:27 PM »

I understand Daywalker no problem about it. I know, its the Spirit that gives us life. Without, it we have nothing. Yes, I know we are nothing but dust. That , should humble us to see how much God loves us.

Yes, death can be a hard thing for sure to handle. Sorry, to hear about your Nana. It just gives so much more hope then Babylon. We never have to worry about our love ones that don't believe or are not converted. God, loves them all! I think we are really blessed to know the truths God has showed Ray. Although, we miss our loved ones and friends when they pass. We have the peace of knowing all will be ok. Thanks.

In His Love,
Marlene

AMEN!  ;D
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charrie

  • Guest
Re: Ecc 9:5 vs-
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2009, 02:22:46 AM »

Amen indeed!!

Well, have I just re-learned a great deal from this post.  First, here is what is taught in christendom:

we are spirits, we have a soul, and we dwell or live in this body..AGAIN with the three in one thing..

I walked around so long thinking I was a spirit with a soul living in this body.  I would mediate on repeating "I am a spirit, I am a spirit" :o :o ::)  BUT now I understand, I understand the breath of life is a spirit and when we die that breath of life goes back to its source, Yahweh.  Whow!!  thank you all for being who you are, I appreciate it.  What they teach in christendome!!!!

Charrie :-*
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