> General Discussions
there is one that accuseth you, even Moses
Lightseeker:
Daniel
I really don't like posts this long. It's just too much for me. I have a tendency to skip through long ones, and I know I'm missing stuff doing that....but here goes.
--- Quote ---Lightseeker writes
The law is the ministry of condemnation and death physically/body
Daniel writes,
Heres where we differ a bit, I don't see it having anything to do with the physical body, but I don't argue that IT does not die, who would? You know anyone who has not? Not me. :lol:
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Not personally, but what about Melchisedec (Heb. 7:3,8 ), Enoch, Elijah and the apostle John (the wandering Jew. John 21:23)
--- Quote ---Yet there is "this body OF SIN" that is destroyed WHILE we live "in it" that sin hath no more dominion over one. That "henceforth" we should not serve it. Sins power is by the law and WILL have dominion (power) over one while HE LIVES (in the flesh after a spiritual truth). For IF you live AFTER the flesh you WILL DIE but IF you mortify the deeds of the body you will LIVE. Its kiling the body while in it, death to it, yet we can still live theough this procedure :lol: The law of sin and death are only in motion WHILE IN THE FLESH. Yet it is true to the same that we are NOT IN THE FLESH but IN THE SPIRIT while paradoxically still literally and physically "in the flesh". Make any sense?
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I personally believe that if we truly destroyed the body of sin in us totally we would not die physically....that's the definiton of immortality. Immortality is different than eternal life.
ROM 2:7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;
This verse isn't speaking of life in the hereafter if we die. It speaks of immortality here and now, I believe. Jesus spoke of the same thing when talking to Martha about Lazarus.
JOH 11:25,26 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, 26 and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die.
The whole discussion of Jesus here, with Martha, is talking about physical death of her brother and Jesus contrasts it with immortality. I just don't think we, like Martha, really even believe that it's possible, let alone walk in that belief of overcoming physical death. Partly because we've never been taught it. Part of not being taught is because it's time was not yet come. This truth is for that last generation I think. I'm reading more about it in Christian authors. I was taught it 30 years ago and am just now seeing others beginning to speak of these things.
--- Quote ---Lightseeker writes,
1CO 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. This verse speaks of the physical death and grave.
Daniel writes,
You get "that" from "this verse"? Howso curious? Has the natural death of our physical bodies have anything to do with this verse? (no doubt they do die) but how do you find a dead physical body relating to the "sting of death" being sin and the law and the victory that follows which is the very "opposite" of the law, but is of "faith".
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I don't get it from that verse but from the verse preceding which puts verse 56 in context I think.
1CO 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
How can we cheat physical death and the grave? Only by overcoming. It's obviously not by being resurrected from the grave...or by being clothed with glorified bodies because 'time ran out' and Jesus returned.
--- Quote ---Would not death which is the "last enemy" be equal to our carnality in the sense that our "carnal mind IS DEATH" and WE were enemies IN OUR MIND. Would it not rather be The MIND OF CHRIST which IS LIFE and PEACE "swallowing up" the CARNAL MIND (which IS DEATH) after a spiritual truth? Afterall MORTAL "puts ON" Immortality which is "deathlessness" in the sense of passing over here and now as John speaks of... "We have passed from DEATH unto LIFE because we love the brethren. The carnal mind is "great hatred", would make sense of "deathlessness" being related after spiritual fruits even fruits of death or life in the comparison of corruptible and incurruption as is the "hidden man" of the heart.
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While I agree that carnality is DEATH...it is partly so because it assigns a death sentence unto our physical bodies. James says 'sin when it becomes mature causes death'. The death of what? I believe it is the death of our soul and body (bear with me in my triune ignorance :wink: ). Science has never been able to really figure out why we die. I think they're missing the God factor that we no longer have access to the tree of life in our life unless, as you said, we pass from DEATH unto LIFE by walking in love. Do you/I do that perfectly? I don't. And when we aren't, then I believe we are dying/aging. There is a relatively new branch of healing called psychoneuroimmunology, which understands that our psychology affects our biology. We actually program death into our bodies by harboring the deadly emotions that scripture says "don't have". Emotions such as fear, anxiety, bitterness, unforgiveness, depression, resentment, anger ect.
--- Quote ---Could death in scripture indicate something other (but not to the exclusion of the obvious) of our literal physical carcus? If His words are Spirit and the Spirit is truth (as they are) we are to compare spiritual with spiritual right? How does our bodies fit into that equation especcially considering what is dead can keep walking here? :lol: (after the flesh and die or after the Spirit and live)
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2CO 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. How is His life manifest in our mortal flesh? I think it is with immortality.
2TI 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life AND immortality to light through the gospel: It is through the 'gospel of the kingdom' (how to walk here and now) that we will overcome or abolish death. Are we walking in the gospel totally? I wish I were. If not then we will die eventually.
--- Quote ---Keeping in Mind death can work to MANIFEST the "Life of Jesus Christ" in our MORTAL bodies. That we reign "in Life" by ONE (Him).
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I agree and I think that's what I'm saying above.
--- Quote ---Speaking elsewhere concerning our desire while "still in THIS tabernacle (the one we have now) is NOT that we would be UNCLOTHED but CLOTHED UPON with our house FROM heaven. That which is CORRUPT is our OLD MAN we PUT OFF NOW and the NEW MAN we put ON while we live. These being connected to the incorrptible nature of Him we are being made partakers of. See what I ask?
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I do see 'what you're asking', and what you're saying is right on track. But I also think this is again talking about 'here and now' goal of Paul. Paul was striving for the resurrection here and now in Philipians 3:10-12. In those verses he speaks (in the Gr.) of two different resurrections (Anastasis, Exanastasis) and two deaths (Thantos, Nekros). He said the only way to 'know the power of His resurrection' here and now was by becoming perfect...which Paul wasn't and didn't do. Not a putdown...just not his calling IMO. These Philip. verses aren't talking about the 'accept Jesus and be perfect at the 'assured' 'resurrection of the dead' type resurrection.
1PE 4:1,2 Since therefore Christ suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves with the same thought, for whoever has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, 2 so as to live for the rest of __ time in the flesh no longer by human passions but by the will of God.
Most translations add the/his before the word time in the verse above. But it's not in the Greek.
Whew I'm done. :-k
Daniel:
Lightseeker writes,
--- Quote --- I really don't like posts this long. It's just too much for me. I have a tendency to skip through long ones, and I know I'm missing stuff doing that....but here goes.
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Don't worry I'm not crazy over wresting over every thing :lol: I was curious. I was asking "in general". Trying to show "one thought" by using various places I found the same thing explained differently throughout. Actually we appear to be very close Lightseeker.
Lightseeker writes (concerning those who appeared to have never physically died)
--- Quote ---Not personally, but what about Melchisedec (Heb. 7:3,8 ), Enoch, Elijah and the apostle John (the wandering Jew. John 21:23)
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That indeed is written, I've heard various things on everyside. Why then not the same standard applied to "physical death" here as applied to Adam. (if it means that at all) Unless its showing us something else altogether. The same words Enoch did not see death is spoken of by Jesus Christ to others.
Luke 2:26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, "before" he had seen the Lord's Christ.[/u]
Psalm 89:49 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave?[/u] Selah.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found[/u], "because" God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.[/u]
I think the word "never" is being disputed? I don't know, perhaps its the word "not" instead? Psalm 89:49 speaks of a question concerning "who will not see death"? is Jesus answering that question?
John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.[/u]
Yet since (as far as I can see, because I have the "evil KJV :lol: ) the word "death" mean the same as below, even the "passed over" related to the same word "translated" being removed from one place to the next as Enoch (after a spiritual place)
1John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.[/u]
When I type in "Translated" in the scriptures it takes me directly to Enoch and being "translated" from "the power" of darkness (defined as hated, perhaps carnality?) into Light.
Power of an "indestructable life" in that regard?
Lightseeker writes,
--- Quote ---I personally believe that if we truly destroyed the body of sin in us totally we would not die physically....that's the definiton of immortality. Immortality is different than eternal life.
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I was thinking the same thing too. I wonder if immortality is as the "incorruptable nature" or "death-less-ness" (as even Ray puts it). Why count the flesh as "something" when it counts for nothing in the equation, is what I'm thinking. Thats where I was going mostly in the thread. Living AFTER "the Flesh" would be living after its lusts (which are unseen by nature) Yet though we live in the flesh we walk not after it. Elsewhere it says we are NOT in the flesh. Theres an inner translating here. By the law (which is good) is wherby the "motions of sins" are WHILE YET "In the flesh". No doubt the outward man perishes, or this physical body dies in its time (I'm not even interested in keeping it really lol). But it does say that MORTAL "Puts ON" immortality. I agree with you in this Lightseeker, I see it here and now as well. I began to ask, "what would that "look like"? You can almost see Jesus asking, "what do you expect to see"?
Here is what I was thinking, if eternal life is to "know God" (even in this) they do not abide "in death" anymore. It was a "state" even of carnality (the unseen nature of a corruptible man). So likewise would not "immortality" be a state of "deathlessness" of a different kind (not of carnal but spiritual hid within this body). His life swallowing up ours. In otherwords, we are not found as Enoch was not found, because we are "found in Him" given a new name. Thats how I am seeing it by way of comparison.
Lightseeker writes
--- Quote ---ROM 2:7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;
This verse isn't speaking of life in the hereafter if we die. It speaks of immortality here and now, I believe. Jesus spoke of the same thing when talking to Martha about Lazarus.
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I'm with you bro :D
This is interesting as it too can relate to what Enochs name "means" which is "dedicated". The words, " not see death" is alongside of Him who was dedicated to God. Or perhaps even as Jesus spoke in relationship to "keeping his saying". Enoch not being found for God took Him can also be as being translated "into Him" (The light) in whom there is no darkness. Being found in Him. It says of Enoch that he had the testimony that he "pleased God" even "before" his translation. The passing (in John) from death unto life seems to agree (spiritually speaking). Seeking "deathlessness" perhaps seeking to walk in Christ and put on those things which are attributes of Him. For "In seeking" as the picture shows Enoch (who was dedicated) who walked with God (who teaches) and God fulfilled his word.
I see that HIM we are seeking (glory, honor and immortality) and HIM that is given (eternal life). In other words…. When we seek HIM, (we find Him) and we receive HIM. Glory and honor and immorality belong TO HIM and He IS “the (eternal) LIFE� that we receive.
I think we are on the same page not sure but sounds it perhaps a few tweeks of difference, but who cares right? :lol:
Lightseeker writes
--- Quote ---While I agree that carnality is DEATH...it is partly so because it assigns a death sentence unto our physical bodies. James says 'sin when it becomes mature causes death'. The death of what? I believe it is the death of our soul and body (bear with me in my triune ignorance ).
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You were going good bro :lol: :wink: Were talking FRUIT unto death and abiding in carnality we are called to come out of that. When Paul said he was alive apart from the law and sin revived and he died. What died in Paul? Can a man live being killed by the commandment? Ofcourse, this is where I see dying not being in anyway shape or form spiritually speaking of the body. Twicedead while living is even spoken of in scripture. I see it as continuing to walk after the flesh.
Lightseeker writes
--- Quote ---Science has never been able to really figure out why we die. I think they're missing the God factor that we no longer have access to the tree of life in our life unless
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Thats like saying we have no access to Jesus Christ, not through the law or after the flesh to him who "overcomes" he gives and in John they had overcome. Being caught up to paradise never needed the physical death of the body to do it, Paul shows this knowing one who had been caught up to paradise where the tree of life is.
Then again we run into a problem, if the body without the spirit is dead (or soul) Paul should have known it was and not even to guess that it was "out of the body" (at all) but "in the body" :lol: But he did not "know" or "cannot tell"? :lol: :wink:
Lightseeker writes,
--- Quote ---as you said, we pass from DEATH unto LIFE by walking in love. Do you/I do that perfectly? I don't.
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Don't mean what is untrue of us now will not be. But we are to be "perfected in His love" scripture speaks of this. Just anyone of us are not there yet doesn't make His power "to become" and be "made perfect" in it void. Waiting for what we do not see it yet but it will come. As we have believed here you know? :lol: We wouldn't want to decide this is untrue simply because it was not "ours" yet. We would hope toward that and believe for Him because we know He does not lie. Convinced being without uncertainty concerning Him.
Lightseeker writes
--- Quote ---We actually program death into our bodies by harboring the deadly emotions that scripture says "don't have". Emotions such as fear, anxiety, bitterness, unforgiveness, depression, resentment, anger ect.
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Thats what perfect love casts out, he that fears is simply not made perfect in love. But Him being the Author and finisher of our faith (which works by love) will accomplish even this in us. In fact we are taught by God to love one another as all things are made beautiful in His time. His timing is perfect. :D
You wrote more I too agree with the points you raised in those (I think, as you would say) No need to answer back if you don't feel like it (laughing) because I know that must have been more then you desired to write huh? :lol:
You wrote
--- Quote --- Whew I'm done.
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Whew me too :lol: Thanks for taking your time to answering concerning my curiosity on these things. I always like to know where one might be coming from on something. You enlightened me on that, thanks :wink:
And you thought yours was long :lol: :oops:
Peace
Daniel
Lightseeker:
Daniel,
OK bro here I go again but at least it's a little shorter. :D
--- Quote ---I was thinking the same thing too. I wonder if immortality is as the "incorruptable nature" or "death-less-ness" (as even Ray puts it). Why count the flesh as "something" when it counts for nothing in the equation, is what I'm thinking. Thats where I was going mostly in the thread. Living AFTER "the Flesh" would be living after its lusts (which are unseen by nature) Yet though we live in the flesh we walk not after it.
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I think the incorruptable nature comes from our born again spirit. And I don't think a spirit is ever mortal and therefore immortality doesn't apply to the spirit, in my way of thinking. And living after the flesh is committing deeds which I think are seen by nature (not sure what you meant by "unseen by nature" here)
ROM 8:12,13 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
If this verse meant 'doing deeds' gets you into life in the hereafter, then that would negate "salvation by grace/faith". So the "life" in this verse, I think, is talking about the physical life of here and now. It's not talking about deeds that you do..do, it's talking about deeds that you DON'T do...to live. Deeds that we are supposed to do, end up in rewards in the hereafter.
--- Quote ---This is interesting as it too can relate to what Enochs name "means" which is "dedicated". The words, " not see death" is alongside of Him who was dedicated to God. Or perhaps even as Jesus spoke in relationship to "keeping his saying".
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Good imput. I like what you've found here.
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I think we are on the same page not sure but sounds it perhaps a few tweeks of difference, but who cares right?
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Daniel I like your spirit here, it speaks well for you. When you're on the edge of thinking about things, it's always good to have someone else close enough to stick a hand out and help...not push.
The smartest theologian has never plumbed God's depths and yet He is still shallow enough for a 5 year old to come to saving revelation. God is so COOL.
--- Quote ---Then again we run into a problem, if the body without the spirit is dead (or soul) Paul should have known it was and not even to guess that it was "out of the body" (at all) but "in the body" But he did not "know" or "cannot tell"?
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In that verse the word "soma" was used for body. It is defined as "the whole" whereas "sarx" would have been the word if Paul meant his flesh went with him. So I'm wondering, if Paul wondered, if he was only there 'in his spirit'. Don't know.
--- Quote ---Don't mean what is untrue of us now will not be. But we are to be "perfected in His love" scripture speaks of this. Just anyone of us are not there yet doesn't make His power "to become" and be "made perfect" in it void.
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Totally agree. But don't you believe that we all will have different 'stations' or 'rewards' based upon how much we 'walked in love' (or how many of our 'deeds' were truly 'of Him' and not just dead religious works?).
Daniel:
Lightseeker writes,
Hey bro, thanks so much, I hope your breakfast went well the other day :wink: :lol:
--- Quote ---living after the flesh is committing deeds which I think are seen by nature (not sure what you meant by "unseen by nature" here)
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What I meant, is that though we living visibly in the flesh, once the Spirit is shed abroad in our hearts, through whom we mortify the "deeds" of the flesh we walk no more after it, but in the Spirit. By unseen I mean you cant physically "see" hatred, except it visibly manifest as what we might see as murder (dead body, you know :wink: ). Yet hating ones brother is being a murderer and is not something seen with the eye, it's "hidden" but "felt" and perceived. You yourself would perceive anothers hatred for you without seen "the word" tatooed on ones forehead right? :lol: Thats what I mean by the corrupt carnal man and its fruits of death, its "way". Not looking at the visible flesh we all live in but the flesh (after the spiritual truth it represents concerning the corrrupt man of the heart). Hows that Light? Did I clarify that better? :lol:
Lightseeker writes,
--- Quote --- ROM 8:12,13 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
If this verse meant 'doing deeds' gets you into life in the hereafter, then that would negate "salvation by grace/faith". So the "life" in this verse, I think, is talking about the physical life of here and now. It's not talking about deeds that you do..do, it's talking about deeds that you DON'T do...to live. Deeds that we are supposed to do, end up in rewards in the hereafter.
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Not at all, I'm not even comparing this verse to the life to come but the life that "now is" in this life yet not of it (if I said that right :lol: ).
I see it as being now, living after the flesh you DIE to SEEING "the life" that NOW IS. But I also see that if by the Spirit we mortify the deeds of the flesh we would SEE "the life" that NOW IS. I see it as putting off the Old man and His practices (his deeds). Summed up in the same thought expressed elsewhere in scripture. Not at all speaking of "dying in the physical body" and "going to heaven". No that was not my line of thinking.
I was seing this in relation to these
Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
Ephes 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which "is corrupt" according to the "deceitful lusts"
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
I too agree with you Lightseeker concerning the doing of good
James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, "to him" it is sin.[/u] We are definately not to immitate what is evil, I think you'd agree with that.
I can see we are recompensed "here" somewhat
Romans 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Prov 11:31 Behold, "the righteous" shall be recompensed in the earth: much more the wicked and the sinner.[/u] :shock:
Prov 11:17 The "merciful man" doeth good to his own soul: but he that is cruel troubleth his own flesh.[/u] (our own way returned upon us)
2Thes 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;[/u]
And yet recieving "in ourselves" by being filled with HIM who is our great reward.
1Titus 5:25 Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are "otherwise" cannot be hid.[/u]
Those that be "otherwise" are filled to the contrary
Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, etc.
The former are filled
Phill 1:11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.
Howso?
Prov 18:20 A man's belly shall be satisfied with the fruit of his mouth; and with the increase of his lips shall he be filled.[/u] :shock:
Just as Jesus said of our words it sounds like don't it?
Prov 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.[/u]
Prov 12:28 In the way of righteousness is life; and in the pathway thereof there is no death.[/u]
Lightseeker writes
--- Quote ---God is so COOL.
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I completely agree with you bro :wink: :D
I wrote
--- Quote ---Then again we run into a problem, if the body without the spirit is dead (or soul) Paul should have known it was and not even to guess that it was "out of the body" (at all) but "in the body" But he did not "know" or "cannot tell"?
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Lightseeker reponds
--- Quote ---In that verse the word "soma" was used for body. It is defined as "the whole" whereas "sarx" would have been the word if Paul meant his flesh went with him. So I'm wondering, if Paul wondered, if he was only there 'in his spirit'. Don't know.
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Wow, didn't know that, thanks for telling me, I still don't know either don't feel bad :lol:
I wrote concerning "being perfected"
--- Quote ---Don't mean what is untrue of us now will not be. But we are to be "perfected in His love" scripture speaks of this. Just anyone of us are not there yet doesn't make His power "to become" and be "made perfect" in it void.
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Lightseeker writes
--- Quote ---Totally agree. But don't you believe that we all will have different 'stations' or 'rewards' based upon how much we 'walked in love' (or how many of our 'deeds' were truly 'of Him' and not just dead religious works?).
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Never thought of that this way Lightseeker. I always saw the Lord Himself and His life manifesting in me (if that would so be) as my highest reward. I truly believed HE IS and as He said to Abraham, "I am thy sheild and exceedingly great reward". As Jesus says, "My reward is WITH ME" He is with the Father in these types as To those who overcome by being obedient unto Him he says, "I will give the Morning star" well we know He said, "I AM the Morning Star". So I see what we are seeking IS HIM and eternal life which is to KNOW HIM and Him manifesting Himself to me is all the reward I truly desire, I'm being honest. But If I got some "nifty stuff" up ahead of me I think I'll run past whatever "those things" might be :lol:
I see exactly what your saying, but I was more thinking of those things which cannot be hid here, the blessing of knowing Him and being filled as it speaks. The precious promises of being a partaker of His divine nature. But yeah Jesus said of those seeing the praise of men (as the dead don't praise HIM) they have their reward, their crown etc. To me it manifests here and now in walking with God. Its easy to believe in a God in the past, even moreso a God after your dead, its believing in the God who IS and is an ongoing rewarder of those who dilengently seek Him. He is true to this very thing.
I must say Lightseeker, it is so refreshing to talk to someone as cordial as yourself. Thats rare for me, especially in the humility you exhibit. I appreciate you bro, the same for you, your way speaks well of you. His blessings be yours.
Peace to you in Him :D
Daniel
Lightseeker:
Daniel,
You remembered my breakfast??? Cool! It went very well. Two of the guys came up after and said they hoped the pastor would let me finish what I had started. We were talking about the emotion Anger. I added all negative emotions into the equation and then taught about psychoneuroimmunology and how we need to tear down the strongholds of thinking which we've built up over years of GI...Garbage In, and start renewing our minds with GO...Garbage Out.
--- Quote --- What I meant, is that though we living visibly in the flesh, once the Spirit is shed abroad in our hearts, through whom we mortify the "deeds" of the flesh we walk no more after it, but in the Spirit. By unseen I mean you cant physically "see" hatred, except it visibly manifest as what we might see as murder (dead body, you know ). Yet hating ones brother is being a murderer and is not something seen with the eye, it's "hidden" but "felt" and perceived. You yourself would perceive anothers hatred for you without seen "the word" tatooed on ones forehead right? Thats what I mean by the corrupt carnal man and its fruits of death, its "way". Not looking at the visible flesh we all live in but the flesh (after the spiritual truth it represents concerning the corrrupt man of the heart). Hows that Light? Did I clarify that better?
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Gotcha!
2CO 5:6,7 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
What's at home in the body? I believe it is our spirit. And if we're led by the spirit then we aren't going to be led by our fleshly eye which is the window to the soul. We will still use physical eyesight to keep from falling over the log in the practical realm of earth though. It's sort of like being in the world but not of the world.
Love how you come up with so many scriptures supporting a POV. And quickly too. Are they all part of a study or are they all just in your head and you computer them to post?
--- Quote ---Never thought of that this way Lightseeker. I always saw the Lord Himself and His life manifesting in me (if that would so be) as my highest reward. I truly believed HE IS and as He said to Abraham, "I am thy sheild and exceedingly great reward". As Jesus says, "My reward is WITH ME" He is with the Father in these types as To those who overcome by being obedient unto Him he says, "I will give the Morning star" well we know He said, "I AM the Morning Star". So I see what we are seeking IS HIM and eternal life which is to KNOW HIM and Him manifesting Himself to me is all the reward I truly desire, I'm being honest. But If I got some "nifty stuff" up ahead of me I think I'll run past whatever "those things" might be
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Like you, I too see/believe there are temporal rewards, but I see hereafter rewards too. The judgment seat of Christ is one of our works...not for entering life in the hereafter but for ruling/reigning in the hereafter. There were two groups in Revelation. One group stands before the throne in robes of righteousness (Rev 7:14,15) and the other group sits on the throne with Christ (Rev 3:21). The coveted position is for 'those that overcome' and not just warm a pew. Who will we reign/rule over? How about those before the throne? How about those who were never called in this age? Just a thought.
--- Quote ---I must say Lightseeker, it is so refreshing to talk to someone as cordial as yourself. Thats rare for me, especially in the humility you exhibit. I appreciate you bro, the same for you, your way speaks well of you. His blessings be yours.
--- End quote ---
I'm even more humbled Daniel by your gracious comment. Thank you. I've learned a lot of things the hard way over many years. I used to cut people so low they could sit on a dollar bill and dangle their legs. I was very proud of myself...but God wasn't. I used my knowledge of scripture to hurt and not to heal. I don't care how stupid we think some of God's children are doctrinally...they are still His children. And God does chastize/scourge those of us who need it. Why does He scourge us? So we'll die sooner on our cross...just like Jesus did.
Quittin time. Hey they're gettin shorter...I like that. :wink:
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