> General Discussions
there is one that accuseth you, even Moses
Lightseeker:
Deedle,
--- Quote ---Is there a connection between "the devil" and the law?
--- End quote ---
Don't forget to add sin and body to that equation.
Devil,........law,.....................sin,....................body/possession
Satan,......commandments,..transgressions,.soul/obsession
Antichrist,.statutes,.............iniquities,...........spirit/oppresion
See if you see a correlation with the law being the power/authority of the devil...and breaking the law is sin which has it's consequences (death/disease/possession) in the body.
Whereas commandments are the power/authority of Satan and breaking them lead to transgressions which have their consequences (strongholds,mental illness/obsessions) in the soul (mind, will, emotions).
Lastly statutes are the power/authority of the Antichrist which result in iniquities that affect (quenching, breaking/oppresion) the spirit.
I'm not saying this is 'all figured out'. Statutes and commandments may even be crossed :?: I have done some digging along these lines and I believe that there is something there that's just shy of being revealed to me.
I once was blind but now I squint :?
You obviously like to dig into things and I admire that quality. Maybe this will get some juices flowing. I know part of the difficulty here for most will be the triune vs. biparte debate, but that's just how this works for me.
Daniel,
--- Quote ---Wrath, Moses, the law, unbelief, the devil, the accuser while in the flesh.
--- End quote ---
Exactly along the lines of what I'm seeing....I think. :P
--- Quote ---The law is The ministry of "condemnation" where there is no condemnation in Christ. Its your accuser not your justifier. The good conscience is related to the resurrection.
--- End quote ---
The law is the ministry of condemnation and death physically/body.
2CO 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones,
1CO 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.
This verse speaks of the physical death and grave.
--- Quote ---To me speaks consistantly concerning who we trust, whether "Moses" or "Jesus Christ" and that which is discerned between the two.
--- End quote ---
I agree and would add that if we are being 'inChristed' as Christ is formed in us then we are free and free indeed from the law and the death and wrath that come with it. But I don't think any of us would claim to be 100% 'inChristed'.
HEB 4:11 Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, that no one fall by the same sort of disobedience.
GAL 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
This verse is speaking to believers/Christians who haven't been totally 'inChristed'.
Deedle:
Thanks for the replies.
Joh 8:5 (CLV)
Now in the law, Moses directs us that such are to be stoned. You, then, what are you saying? 6 Now this they said to try Him, that they may have something to accuse Him of. Now Jesus, stooping down, wrote down something with a finger in the earth." 7 Now as they persisted asking Him, He unbends and said to them, "Let the sinless one of you first cast a stone at her." 8 And, again stooping down, He wrote in the earth."
Any thoughts on the writing with the finger in the earth?
Keep the juices flowing!
Deedle :D
Deedle:
Wow.
Luk 11:19
And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges. 20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
Luk 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Mat 23:2
Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. 4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
Daniel:
Daniel wrote
--- Quote ---Wrath, Moses, the law, unbelief, the devil, the accuser while in the flesh.
--- End quote ---
Lightseeker wrote
--- Quote ---Exactly along the lines of what I'm seeing....I think.
--- End quote ---
Daniel wrote
--- Quote ---The law is The ministry of "condemnation" where there is no condemnation in Christ. Its your accuser not your justifier. The good conscience is related to the resurrection.
--- End quote ---
Lightseeker writes
--- Quote ---The law is the ministry of condemnation and death physically/body.
--- End quote ---
Daniel writes,
Heres where we differ a bit, I don't see it having anything to do with the physical body, but I don't argue that IT does not die, who would? You know anyone who has not? Not me. :lol:
Yet there is "this body OF SIN" that is destroyed WHILE we live "in it" that sin hath no more dominion over one. That "henceforth" we should not serve it. Sins power is by the law and WILL have dominion (power) over one while HE LIVES (in the flesh after a spiritual truth). For IF you live AFTER the flesh you WILL DIE but IF you mortify the deeds of the body you will LIVE. Its kiling the body while in it, death to it, yet we can still live theough this procedure :lol: The law of sin and death are only in motion WHILE IN THE FLESH. Yet it is true to the same that we are NOT IN THE FLESH but IN THE SPIRIT while paradoxically still literally and physically "in the flesh". Make any sense?
Lightseeker writes
--- Quote ---2CO 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones,
--- End quote ---
Daniel writes,
agreed the Ministry of death was indeed
2Cr 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.[/u]
Death reigned over living people, I see it more as a reign spiritually speaking, the "carnal mind" IS death and it reigned as Adam and Moses are both mentioned in the reign, that of the "first man" of the earth ( is earthly ) and Moses ( the law ) while "in the flesh" the motions of sins were "thereby" as Paul speaks on.
Lightseeker writes,
--- Quote ---1CO 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. This verse speaks of the physical death and grave.
--- End quote ---
Daniel writes,
You get "that" from "this verse"? Howso curious? Has the natural death of our physical bodies have anything to do with this verse? (no doubt they do die) but how do you find a dead physical body relating to the "sting of death" being sin and the law and the victory that follows which is the very "opposite" of the law, but is of "faith".
Would not death which is the "last enemy" be equal to our carnality in the sense that our "carnal mind IS DEATH" and WE were enemies IN OUR MIND. Would it not rather be The MIND OF CHRIST which IS LIFE and PEACE "swallowing up" the CARNAL MIND (which IS DEATH) after a spiritual truth? Afterall MORTAL "puts ON" Immortality which is "deathlessness" in the sense of passing over here and now as John speaks of... "We have passed from DEATH unto LIFE because we love the brethren. The carnal mind is "great hatred", would make sense of "deathlessness" being related after spiritual fruits even fruits of death or life in the comparison of corruptible and incurruption as is the "hidden man" of the heart.
Could death in scripture indicate something other (but not to the exclusion of the obvious) of our literal physical carcus? If His words are Spirit and the Spirit is truth (as they are) we are to compare spiritual with spiritual right? How does our bodies fit into that equation especcially considering what is dead can keep walking here? :lol: (after the flesh and die or after the Spirit and live)
Keeping in Mind death can work to MANIFEST the "Life of Jesus Christ" in our MORTAL bodies. That we reign "in Life" by ONE (Him).
Speaking elsewhere concerning our desire while "still in THIS tabernacle (the one we have now) is NOT that we would be UNCLOTHED but CLOTHED UPON with our house FROM heaven. That which is CORRUPT is our OLD MAN we PUT OFF NOW and the NEW MAN we put ON while we live. These being connected to the incorrptible nature of Him we are being made partakers of. See what I ask?
If the STING of death is sin, its power is held solely by the law while in the flesh (living after it) and hath dominion, sting, and condemnation. But Christ LOOSED the "PAINS" of death and this is connected with this very thing. The importance of Him coming to us a "Second time" WITHOUT SIN is to release the STING or the HURT in connection to "This death" which is linked to the law which is NOT of the faith which hath the victory the overcomers have through faith.
If Mortal cannot put on immortality scriptures then become untrue and I make God a liar. But we Put on Christ, who alone hath immortality. Peter knew when to say He had to PUT OFF "this tabernacle". But when putting ON immortality it was on "that" which is mortal. Signifyng to me to be clothed with Christ. Those who have have crucified the flesh and its lusts. These would need to be true though they might not be true of anyone of us at one time and then very true of us at another time.
Daniel
chrissiela:
--- Quote from: Deedle ---Thanks for the replies.
Joh 8:5 (CLV)
Now in the law, Moses directs us that such are to be stoned. You, then, what are you saying? 6 Now this they said to try Him, that they may have something to accuse Him of. Now Jesus, stooping down, wrote down something with a finger in the earth." 7 Now as they persisted asking Him, He unbends and said to them, "Let the sinless one of you first cast a stone at her." 8 And, again stooping down, He wrote in the earth."
Any thoughts on the writing with the finger in the earth?
Keep the juices flowing!
Deedle :D
--- End quote ---
Deedle, He also WRITES His Laws on/in our Hearts (in the dust).
Tied to our 'conscience'
When he bent down and 'wrote in the earth" what happened?
Joh 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. :shock:
Joh 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Joh 8:8 And again :shock: he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
Joh 8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the ELDEST, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.[/list:u]
LOTS in there!!! :wink:
Chrissie
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