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Author Topic: Spirtual, physical, or both? Can it be both?  (Read 3695 times)

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nightmare sasuke

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Spirtual, physical, or both? Can it be both?
« on: March 19, 2006, 06:40:04 PM »

Act 9:9  And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

I’m pretty sure Paul was experiencing spiritual blindness; the absence of eating and drinking, was the absence of scriptural truth (what he once thought was truth, and the real truth).

Act 9:17  And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Act 9:18  And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
Act 9:19  And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.

The scales’ falling from his eyes was the “strong delusion? which keeps us from knowing the truth. This happened after he received the Holy Spirit. The “meat? he received, I think is the meat of the scriptures. However, the Greek word is better-translated nourishment:
τροφή
trophē
trof-ay'
From G5142; nourishment (literally or figuratively); by implication rations (wages): - food, meat.

Paul mentions in Corinthians that he has been feeding the Corinthians with milk, and not meat:
1Co 3:2  I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

This leads one to believe the meat Paul received earlier on was indeed spiritual meat. However, the Greek word Paul used in Corinthians was a different word, though about the same in meaning:
βρῶμα
brōma
bro'-mah
From the base of G977; food (literally or figuratively), especially (ceremonial) articles allowed or forbiden by the Jewish law: - meat, victuals.

However, Paul later mentions:

Heb 5:12  For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

This time the word he used to express meat is the same that was in acts: trophē.
With these facts in place, it is easy to see that milk and meat usually refer to the Scriptures, which also leads one to believe that Paul received spiritual meat. However, my question for you all is this: when things happen in the Bible that appears literal, are they equivocal? In other words, do they carry both the literal and spiritual meaning?

PS. I noticed Paul was prayed over to receive the Holy Spirit. Do you still need to be prayed over to receive the Holy Spirit today, or can you just ask?
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Chris R

  • Guest
hi
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2006, 08:38:18 PM »

hello,

 1Cr 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.  

 1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.  

Is there a physical truth in Scripture?

 Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.  

 Jhn 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.  

 Jhn 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.  

 Jhn 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.  

Christ did not speak to the multitude in parables so they could easily understand him, He spoke in parables to the multitudes so that many would NOT understand Him.

Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?  
 Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.  

It is all one big spirtual lesson, The entire Bible is a parable.

Peace

Chris R
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rvhill

  • Guest
Re: hi
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2006, 11:11:08 PM »

Quote from: Chris R
hello,

 1Cr 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.  

 1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.  

Is there a physical truth in Scripture?

 Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.  

 Jhn 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.  

 Jhn 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.  

 Jhn 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.  

Christ did not speak to the multitude in parables so they could easily understand him, He spoke in parables to the multitudes so that many would NOT understand Him.

Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?  
 Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.  

It is all one big spirtual lesson, The entire Bible is a parable.

Peace

Chris R


I disagree, and this why we need the Holy Spirit
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nightmare sasuke

  • Guest
Spirtual, physical, or both? Can it be both?
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2006, 11:34:34 PM »

Why do you disagree? Use some scriptures as proof.
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rvhill

  • Guest
Spirtual, physical, or both? Can it be both?
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2006, 05:03:01 AM »

Quote from: nightmare sasuke
Why do you disagree? Use some scriptures as proof.



Life is one big spiritual lesson, but the entire Bible is not a parable.  a parable is a story. A simple story illustrating a moral or religious lesson. here is the question is a parable a true a event or not? if a parable is a true event then, the eternal hell doctrine has a stronger footing? Or, do you believe that the story of Paul on the road to Damascus is a fictional account?

Now if you want to say it can also be used as a metaphor for the strong delusions and The “meat? of the word. I have no problem with that.


2 Corinthians 12
Paul's Vision and His Thorn
    1I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. 3And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell. 5I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself, except about my weaknesses. 6Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain, so no one will think more of me than is warranted by what I do or say.

    7To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. 10That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.



Do you believe this to be a factual account? If not what man could feed the meat of the word to this man?

 Remember even Paul say he does not understand this.
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Mickyd

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Spirtual, physical, or both? Can it be both?
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2006, 07:52:26 AM »

Quote from: rvhill
Life is one big spiritual lesson, but the entire Bible is not a parable.  a parable is a story. A simple story illustrating a moral or religious lesson. here is the question is a parable a true a event or not? if a parable is a true event then, the eternal hell doctrine has a stronger footing? Or, do you believe that the story of Paul on the road to Damascus is a fictional account?

Now if you want to say it can also be used as a metaphor for the strong delusions and The “meat? of the word. I have no problem with that.


I agree with that....but, there are far too many parables that people beilieve to be an actual historical account.

In the case of Paul, I DO believe he was physically blinded. This was probably the best way for God to truely get his full attention.
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Chris R

  • Guest
Hello,
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2006, 09:43:49 AM »

Hi Rvhill,

Thankyou for your note, and yes i said the bible was a parable, which in itself is wrong, i do apologize.

The Bible is "like" a parable, in that all that is written has twofold meanings, one physical one spiritual.

Yes it is correct that the Flood happened, and that the ark was constructed to save eight people.

But even the story of Noah has a spiritual lesson for all who read and understand

Hbr 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Peter understood this story, and what spiritual lesson it has for those called and chosen.

 1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.  

 1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:  

Christ is our Ark


Thanks for the correction

Peace

Chris R
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Steve Crook

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Spirtual, physical, or both? Can it be both?
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2006, 09:48:23 AM »

The entire bible IS A PARABLE. The entire bible is pointing to one thing, many called and few chosen in this age...all others in the Lake of Fire. All the things in the old test. happened for our admonition, as well as all the things that happened to Christ and his apostles. With Christ being the LORD and God of the old, and NOT THE FATHER, do you think Christians and/or physical Jews believe that?

Sure there is a physical connotation to the old testament, but it is INDEED a parable also. From the beginning , to the end of Revelation, it is a parable. (Gen 1:1)  In the beginning (FIRSTFRUITS) God created the heaven and the earth

Of course our Father created the physical earth, but there is a MUCH BIGGER spiritual lesson FROM THE VERY FIRST VERSE...and NONE of CHRISTIANITY knows it.

The Holy spirit, as you mention, is the medium that is used to open up our understanding. When Christ is the ONLY ONE who is worthy to open up the seven seals of this book, what do you think that means? Who is the Holy Spirit OF? The WHOLE SCRIPTURE is about the FIRSTFRUITS.

Now, that IS a massive parable!

Amen!
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Dan

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Spirtual, physical, or both? Can it be both?
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2006, 01:00:48 PM »

Amen Steve and Chris,



we have nothing to worry about


 Jhn 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
Jhn 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
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Steve Crook

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Spirtual, physical, or both? Can it be both?
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2006, 01:30:05 PM »

Quote from: Dan
Amen Steve and Chris,



we have nothing to worry about


 Jhn 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
Jhn 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.


I whole-heartedly agree. Amen! When I tell my family, friends, and even my own wife that I worry about NOTHING, they just simple think I'm lying. Worrying and CARING are 2 different things. I care what happens, etc., but I do not WORRY about what happens. When one comes to understand the true nature of our Father and that his Will is the cause of all, WHAT PEACE THEY POSSESS!!!!!

It definitely is something that NO ONE can understand unless our Father open their heart, mind, eyes, and ears to it. What a glorious Lord we all have!

Steve
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