> General Discussions
Questioning Paul
Samson:
--- Quote from: Astrapho on May 11, 2009, 09:03:56 AM ---Hey guys!
Anyway I was having a discussion with someone over the internet, and he brought up something quite interesting...
--- Quote ---A difference that I have, that I have noticed among people who follow Jesus is that they seem to be less adamant on quoting his actual words and favor quoting other peoples more, I only quote Jesus because I KNOW his word is no argument, more valid than anyone else. Reading the other words of people is very relevant, as it is part of the whole search, yet when you start to really pick at scripture you discover some startling truths.
I feel safe enough to raise anything as I have already stated that I have a thinking character and I will continue this way otherwise truth will never come about. I appreciate the letters to the Romans you quote yet, at the end of the day these were written by Paul. Obviously Paul never met Jesus so to me he automatically loses credibility. I cannot even be sure that he was not the first version of Joseph Smith (founder of mormonism). He had a vision of Jesus just like Paul claims. I start to question the reliability of Paul when he even has differing viewpoints of James and the original disciples of Jesus, who were actually with him. Straight away I must ask, "Who is more reliable? the one who says he had a vision, the ones who lived and walked with him, or even better, Jesus himself?"
It is basically a question of Jesus came and taught truth, he fulfilled his calling, died and resurrected, he himself admitting that his death and resurrection is the ONLY sign that would be given to the people of who he is(Matt 16;4), not to mention on the cross Jesus final words were..."It is finished" before finally saying "Father,into your hands I commend my spirit."
"It is finished" he is saying "Mission complete." His disciples were who had to carry on the message as he revealed all to them,after doing all he did in his life and choosing the twelve and revealing everything to them, Pauls whole story seems out of place, maybe even not required. It might sound blasphemous to doubt Paul, but I will not let man stop my inquiring mind, I cannot honestly rule out that he was the first opportunist for starting a religion, Scurrying about sending his opinion to all surrounding provinces, Jesus warned of false teachers coming after him, I understand that he glorified Jesus but so do many Charlatans today but we know it does not mean they are true, in fact a lot of his warnings about a lot of things happened very soon after, it doesn't mean it all has to take place 2000 years later., after all Jesus founded the rock of his church on Peter, not Paul (Matt 16:18)
--- End quote ---
I've been thinking about this, but quite frankly I'm going nowhere other than, "Hey, this kinda makes sense." .
What do you guys think? :)
--- End quote ---
Astrapho,
If we take what this Guy on the internet said regarding as to what Jesus said from the Gospels in
comparison to what Paul and others have said, then follow that line of reasoning to it's ultimate
conclusion, one could reason further, that we don't even know what Jesus actually said.
Why do I say this ? Because none of the original writings remain from the First Century, only copies
of copies remain of the original Manuscripts, we have the Vatican 1209 from 332 A.D. and the Sinaitic.
The Vatican 1209 Manuscript is the oldest of the fully complete Manuscripts. Further we know from
our studies at this Site that Man has tampered with the Scriptures, mistranslating certain key words,
adding spurious passages, relying on their God of "context" for interpretation, etc, etc. My point is that
" All Scripture is inspired of God and is beneficial for teaching, reproving, setting things straight, so the
Man of God can be fully competent for every good work. " The Words that Jesus is recorded as saying
in the Gospels don't weaken or lessen those Scriptures that are credited to Paul. Paul through inspiration
wrote most of the New Testament. If we take that one step further, what about the Hebrew/Aramaic
Scriptures(Old Testament), as Ray had said on at least one occasion, the Old Testament is a much
bigger book, we can't discount that either, even though Jesus is not credited with putting that directly in
written form.
I brought this entire Post of mine up, only because, either way, Faith is required to believe the Scriptures,
not a blind faith and only God can cause us to have a genuine faith in the reliability of the Scriptures
and to comprehend them.
Kind Regards, Samson.
Marky Mark:
--- Quote from: Astrapho on May 11, 2009, 09:03:56 AM ---Hey guys!
Anyway I was having a discussion with someone over the internet, and he brought up something quite interesting...
--- Quote ---A difference that I have, that I have noticed among people who follow Jesus is that they seem to be less adamant on quoting his actual words and favor quoting other peoples more, I only quote Jesus because I KNOW his word is no argument, more valid than anyone else. Reading the other words of people is very relevant, as it is part of the whole search, yet when you start to really pick at scripture you discover some startling truths.
I feel safe enough to raise anything as I have already stated that I have a thinking character and I will continue this way otherwise truth will never come about. I appreciate the letters to the Romans you quote yet, at the end of the day these were written by Paul. Obviously Paul never met Jesus so to me he automatically loses credibility. I cannot even be sure that he was not the first version of Joseph Smith (founder of mormonism). He had a vision of Jesus just like Paul claims. I start to question the reliability of Paul when he even has differing viewpoints of James and the original disciples of Jesus, who were actually with him. Straight away I must ask, "Who is more reliable? the one who says he had a vision, the ones who lived and walked with him, or even better, Jesus himself?"
It is basically a question of Jesus came and taught truth, he fulfilled his calling, died and resurrected, he himself admitting that his death and resurrection is the ONLY sign that would be given to the people of who he is(Matt 16;4), not to mention on the cross Jesus final words were..."It is finished" before finally saying "Father,into your hands I commend my spirit."
"It is finished" he is saying "Mission complete." His disciples were who had to carry on the message as he revealed all to them,after doing all he did in his life and choosing the twelve and revealing everything to them, Pauls whole story seems out of place, maybe even not required. It might sound blasphemous to doubt Paul, but I will not let man stop my inquiring mind, I cannot honestly rule out that he was the first opportunist for starting a religion, Scurrying about sending his opinion to all surrounding provinces, Jesus warned of false teachers coming after him, I understand that he glorified Jesus but so do many Charlatans today but we know it does not mean they are true, in fact a lot of his warnings about a lot of things happened very soon after, it doesn't mean it all has to take place 2000 years later., after all Jesus founded the rock of his church on Peter, not Paul (Matt 16:18)
--- End quote ---
What do you guys think? :) (())
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
You Asked ;)
Peace...Mark
--- End quote ---
Astrapho:
--- Quote --- (())
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
You Asked Wink
--- End quote ---
Zocrapxorz! God has not opened my eyes! :o
Akira329:
--- Quote from: Astrapho on May 11, 2009, 12:54:30 PM ---
--- Quote --- (())
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
You Asked Wink
--- End quote ---
Zocrapxorz! God has not opened my eyes! :o
What does that mean??
Have you been helped by what was said?
--- End quote ---
Astrapho:
--- Quote from: Akira329 on May 11, 2009, 02:35:12 PM ---
--- Quote from: Astrapho on May 11, 2009, 12:54:30 PM ---
--- Quote --- (())
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
You Asked Wink
--- End quote ---
Zocrapxorz! God has not opened my eyes! :o
What does that mean??
Have you been helped by what was said?
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
Yep, I've been helped immensely, thanks guys!! :D I've finished typing up a reply to the guy now, in fact. ;D
'Twas a joke, I couldn't see "anything" in Marky's post... ;)
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