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Craig:
This is addressed to anyone who wishes to debate topics with others.

Does it ever work?  Have you ever changed someones mind?  Have you had your mind changed?  Debate is an effort in futility.  There is so much more to do with our time, we can study, or more importantly strive to live a life of Christ in us.  If we became that type of example there would be very little to debate.

I'm as bad as anyone, why do we do it?  Is it to show our superior understanding?  Is it because we have our own doubts and want others to agree with us to fulfill our own needs?  I find as I become older the best thing to do is present scripture and Ray's teaching and leave it at that.  That is planting a seed.  Let God make it germinate and provide the nourishment, that is not our job.

How 'bout the forum.  Why do we not allow teaching?  Because it is always open to debate, I say you are wrong and then you want me to prove why you are wrong and so it goes.  It is all very tiresome.  We are brought here by the scriptures and the knowledge conveyed to Ray, we should mostly be in agreement, if you disagree only Ray can or should  defend his writings.  When the time comes when Ray can no longer answer for himself perhaps God will show the way, but maybe not, it is all of Him.  If I took a tenth of the knowledge I've learned here and let its message live in me, it would take all of my lifetime to even begin.  Why do we rush things so much, why can't we be content to let God's knowledge seep into us.  Remember it took Paul many years to begin his ministry.  Many years of learning but more importantly many years of dieing to self.

A member recently stated "but what will guarantee to bring in new donations other then new Inspired topics"  Whaaaat?  This ministry has never been about money, God has controlled where it is and where it will go.  Nobody had ever taken a nickel of salary for their time or commitment, not even Ray. It runs on a shoestring and yet here you are, remember God is in charge, not your money.  If new "Inspired topics" is what is needed to keep the ministry afloat, then I say let'r sink.  I have never yet found topics from any other teachers that has brought the peace or spirit of truth found in Ray's writings.  I find many interesting topics but none gives me the settled feeling I get with Ray's writings.  I am not saying there are not other inspired teachers, if there are then God will lead me to them if it is His will, and the peace of spirit will be there if it is true.

Craig

aqrinc:

I second that motion, Craig. Several times i thought i had changed someones mind. In fact they just disguised their true thoughts and conversation with me. Being human, we always think we can make the difference if only the other person can see my point.

What always happens is, our instincts for fight or flight kick in whenever our beliefs are challenged. That is why The Scriptures Say:

Rom 12: 1-5 (MKJV)
1  I beseech you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, pleasing to God, which is your reasonable service.
2  And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, in order to prove by you what is that good and pleasing and perfect will of God.
3  For I say, through the grace given to me, to every one who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think. But set your mind to be right-minded, even as God has dealt to every man the measure of faith.
4  For even as we have many members in one body, and all members do not have the same function,
5  so we the many are one body in Christ, and each one members of one another.

george. :)

Marky Mark:
Email to Ray. [Bold emphasis mine].

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3703.0.html

Dear Bill:
If you don't understand the mind of a Christian you will never understand why people like me do not usually debate them.  Let's say that they bring up a point (about anything) and you have Scripture that speaks directly to this point. Can you quote that Scripture to a Christian to make your point? NO, no you can't. Why is that? Because the second you quote it (according to them) you TOOK IT OUT OF CONTEXT. And to them, no Scripture is true "out of context."  "God is love" (I John 4:8), but ONLY IN THE CONTEXT OF I John 4:8. You cannot just quote a Scripture and believe that it is a statement of fact or statement of eternal truth. They won't hear of it.  But don't they quote Scripture to support their views. Yes, of course they do, but they use them IN CONTEXT.  Who determines whether their use is in context and your use is not in context?  Why THEY DO, of course, and that is because they understand hermeneutics and you don't. See the difference?  I don't either, but that's just the way it is. If you can corner a snake in a briar patch, then you can debate a Christian with the Scriptures.
God be with you,
Ray





Peace...Mark

Marlene:
I so agree with you Craig and George. What brought me in here was sin in my life. Also, thinking how often I thought i was doomed for Hell. Little did I know that it did not exist. I came in with the hope it didn't exist. When, God showed me these truths and I believed, God gave me the understanding not to let Babylon steal these truths from me. I had already done research on Calvin, Weslely, Luther , and others. I did not see anyway for anyone to miss going to Hell. I knew, there had to be more to then just believe in God.

This verse helped me to see something was wrong with Babylon. 1 Corinthians Chapter 14 verse 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.  I saw I had confusion and no peace. I had thought I had sinned so greatly God had no alternative but to send me to the fabled Hell. Hebrews 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. God had forgiven me of that sin, but I could not believe it cause I had no truth. God used these verses to bring me to hate Hell. I never did like the thought of it, But, it is all you ever heard for years.

God used them same verses to show me I had no truth. To show me God is Love. I typed in Hell and I have been reading Ray's articles ever since. I am no way enduring pain quite like Ray. But, I do have an everyday battle with pain, diabetes, arthritis. God is helping me to watch closely what I eat. I have had very good times and very bad times over my years. But, I can say more better days now that God is aiding me. But, trials make us stronger. .

Now God uses those verses in Hebrews 10  to keep me walking with him. Hebrews 10 verse 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgement and fierey indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.  Can you even see how without  truths I did not even know that it did not mean Hell. I mean it said, Judgement, but I was blind and I did not have truth. God had everything timed perfectly for me to believe.  I have no interest in debating about this anymore. God is able to take care of all of us in his time. Secondly, it is a waste of the time God has to train us for a bigger purpose  , when he returns for his Elect. This is the truth and we need to stop trying to do Gods work and do what the scriptures Geoge gave shows us. Do, we like to debate because we think we know it all or do we like to learn  what God wants us to do.

Babylon, has already had more of my life then I like. I want to learn. I want to let God teach me. He used Ray and in my opinion I don't even come close to being used. I have shared with my Dr. of DC but just that he did not think Hell was for people. But, everything is in Gods hands. All, I said, to him was that Jesus is the Saviour of the World . That, made his mouth drop and he smiled at me. I let him talk and that is all I said to him. He never said anymore after that. But, saw him yesterday and he told me he saw that I had less anxiety in my life then from the last 3 years I have gone to him. So, he brought things up and I just said what God led me to say and left it at that. He asked me to write Ray's website down. I just will leave it up to him to say something.

But, I will not try to debate and waste anymore time with the blind. They are blind because God has it that way. Its the will of God when any of us are brought to the truth. I can assure you from my experience that this was only God who brought me hear and any of the rest of us. The devil will try to take away these truths. I had that thrown at my spirit off an on. But, now I know that God is taking care of him. I just pray every day God help me to endure. If not for God I could not even give that prayer out. All, Glory Be To God! We are blessed by God to have Brother Ray and I thank God for this gift everyday.

In His Love,
Marlene

musicman:
Oh come on now!!  I know my topics have brought great donations to the bible truths community.  Why, my spiritual insight into god through the mirricle of the koolaid should have people running for their check books.

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