bible-truths.com/forums
=> General Discussions => Topic started by: mickiel on October 27, 2013, 04:02:02 PM
-
I was looking at some of the answers that Ray gave in his emails, and his exchange with an Atheist who asked if God exist was interesting. He told the man if he exist, then God exist; and if God did not exist, then neither would he. That got me to thinking a bit; I have had exchanges with Atheist plenty of times over the years, yet in all my learning, I wonder if I can explain how God exist, and am I getting better at explaining it? Do I even hold the right patience to explain it? Do I think its even worth trying to explain it? I used to take no thought of speaking with Atheist, now I kind of enjoy it a bit. I don't try an convert anyone, but I enjoy a decent exchange with believers or unbelievers; I just like talking about God and my belief, when the opportunity presents itself. Two reasons why Ray got a lot of emails; people were curious, and he was willing to communicate with them. I hope I never loose that willingness to communicate about God, especially with unbelievers.
Should those conversations be rare? Or should they be increasing in your witness? Should we be witnessing, and how? What is a witness? Did Jesus do it? Or did he think himself different and stay off to himself or with just his friends? If someone knew the truth, what should they do with it? Is it just God's business, and you stay out of it?
What do you say to an Atheist who has an inquiring mind? And they honestly ask you if God is real, and can you prove it; or at least explain it as best you can? What are you going to say? What have you prepared to give? Or are you prepared to offer something about your belief?
In my experience with some Atheist, they will question every single thing; often ask for proof, then when you give them something, they just spit on it anyway, then ask for more. But should that keep you from being prepared? Does that ruin my study and my willingness to explain all that I can about this God I believe in? And you know what, it doesn't! I actually enjoy the exchanges and it keeps me on my toes; helps the rust from doing nothing and saying nothing about God, get oiled.
I need to talk about God, or I just don't feel right. That's one value in websites; fellowship and challenges.
Is it wrong to like talking about your beliefs?
Does it get rusty if you don't?
I recall years ago putting together a list of answers for Atheist when they ask me to explain if God is real. The list is over 100 now, and I enjoy keep adding to it more each year; this website is one of the proofs I have used over the years. Referred people to it.
But I think its a good question to ask yourself; can you explain God?
-
Nature itself declares Gods existence but if anyone said to me prove God exist I would counter that by saying prove he does not.
Ray spoke of the human eye and how he could do a fifty page essay on it let alone two eyes side by side.
I believe unless God opens ones eye with faith its impossible for one to believe so God is not dealing with that one at this time.
Hope that helps.
Love and peace to all.
-
Nature itself declares Gods existence but if anyone said to me prove God exist I would counter that by saying prove he does not.
Ray spoke of the human eye and how he could do a fifty page essay on it let alone two eyes side by side.
I believe unless God opens ones eye with faith its impossible for one to believe so God is not dealing with that one at this time.
Hope that helps.
Love and peace to all.
The burden of proof is on the claim-maker, one does not have to prove a negative. I can make the claim that Odin exists - prove he does not - see?
-
Hi mickiel, good thoughts. I do feel I have been given a great amount of faith to believe in God and what He is doing. But I take no credit for the faith I have and I understand how some just do not have faith... because it is a gift, in no way earned or deserved. It is purely by His grace that anybody has faith and to what degree.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
So I can't really argue with somebody that does not believe. But if somebody has a desire to believe then I would say run with that, because we all have had our start at some point.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
-
Study biology and you'll realize there is a God.
I think there is a misunderstanding about science out there and many athiests.
Many athiests think science proves there is no God due to alternative explanations. That is not really the truth though.
Science explains what it can because it uses the natural world which it can observe, measure, quantify and study to come up with explanations. God is SUPERnatural and therefor, science CANNOT measure Him or even attempt to invoke His name in an explanation as it would go against everything SCIENCE is. The study of the NATURAL world.
NOW that being said, MANY SCIENTISTS believe IN GOD. They might not KNOW who He IS or even follow a particular religion (mostly because religion makes it too easy for the thinking man not to believe in God) but nonetheless, many DO believe in SOME sort of creator or higher power.
If you study biology, it is literally impossible to believe God doesn't exist. It really is. The inner workings of the cell are mind boggling. The complexity is absolutely mind blowing. I have many friends that are current scientists and biolgists in the field with me and I can't think of one of them who doesn't believe in some form of higher power.
It is the mainstreem world and the ignorant atheists who use science and "evolution" or "big bang" as proof there is no God.
Go get your degree in biology, youll never doubt the existance of God again.
Edit: I wanted to add one more thing, there are scientists and even biologists who don't believe in God but I just wanted to make it very clear that it isn't black and white and that the line is very much blurred and I would dare say that you would find the majority of scientists (especially in the fields of biology) to believe in a higher power.
-
I do always encounter that question either from athiests or from other denominations.....
My simple answer is this......
Ok i will give you the simplest answer if you can tell me where is the starting and ending point of a circle...... :) ;)
-
I dont know, maybe a _ _ _ did it! :( Bless you all. Ricky
-
God says I can't explain God.
Mickiel, for me "Is there a God?" almost doesn't qualify as a question, even if it has a question mark. Without HIM, there is nothing. Not even "empty space" nothing. Can you or anybody else really understand "nothing"? If there was nothing, would you be there to contemplate it?
-
I don't go out of my way to speak to athiests but when they do ask me a question about the existence of God I think John said it well...
"It's pretty easy. Where did all the stuff come from? Either Someone very smart and powerful made the stuff, or the stuff made itself. How can stuff make itself? If you believe it did, then prove it, show me."
In so many words, that's what I will talk to them about because in no way are they looking spiritually with spiritual eyes. I just approach it from the type and shadow physical side.
I basically tell them a story and place them in it...... "If you were an astronaut and you flew to Pluto, and after you landed, you jump out of the shuttle and on the ground is a swingset (a kids play toy, or whatever). The first thing you would logically think is.... 'Someone has been here before me and made this and sat this swingset here on Pluto'.
It's the same with any object you see or hear or feel or smell or taste. It has an origin. An originator. Stuff doesn't make itself. There is some grand intelligent being that started all this. It takes power and intelligence to create anything.
That's how I start out. You can't explain to them the circle theory, the circle theory doesn't explain anything.... that such and such created such and such and so on and so forth, rubbish. THERE IS AN ORIGIN. There HAS to be an originator for ANYTHING at all to exist. Logically, there has to be a Beginning.
I remember, I spoke with an athiest one time and he said... "Okay, I get that, but why would an originator create all this death and pain and suffering? Why burn everyone in fire forever for not believing Him and then call Himself love?
THAT, I think is the real issue athiests have with religion. Most religions teach that if you don't follow their ways you get punished forever or destroyed. Then of course you give them the gospel of the kingdom... the old man and new man. knowing good AND evil, you can't have one without the other etc... If they logic this out, and of course God's spirit is working in them, they will begin to understand.
In the past athiests use to argue and argue with me and I use to give them the same christian orthodox answers, "Well, they will burn in Hell forever, etc..." No wonder they would argue with me. My explaining to them that God is love but will burn most people DID NOT make sense to them. I was just parroting what I had been told believing it to be right. Thank you LORD you pulled me out of that.
To me, an Athiest is a person who believes there is no God. Logically, it's not possible to consider yourself an athiest. If they base all they know on "sound logical princibles" then they would have to call themselves a Agnostic. Which means, they don't know whether or not there is a God, there may or may not be one. You would have to know all the knowledge in the universe to logically call yourself an athiest.
-
I forgot to add.....
Logically they can't call themselves an athiest... because they would have to know all the knowledge in the universe to determine whether or not there is a God. Athiests can BELIEVE that there is no God, but then they are basing that on faith, or belief alone. Not sound, logical thinking.
Prove to me that there IS NOT an invisible flying speghetti monster who created us all.
Oh you can't prove me wrong? Well then why are you logically calling yourself an athiest?
They really are agnostic, they just don't want to admit it. And because they don't really know if there is a God or not, there might be..... we introduce them to that "unkown" God like Paul did in Acts.
I think like 90 or 93% of the world believes in some type of a God (latest statistic? it was a very high number) Athiesm is not common.
God gives us a brain for a reason.
-
You're describing me in certain details there, se7en, before B-T. I was an agnostic, and would have been an 'atheist' if I could have been. When you don't even like the 'god' you have, you'd just as soon be rid of him.
-
Proof Kills Faith:
Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
-
It is interesting to think about the proofs of God and to know them. And one could never know enough of them. Such as " Increasing Complexity", complex things can only come from complex things, ( Or Life can only come from Life.) Or the " Anthropic Principles"; which means if one walked down a street and saw a dime on the ground, they may think nothing of it. They walk further and see three dimes on the ground, they may now think someone has dropped them. Then they walk further and discover 100 dimes on the ground, yet each standing on their edges- complettely balanced; now one can correctly assume that this was " Deliberately Done!" That is the Anthropic Priniciples in a nutshell; we can look at the Universe and many things and see that this had to be deliberately done. And things like this can be explained. One verse in scripture advises to " Prove all things", certainly God himself would be included in that; if one would care to take the time to do it to themselves. Prove it to yourself.
I often go through it with myself. Faith is one thing good to have, reason and logical proof is another. I kind of think we can use biblical archaeology to prove it; even science and history. There are many ways to prove God, and just as many reasons to do it. Faith is a strength for believers, but when speaking with an unbeliever or an Atheist, they won't understand or accept that. Dealing with an unbeliever can be an excercise, and could work you over; and some of those work outs can be good for faith; in a manner of speaking.
-
God says I can't explain God.
Mickiel, for me "Is there a God?" almost doesn't qualify as a question, even if it has a question mark. Without HIM, there is nothing. Not even "empty space" nothing. Can you or anybody else really understand "nothing"? If there was nothing, would you be there to contemplate it?
I think " The Nothing", is a good point of proof for God; so many have fallen for " The Nothing", and actually believe all this came from nothing. Which is incredible assumption! They would rather give creation over to nothing, than give the credit to a God. Some give credit to this " Big Bang Theory", as if all this " Life" came from a super explosion that generated from nothing; how they feel and reason that life could originate from a destructive explosion, is beyond me.
-
Hi mickiel, good thoughts. I do feel I have been given a great amount of faith to believe in God and what He is doing. But I take no credit for the faith I have and I understand how some just do not have faith... because it is a gift, in no way earned or deserved. It is purely by His grace that anybody has faith and to what degree.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
So I can't really argue with somebody that does not believe. But if somebody has a desire to believe then I would say run with that, because we all have had our start at some point.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Greetings,
I certainly wish I had more faith, its a wonderful thing to have I would imagine. So I have to often argue with others using reason, facts, history and reality as it is and has been. Which is hard at times, some people are really sharp and intelligent; but yet they are curious about God. Strangely interested really;( some of them I call " Closet believers", just not out of the closet.) I like asking the question: " If your not interested in God, then why are you so interested?" I tell you, I am just amazed at how many Atheist are invading religious message boards lately, and in some places, literally taking them over from believers.
-
I tell you, I am just amazed at how many Atheist are invading religious message boards lately, and in some places, literally taking them over from believers.
Probably a sign that we shouldn't be on message boards in the first place. :)
-
Maybe we should tell those guys that God came from nothing!! and took over the place Ricky
-
They would believe it decause its not the truth. :(
-
I tell you, I am just amazed at how many Atheist are invading religious message boards lately, and in some places, literally taking them over from believers.
Probably a sign that we shouldn't be on message boards in the first place. :)
I kind of like seeing how different people are thinking, and letting them know how I think. Letting them know there is another way that the biblical message is explained; that there is a gospel that excludes nobody and a salvation that encompasses all people and secures them. And many of them have never heard that and listen to it being explained. It affords an opportunity to explain God; ( for those who still like doing it.)
-
Some have mentioned the awe-inspiring creation as proof of God's existence. But I think for many atheists there is something that bothers them more than the idea of a creator: the so-called "problem" of evil. There is a lot of horrific suffering and evil in this world, much of it caused by man's hatred for man, but also because of natural things like hurricanes and earthquakes. An atheist in Oklahoma might lose his daughter in a tornado, and that is proof enough for him that God does not exist. As horrific as it is, though, a tornado in Oklahoma is a very small thing compared to the size of the universe. So the atheist says, "If God can create this incredible universe, surely he could stop a tornado from happening on tiny planet earth." Or "If God can create this incredible universe, surely he could make humans that don't hate and kill each other." A co-worker in her early 20s told me she used to believe in God, but she doesn't anymore because her dad died. Not meaning to be disrespectful to her feelings, I thought this was a rather arrogant reason for not believing in God. "Never mind the fact that everyone in history before us has died, if somebody I love dies, then there must be no God." For some people, that's all it takes.
Yesterday I was listening to "Does A Sovereign God Change?" and Ray said something like "People like to believe that God changes his mind, because every notch God goes down, they go up. You don't know how badly people want to be on par with God!" That is the crux of this problem of evil. People want to play God. "If I was God, I would do it this way." "If I was all-powerful, I would just make a perfect world." I suspect many Christians feel this way too, not just atheists and agnostics.
Also, as se7en mentioned, some are atheists because of "hell".
-
I've never heard or read that atheists claim that "all this" came out of nothing. They quote chemistry which teaches that matter is neither created nor destroyed. Isn't this what we see happening in the universe? Burn a piece of paper. Where does it go? Did you annihilate the piece of paper by burning it? I think not.
To demand proof of God is for the spiritually dead. But we have been given the faith to believe God's existence. It is of God that you have the chance to speak with atheists.
Interesting to think that the Christian church is the one to witness. Could it be that's the reason the arm of The Lord is hard at work in their midst healing the sick, casting out evil spirits, etc, etc? I have seen my share of healings and casting out of evil spirits.
Have you read the testimonies of the persecuted Christians in China? Read of the miracles that God has worked in their midst?
-
Yeah Jesse... "If I was God, I would do it this way." "If I was all-powerful, I would just make a perfect world."
That sooooo sums up the spirit of the world.
It's that they don't realize God is in the middle of creating perfection, right now even, it's perfect, just as God intended it to be at this moment and time. Everything is exactly as it should be. That is absolutely comforting. :)
-
Jesus is a way to explain that God exist, and even some Atheist admit he did exist in our history. Getting them to see Jesus was historical is helpful; and quite easy to do. You could tell them we have the actual bone box of the high Priest Caiaphas, who slapped Jesus in the face. We also have the bones of Simon the Cyrenian, who helped Jesus carry his cross. We have the actual house of Martha and Mary, we have the place where Jesus was killed, Golgotha; the Place of the Skull. We have the river Jesus was baptised in, Jordan; the garden he prayed in, and the Damascus Gate he was marched through; and even the spot he stood on before Pilot, the " Via Dolorosa." Taking them through an historical factual trip through history can be stunning to them, and you can even tell them many writers in history wrote about Jesus; those writers include;
Tertullian, Suetonius, Thallus, Origen, Lucian, Celsus, Sextus Julius Africanus, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, Dionysius the Areopagite, Hegesippus, Clement, Conon, Porphyry of Tyre, Polycarp, Eusebius, Irenaeus, Ignatius, Justin Martyr, Phlegon, Mara Bar-Serapion, Trajans correspondance with Pliny, The Toledot Yeshu ( which is anti Christian), Chrysostom, Clemet of Alexandria, Macarius the Elder, Ussher, Paulus Orosius, Aristides the Athenian, Augustine of Hippo, Quadratus of Athens, The Babylonian Talmud, along with others. Such lists will tend to be meaningful in an effort to explain that God exist. In 1 Thess. 5:21, " But examine " Everything carefully", some bibles render " Prove all things." Hold fast to that which is good. I think its a good thing to examine God, or to prove that he exist. He is our destiny, and its absolutely nothing wrong with confirming our destiny, in my view. Or explaining it to others. I listen to so many " Deceived Christians" giving their explinations to others, why should I stand silent and not give what I view as a better more clear explination? Well I don't, but to each their own. I like doing it, and have done it everywhere for years. I like this Gospel of the Salvation of all, Love it really. Love to hear it, and I like the way Ray taught it; gave his witness.
I don't think enough people do it. I wish more would explain God. Its not like this world does not need it.
-
Some have mentioned the awe-inspiring creation as proof of God's existence. But I think for many atheists there is something that bothers them more than the idea of a creator: the so-called "problem" of evil. There is a lot of horrific suffering and evil in this world, much of it caused by man's hatred for man, but also because of natural things like hurricanes and earthquakes. An atheist in Oklahoma might lose his daughter in a tornado, and that is proof enough for him that God does not exist. As horrific as it is, though, a tornado in Oklahoma is a very small thing compared to the size of the universe. So the atheist says, "If God can create this incredible universe, surely he could stop a tornado from happening on tiny planet earth." Or "If God can create this incredible universe, surely he could make humans that don't hate and kill each other." A co-worker in her early 20s told me she used to believe in God, but she doesn't anymore because her dad died. Not meaning to be disrespectful to her feelings, I thought this was a rather arrogant reason for not believing in God. "Never mind the fact that everyone in history before us has died, if somebody I love dies, then there must be no God." For some people, that's all it takes.
Yesterday I was listening to "Does A Sovereign God Change?" and Ray said something like "People like to believe that God changes his mind, because every notch God goes down, they go up. You don't know how badly people want to be on par with God!" That is the crux of this problem of evil. People want to play God. "If I was God, I would do it this way." "If I was all-powerful, I would just make a perfect world." I suspect many Christians feel this way too, not just atheists and agnostics.
Also, as se7en mentioned, some are atheists because of "hell".
I think many people do want to " Be on par with God", but simply just don't know how. They don't know where we came from , or are going ( and some of them reject the idiot idea of hell.) Some have been taught that humans are continuous with the idiot hierarchy of speechless apes; and others admit its just a mystery; I think the world is ripe for the real truth; the need is plentiful, but the labourers few.
-
but to each their own.
Hi mickiel, that comment I believe says a lot. We all have different tendencies, some want to witness about what they believe, others have no desire to do it at all and those in between too. That is one aspect of the uniqueness we all have, it's the different dispositions that we possess.
If somebody believes something to be true, then I guess they tend to want others to share in what they know and that's not a bad thing. We're all on somewhat different journeys though and we believe what we do because of the background knowledge we have acquired so far. Maybe you will be the source of information that will help somebody believe, that's part of your journey. It's all of God.
Pro 16:9 A man's heart plans his way,
But the LORD directs his steps.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
-
Hi,
So there is no ill use your term god, well why then ask if there is no god in the first place because by asking youv allready accepted there is a god, all your trying to do is say you dont belive in one,
you do by the mere fact you asked, other wise it would never come up.
And when you take that ? further what god are you talking about or reffering to,, how many 100's are there,,,,,go back to the Canaanites see how many they worshiped,
...noeleena...
-
but to each their own.
Hi mickiel, that comment I believe says a lot. We all have different tendencies, some want to witness about what they believe, others have no desire to do it at all and those in between too. That is one aspect of the uniqueness we all have, it's the different dispositions that we possess.
If somebody believes something to be true, then I guess they tend to want others to share in what they know and that's not a bad thing. We're all on somewhat different journeys though and we believe what we do because of the background knowledge we have acquired so far. Maybe you will be the source of information that will help somebody believe, that's part of your journey. It's all of God.
Pro 16:9 A man's heart plans his way,
But the LORD directs his steps.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Well I agree, witnessing is not for everybody, and I don't think its wrong not to do it, and one is not made righteous by doing it. I think its something that has to " Be in you to do." If its in you, its just going to come out of you, and that person perhaps can't hold it in them anyway. I was in the Baptist church for years in my youth, then left there and tried a few others; that did not work and I ended up doing a 10 year stint in the Worldwide Church of God. They did not do the witness thing, and I left there when they split up. So my journey has had a mixture of witnessing, and not witnessing; both. Then I evolved into just being put in situations where I just had to do it; I got tired of not doing it, no longer content in remaining silent, like I was a secret agent of the truth or someone with privileged information. I got used to sharing what I believe and have not looked back. I don't condemn others if they don't do it, nor do I pat myself on the back for doing it.
I just do it; and have done it for years. I hold no regrets.
I spread this truth as I understand it; with great Joy in sharing it, and have learned a great deal sharing it. I have learned how many people hate this truth, many are surprised by it, and some amazed by it. Jesus was an excellent example of sharing truth, he did not horde it to himself. He took no worry of who understood it, and he did both; he shared with believers and unbelievers alike. Often teaching just his disciples at times, and just anybody who was there at times. He perhaps did not have a whole lot of private time to himself, but I don't think Jesus was sent to earth to be a private eye individual who was into only his group. He was destined to be a world Savior, a man for all peoples. He had to address everyone, because he died for everyone and everyone will benefit from that.
No, I can't go the " Quiet path", its way too much to say and way too many people to say it to. But I understand the quiet laid back path, the ' Come out from among them mentality." I see nothing wrong with that, its just not for me. I live among them, work among them and communicate with them everyday. Have married them, had children by them, and walked with " Them" all my life. So I won't come out from among them, I just will not be a part of their beliefs and practices. But I have many friends in their churches and many of my people are in them.
So yes, to each their own.
-
Hi,
So there is no ill use your term god, well why then ask if there is no god in the first place because by asking youv allready accepted there is a god, all your trying to do is say you dont belive in one,
you do by the mere fact you asked, other wise it would never come up.
And when you take that ? further what god are you talking about or reffering to,, how many 100's are there,,,,,go back to the Canaanites see how many they worshiped,
...noeleena...
I personally believe there is only one God who is the source of all things, there is a god of this earth, and many human created gods. That's how it breaks down in my view. I think the question, " Is there a God?", is an excellent question; to which I believe are many answers to, and many mystery's as well. Men have asked that question for years, and I think rightly so. Many humans just sense there IS something to it; and I totally believe that God IS; and is worth looking into.
-
Here is something Ray said about telling only those who ask you.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7347.0.html
I can see Rays point and I agree with it; I just happen to be in a place where I get asked a lot, but I am not limited to just being asked. I have posted on so many websites over the last 15 years, I just communicate with a lot of people. And I enjoy the freedom of posting on those sites, and have started many threads on the truth, without being asked. But just as many from being asked; so again, I understand both, but am not limited to either. Its just been a different path. Rays way is not the only way, but its a good way; and I understand his way of seeing things.
-
In explaining how God exist, The Law of Mentality can be used, the universe is a Mental creation. The Law of Perpetual Transmutation, God can be explained, energy is in a constant state of change. Morality can explain God, how could morality have created itself? The Fossil record can explain God creating. Biblical Archaeology can help explain God; The fall of Nineveh as predicted by the prophets Nahum and Zephaniah ( 2:13-15), found recorded on the " Tablet of Nabopolasar." The fall of Jerusalem to Nebuchadnezzar King of Babylon, ( 2 Kings 24:10-14), as found recorded on the Babylonian Chronicles. The siege of Lachish by Sennacherib ( 2 Kings 18:14,17), as discovered recorded on the Lachish Reliefs. Solid recorded history that is recorded in the bible as well.
Consciousness can be used to explain God, consciousness cannot arrive from mere matter; we can be aware of God, conscious of him; and he gave us consciousness to help govern our behavior. With it we have a degree of reflection. We can think about God, and accept or reject what the world has to say about him. I think Consciousness is what Col. 3:10-11 means by Christ is all and in all; all humans are conscious, and in Jesus is the collective thought of God, the concerns and intrests of God, and he is interested in everybody's future.
I even personally think that Consciousness is the image of God, which in no manner could have created itself, or just evolved from nothing. These are some of the things that make God and reality so interesting to me; not knowing and wanting so bad to know; wanting to be more aware of God.
-
Humans are interested in religion, and people are explaining their religion and gaining converts. There is a missing link to God, but its being diverted and perverted by those who explain it. Hindusim grew by 237% lately, Sikitism by 338%, Baha'l by 200%, Native American religion by 119%, Buddhism by 170%, New Age by 240%, Deist grew by 717%, Islam by 109%; Universalist by 25%, and Christianity by 5%. Many people want answers, and God himself desires for them to get those answers, 1Tim.2:3-4 explains its good and acceptable in Gods sight and he personally desires that all humans be saved and " come to the knowledge of the truth." Its going to be a wonderful day when he sets that in full motion. I think its interesting what Paul said in 1Tim. 1:11, " According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, " With which I have been " Entrusted."
Interesting; so God trust you by revealing some truth to you, for what? To keep it to yourself? To keep it a club secret? This world is suffering because God has not been properly explained; religion has literally ruined the reputation of God. I once read a strange comment by an unknown writer; he said if the Kingdom of God is anything like these Christians, then its ruined already. Clear thinkers of the truth of God are so desperately needed. Yet many of them are not willing to explain God. Which I think is the 9th wonder of the world.
So many things can explain God; DNA. DNA shows patterns that could only have been created by Christ, by his intelligence , Col. 1:16, they in no manner could have been random. Science pushes this metamorphosis of the nothing, and some entrusted with the truth are saying nothing about it. But I understand that; I just wish it was not so. I could take 20 people from this website and have a handful of knowledge that could defeat an army of preachers that evangelize and mismanage the minds of so many believers.
-
Interesting; so God trust you by revealing some truth to you, for what? To keep it to yourself? To keep it a club secret? This world is suffering because God has not been properly explained; religion has literally ruined the reputation of God. I once read a strange comment by an unknown writer; he said if the Kingdom of God is anything like these Christians, then its ruined already. Clear thinkers of the truth of God are so desperately needed. Yet many of them are not willing to explain God. Which I think is the 9th wonder of the world.
Hi mickiel, but we do know that God is sovereign and therefore all things are exactly as His plan has preordained them to be... so do you think that God is "entrusting" the truth to a few so that could witness to the world and change the direction it is going?
I believe this age is going to remain the same that it has been from it's beginning, the human race is all carnal through and through, until we receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to obey and serve God and bare the fruit of that Spirit, and that Spirit is only being "entrusted" to a very few now.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
http://bible-truths.com/lake15-B.html ----------
"And we are His witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to them that OBEY Him" (Acts 5:32).
And so Romans 8:7 teaches us that we can’t obey God without His Spirit, and Acts 5:32 teaches us that God only gives His Spirit to those who do obey Him.
v
Man’s will is not free. Man has a will, but it is not free from the causes that make it do what it does.
v
Remember in Part A I showed you that it all starts in the HEART and mind, not in the will. Just start adding up all the Scriptural truths that we have learned and this whole thing of human will becomes very simple to understand.
"For from within, out of the HEART of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man" (Mark 7:21-23).
The HEART is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked [Hebrew: ‘exceeding weak’] who can know it" (Jer. 17:9).
"Because the carnal mind is enmity [hatred] against God: for it is NOT subject to the law of God, neither indeed CAN BE [neither is it ABLE]" (Rom. 8:7).
"Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? Then may ye also do good, that are accustomed [carnal-minded from our birth, as the nation of Israel was] to do evil" (Jer. 13:23).
"For it is God which works in you both TO WILL and TO DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).
"In Whom also we have OBTAINED an inheritance, being PREDESTINATED according to the PURPOSE of Him Who works ALL THINGS after the counsel of HIS OWN WILL" (Eph. 1:11).
There are FIVE "causes" listed in just this one sentence.
"For we are HIS WORKMANSHIP, [this is the cause an force behind our Christian walk. We are ‘His workmanship’ in action, not some presumed freedom of the will in action] created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has BEFORE ORDAINED that we should walk in them" (Eph. 2:10).
Etc., etc.
--------------------------------------------------------
Mat 11:27 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
Until the Holy Spirit comes in we/the world does not even know God, much less love and serve Him.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
-
Interesting; so God trust you by revealing some truth to you, for what? To keep it to yourself? To keep it a club secret? This world is suffering because God has not been properly explained; religion has literally ruined the reputation of God. I once read a strange comment by an unknown writer; he said if the Kingdom of God is anything like these Christians, then its ruined already. Clear thinkers of the truth of God are so desperately needed. Yet many of them are not willing to explain God. Which I think is the 9th wonder of the world.
Hi mickiel, but we do know that God is sovereign and therefore all things are exactly as His plan has preordained them to be... so do you think that God is "entrusting" the truth to a few so that could witness to the world and change the direction it is going?
I believe this age is going to remain the same that it has been from it's beginning, the human race is all carnal through and through, until we receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to obey and serve God and bare the fruit of that Spirit, and that Spirit is only being "entrusted" to a very few now.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
http://bible-truths.com/lake15-B.html ----------
"And we are His witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to them that OBEY Him" (Acts 5:32).
And so Romans 8:7 teaches us that we can’t obey God without His Spirit, and Acts 5:32 teaches us that God only gives His Spirit to those who do obey Him.
v
Man’s will is not free. Man has a will, but it is not free from the causes that make it do what it does.
v
Remember in Part A I showed you that it all starts in the HEART and mind, not in the will. Just start adding up all the Scriptural truths that we have learned and this whole thing of human will becomes very simple to understand.
"For from within, out of the HEART of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man" (Mark 7:21-23).
The HEART is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked [Hebrew: ‘exceeding weak’] who can know it" (Jer. 17:9).
"Because the carnal mind is enmity [hatred] against God: for it is NOT subject to the law of God, neither indeed CAN BE [neither is it ABLE]" (Rom. 8:7).
"Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? Then may ye also do good, that are accustomed [carnal-minded from our birth, as the nation of Israel was] to do evil" (Jer. 13:23).
"For it is God which works in you both TO WILL and TO DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).
"In Whom also we have OBTAINED an inheritance, being PREDESTINATED according to the PURPOSE of Him Who works ALL THINGS after the counsel of HIS OWN WILL" (Eph. 1:11).
There are FIVE "causes" listed in just this one sentence.
"For we are HIS WORKMANSHIP, [this is the cause an force behind our Christian walk. We are ‘His workmanship’ in action, not some presumed freedom of the will in action] created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has BEFORE ORDAINED that we should walk in them" (Eph. 2:10).
Etc., etc.
--------------------------------------------------------
Mat 11:27 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
Until the Holy Spirit comes in we/the world does not even know God, much less love and serve Him.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Well no Kat, not to " Change" the world, a witness does not need to change, only to inform; to deliver information; make announcements, counter this worldly mess with some strong truth! Some informative correction, and leave conversion to God. I am not advocating changing people, the Holy Spirit has that job, but I am saying that in my view, witnessing has gotten lost in some people of God, somehow along the way; and that to me is a weird kind of seductuion; to silence God's people, or keep them talking to just each other. The world needs God's people, and the demons would love to herd them into sections and keep them from the world. You can be in the world and not be part of it; good grief, we all live in the world anyway; we are not some kind of monks who live on an island.
What we know and understand, the world needs to know! What they do with that knowledge is not of our power; but I don't like this " Mute button" placed on some of God's people, and in my view, God didNOT push that button. I don't where we got that from. But its a shell I think we need to come out of.
-
mickiel, I understand what you are saying... what I am saying is everything is exactly like the sovereign God wants it to just like it is. If there needed to be more witnessing from God's people He would have inspired that in them, they bare the fruit of His Spirit, so His Spirit would have brought it about.
I am not against witnessing, but neither am I really for it, God's will is done in whatever takes place. That's all I'm saying.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
-
mickiel, I understand what you are saying... what I am saying is everything is exactly like the sovereign God wants it to just like it is. If there needed to be more witnessing from God's people He would have inspired that in them, they bare the fruit of His Spirit, so His Spirit would have brought it about.
I am not against witnessing, but neither am I really for it, God's will is done in whatever takes place. That's all I'm saying.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Well I certainly understand you; I am for it myself. Ray did it, Jesus did it, all the Prophets did it, the diciples did it, all men or women called by God in the bible did it, I see nowhere in scripture where it says not to do it; I see no command from Christ or God not to do it; and if those moderday people called by God won't do it, I am sure Christ will make the rocks do it. Or the trees; or the animals. I don't agree that God is " Not inspiring his people to do it", I think they have been seduced into not doing it, for many deep reasons. One of the ways the Spirit helps people, is through other people. Or it can appeal to them directly; either way, but I think both ways are needed. Both ways are Godly. When God popped the truth into my head, he used both ways.
I don't want to see either way subtracted.
-
Gee, almost sounds like maybe if we all had free will, we would all live forever because there would be no evil,!! on a planet with 500 billion other beasts, we would all love each other, we would have no choice. I think i will just stay here. Ricky
-
Gee, almost sounds like maybe if we all had free will, we would all live forever because there would be no evil,!! on a planet with 500 billion other beasts, we would all love each other, we would have no choice. I think i will just stay here. Ricky
All loving each other would be a wonderful thing for sure; I don't believe in free will, but I do believe in limited will. And I believe in witnessing; I guess that is obvious now. You know some people tell everyone bad news, but they won't tell everyone good news. It takes time to change negative thinking; and some believers just have a negative view of witnessing. They think its worldly. One of Jesus names is " The True Witness", Rev. 3:14. One of the reasons Jesus was born and came into this world was to bear witness to the truth, John 18:37. On a planet with a billion people, he did not concern himself with who would listen. Even the Father God is a witness, John 8:18. Paul was a Witness, Acts 26:22. The scripture itself is a witness, John 5:39, the Holy Spirit is a witness, John 15:26; every book and letter written in the bible is a witness, and its author was a witness; so the word" witness" is not some kind of negative worldly term or act.
Your witness is your " Work." Ray did an awesome work, or witness. He did a work for God. Anybody who looks to help others on this website, is doing a " Work", or a witness for God. Your work is your witness; what you do for God is your work, and faith without works is dead, James 2:26. We are Gods work, created in Christ for " Good Works", Eph. 2:10, or for a good witness. Jesus said in John 14:12 that Truly, he who believes in me , the " Works" that I do, HE SHALL DO ALSO; a very large part of Jesus work was to witness, absolutely no doubt about it; witness, not just answer questions when asked! The scripture talks about receiving power to be a witness all over the place, Acts 1:8.
One of the ways to explain God, is to testify about him; talk about him. I mean, one does not have to be like a Jehovah's Witness and start going door to door, that's extreme, but to be silent is just as extreme. All these examples of witnessing in the bible, and look at how Satan has tried to squeeze it out of some true believers. Its amazing how demons attack the work of God. Try to deaden it in any way they can. They don't want truth explained. They don't want God explained, and will target those carriers of the truth , to silence them.
-
[quote author=John from Kentucky
Here is my Witness to you. You are full of spiritual crap.
You say you believe in limited will, which means you believe in free will.
Free will is one of those things like being pregnant. You have or you don't, you are or not.
If you have limited free will, then that means God is not completely sovereign in your life. You can use your limited free will to oppose God. That puts you in charge. Get it?
Before you witness or teach others, make sure you know what you're talking about.
It is all about Jesus. He is Antipas, the Faithful Witness. He and He Alone.
[/quote]
I am not full of anything spiritual, I do not have the Spirit of God inside me perminently; I don't make that claim. I do not believe in free will, no matter if you believe that or not. You do not define me. I believe humans do have a limited range of will, and even that is not free, but its there. Its like being placed inside of a fenched in yard and told you can play anywhere within that yard, but you cannot go outside of that yard. Humanity is in a fenched in yard that God has designed, and they can only go so far; and then no further. But there is a little room to move around on their own. Such is my view.
And I hold no intrest in teaching; I just like sharing. It is unfortunate that you do not like what I share.
Peace.
-
Mikiel, let me give you some other reasons why some wouldn't want to "Witness" (notice the quotation marks).
1. Some people don't want to hear. I actually understand this. I don't hold anything of great value to be "true" that wasn't preceded by pain. Someone not in "pain" has no need for a antidote. If they are fat, dumb and happy with the way they think, then the Lord God has not begun to deal with them. Mat 7:7,8 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
2. Some people only want to argue. It's a fleshly desire that craves to be filled. Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
3. Some find themselves unable to "teach". This TOO is Scriptural. Are all teachers, or evangelists, or missionaries?
1Co 12:18 Yet now God placed the members, each one of them, in the body according as He wills. "
1Co 12:19 Now if it were all one member, where were the body?
1Co 12:20 Yet now there are, indeed, many members, yet one body."
1Co 12:21 Yet the eye can not say to the hand, "I have no need of you,or, again, the head to the feet, "I have no need of you."
1Co 12:22 Nay, much rather, those members of the body supposed to be inherently weaker are necessary,
1Co 12:23 and which we suppose to be a more dishonored part of the body, these we are investing with more exceeding honor, and our indecent members have more exceeding respectability."
1Co 12:24 Now our respectable members have no need, but God blends the body together, giving to that which is deficient more exceeding honor,
1Co 12:25 that there may be no schism in the body, but the members may be solicitous for one another."
1Co 12:26 And whether one member is suffering, all the members are sympathizing, or one member is being esteemed, all the members are rejoicing with it."
1Co 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members of a part,
1Co 12:28 whom also God, indeed, placed in the ecclesia, first, apostles, second, prophets, third, teachers, thereupon powers, thereupon graces of healing, supports, pilotage, species of languages."
1Co 12:29 Not all are apostles. Not all are prophets. Not all are teachers. Not all have powers.
1Co 12:30 Not all have the graces of healing. Not all are speaking languages. Not all are interpreting.
1Co 12:31 Yet be zealous for the greater graces. And still I am showing you a path, suited to transcendence."
Please be careful attributing the work of God to demons. I hope that wasn't your intent.
In addition, there are warnings and admonitions given in Scripture explicitly to and about 'teachers'. Some take greater care with these than others.
Now, I hope that few or none of us are guilty of the "flip side"--without any real experience with "truth", or loving an argument for the sake of the carnal thrill of arguing, or assuming ourselves to be something we are not. But I'll tell you a secret--it wasn't the forum (this or any other) that caused me to believe. Ray didn't meet me where I was (on the internet) short of a google ad. And I didn't come to 'ask, seek, knock" but to "murder".
I know beyond any shadow of un-knowing that Faith is a Gift. Yes, it comes by hearing and we can't hear without a "preacher". But there are both some I might wish would preach, and others I wish would refrain from preaching--at least for now. There are plenty who would take on the whole world, ready and able or not...but who wouldn't do anything to aide one who was ready and able. The fields are already ripe, but the workers are few. All is of God. Jesus is Lord.
-
Mikiel, let me give you some other reasons why some wouldn't want to "Witness" (notice the quotation marks).
1. Some people don't want to hear. I actually understand this. I don't hold anything of great value to be "true" that wasn't preceded by pain. Someone not in "pain" has no need for a antidote. If they are fat, dumb and happy with the way they think, then the Lord God has not begun to deal with them. Mat 7:7,8 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
2. Some people only want to argue. It's a fleshly desire that craves to be filled. Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
3. Some find themselves unable to "teach". This TOO is Scriptural. Are all teachers, or evangelists, or missionaries?
1Co 12:18 Yet now God placed the members, each one of them, in the body according as He wills. "
1Co 12:19 Now if it were all one member, where were the body?
1Co 12:20 Yet now there are, indeed, many members, yet one body."
1Co 12:21 Yet the eye can not say to the hand, "I have no need of you,or, again, the head to the feet, "I have no need of you."
1Co 12:22 Nay, much rather, those members of the body supposed to be inherently weaker are necessary,
1Co 12:23 and which we suppose to be a more dishonored part of the body, these we are investing with more exceeding honor, and our indecent members have more exceeding respectability."
1Co 12:24 Now our respectable members have no need, but God blends the body together, giving to that which is deficient more exceeding honor,
1Co 12:25 that there may be no schism in the body, but the members may be solicitous for one another."
1Co 12:26 And whether one member is suffering, all the members are sympathizing, or one member is being esteemed, all the members are rejoicing with it."
1Co 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members of a part,
1Co 12:28 whom also God, indeed, placed in the ecclesia, first, apostles, second, prophets, third, teachers, thereupon powers, thereupon graces of healing, supports, pilotage, species of languages."
1Co 12:29 Not all are apostles. Not all are prophets. Not all are teachers. Not all have powers.
1Co 12:30 Not all have the graces of healing. Not all are speaking languages. Not all are interpreting.
1Co 12:31 Yet be zealous for the greater graces. And still I am showing you a path, suited to transcendence."
Please be careful attributing the work of God to demons. I hope that wasn't your intent.
In addition, there are warnings and admonitions given in Scripture explicitly to and about 'teachers'. Some take greater care with these than others.
Now, I hope that few or none of us are guilty of the "flip side"--without any real experience with "truth", or loving an argument for the sake of the carnal thrill of arguing, or assuming ourselves to be something we are not. But I'll tell you a secret--it wasn't the forum (this or any other) that caused me to believe. Ray didn't meet me where I was (on the internet) short of a google ad. And I didn't come to 'ask, seek, knock" but to "murder".
I know beyond any shadow of un-knowing that Faith is a Gift. Yes, it comes by hearing and we can't hear without a "preacher". But there are both some I might wish would preach, and others I wish would refrain from preaching--at least for now. There are plenty who would take on the whole world, ready and able or not...but who wouldn't do anything to aide one who was ready and able. The fields are already ripe, but the workers are few. All is of God. Jesus is Lord.
I do understand the " Reasons" why some do not want to witness, or just witness in confined situations they are comfortable with; I understand that. And I certainly agree that the fields are ripe but the workers are few; I just happen to believe that part of the " Work", is witnessing. Jesus did not baptise anybody, and I don't think he tried to convert people that much; he just gave his witness of God and the comming Kingdom. He liked witnessing, and so do I. Does not matter to me why people don't like doing it; I do it. And I don't do it based on what other believers are saying and doing; I do it because I believe in it. I think its biblical, its God's will, its a way to spread the truth; and this gospel of the Kingdom will be spread all over this world, no matter who participates in it. No matter who thinks of reasons not to spread it.
-
You have my permission to continue. But don't dare tell me or anybody else that Scripture makes all of us the same and that if we are not doing as you do, we are doing the devil's work.
Believe me, there is a christian somewhere wringing his hands over YOU for not going door to door.
-
mickiel, this excerpt is from the article on 'WINNING SOULS FOR JESUS?'
http://bible-truths.com/souls.htm ---------------
LIGHT AND SALT DON’T ARGUE OR MAKE NOISE
"Ye are the salt of the earth… Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid… Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father which is in heaven" (Matt. 5:1,14,16).
Salt does not make any noise, and light does not argue Scriptures. Neither salt nor light makes any sound whatsoever. Maybe there is a lesson in there.
Too many people learn a few truths of God and think that they are ready to take on the world. They usually start by trying to embarrass their Pastor with their new-gained knowledge. Usually they fall flat on their face on the very first try. It’s all about motivation. If your motivation is carnal, God will not back you. Yes, I know, all of you are saying: "But my motivation is to show them God’s truths." Yes, sure, I understand, but THEY DON’T WANT TO HEAR GOD’S TRUTHS, and you already know this, so what is your point? Leave them alone and let them taste your salt and see your light and admire your good works, and perchance they will even praise God for your new-found humility,
You will never argue anyone into accepting the truths of God’s Word. As salesmen are often taught: "You might win the argument, but loose the sale," so don’t argue. And this: "He who is persuaded against his will; is of the same opinion still."
I receive a lot of emails from people who beg me to come to their rescue because they are about to have a second session with their pastor or friend, but have failed miserably on the first go-round. Now they want me to give them the ammunition they need to do a slam-dunk on their second attempt to embarrass their pastor or friend. Give it up—that attitude is wrong. Such a carnal exhibition of prideful flesh is akin to someone looking for a street fight merely because he has just acquired a black belt in karate.
HOW TO DEMONSTRATE YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH
I personally know a man who has his little wife working two jobs to support their family so that he can study the Scriptures and enter into doctrinal debates with other Christians at the local Cafe as a perpetual hobby. Notice the admonition of the Apostle Peter:
"Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; having your conversation [Gk: ‘conduct’] honest [Gk: ‘honorable’] among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may BY YOUR GOOD WORKS, [Not your clever Bible arguments], which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation" (I Pet. 2:11-12).
Your good works and righteous character will pay dividends to others eventually—if not in this life, then in the Judgment.
------------------------------------------------------
mercy, peace and love
Kat
-
You have my permission to continue. But don't dare tell me or anybody else that Scripture makes all of us the same and that if we are not doing as you do, we are doing the devil's work.
Believe me, there is a christian somewhere wringing his hands over YOU for not going door to door.
Oh I would not dare say something like that, because it would not be true. I simply said to each his own. I judge no one. I observe what I observe. I do what I do. I just believe that the devil does work; and God works; and I think part of the " Work" of God, is witnessing. And when the salt has lost its savor or flavor, it does not " Work."
And I know there are Christians wringing their hands over me not going door to door; I don't do that; but I have told many of my neighbors about God, many of my Aunts and Uncles; many of my friends and many of my enemies. Some people know this truth and won't even do that. Live next to someone for 20 years and not tell them about God. I have went website to website for years, I guess they are a type of " Door." We do whats in our hearts.
I'll do whats in my heart, and I don't mind doing it. I don't mind explaining how God exist , to anybody.
-
mickiel, this excerpt is from the article on 'WINNING SOULS FOR JESUS?'
http://bible-truths.com/souls.htm ---------------
LIGHT AND SALT DON’T ARGUE OR MAKE NOISE
"Ye are the salt of the earth… Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid… Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father which is in heaven" (Matt. 5:1,14,16).
Salt does not make any noise, and light does not argue Scriptures. Neither salt nor light makes any sound whatsoever. Maybe there is a lesson in there.
Kat
Well I think there is a lesson in that scripture; again one key word that stands out to me is " Works." What is works? Does it mean " Working on yourself"; and people see how " Good you work on yourself?' Is the light shinning on yourself? And they see it and then are impressed with you? While you say nothing to them??? Make no sound whatsoever? Well I think the character God gives to a person, is then their persona, which can indeed shine like a light and just be recognized. Thats one way to look at that; and another is " Works." Works can be witnessing, just no doubt about it; telling others the good news of their salvation. People can see you working on this message and glorify God for his purpose, and be real glad that this eternal hell suffering is not the real deal. Its worth telling people that.
I was on an Atheist site last month and just popped it out on a thread. Some of them were relieved to hear such an unusual version of the bible explained; and liked it. Could actually almost see the real Mercy and Grace of God. They could almost see the Light; and that will forever be a witness to them. Not so much as me being such a light, but a light was shown to them. Perhaps turned on and then back off; but a light nonetheless. And I did not argue with them. But many of them were upset. So do you stop working because others get upset? Because they don't believe? Because they are not called? No, keep working. Keep pushing out that news.
-
Mickiel, Why do you keep arguing?? Nobody says you are wrong for witnessing, talking to people, being a light etc. But you seem to be wanting others to be like you. Why? It almost seems like witnessing is an idol of your heart.
Witnessing is not wrong if God is leading you to do this, it is not wrong if He is not leading somebody else to do the same. It seems like you are looking for afirmation, if so you have it. Just don't tell others it is required by them, when you do this you are attempting to put a yoke around their neck, not unlike every other religion out there. The good news is God is in control and molding us into His image, be ready to let Him lead and understand your road may be different than mine, your gifts may be different; but in the end we all come out perfected.
Craig
-
Mickiel, Why do you keep arguing?? Nobody says you are wrong for witnessing, talking to people, being a light etc. But you seem to be wanting others to be like you. Why? It almost seems like witnessing is an idol of your heart.
Witnessing is not wrong if God is leading you to do this, it is not wrong if He is not leading somebody else to do the same. It seems like you are looking for afirmation, if so you have it. Just don't tell others it is required by them, when you do this you are attempting to put a yoke around their neck, not unlike every other religion out there. The good news is God is in control and molding us into His image, be ready to let Him lead and understand your road may be different than mine, your gifts may be different; but in the end we all come out perfected.
Craig
I am not arguing. I have not been disrespectful, and I have not told anyone its required. Where have I done these things? I am simply explaining what I believe. It may seem like its an idol, only because I strongly believe those things I believe. I feel just as strong about Universal Salvation, and any other biblical truth I see.
-
I've never heard or read that atheists claim that "all this" came out of nothing. They quote chemistry which teaches that matter is neither created nor destroyed. Isn't this what we see happening in the universe? Burn a piece of paper. Where does it go? Did you annihilate the piece of paper by burning it? I think not.
To demand proof of God is for the spiritually dead. But we have been given the faith to believe God's existence. It is of God that you have the chance to speak with atheists.
Interesting to think that the Christian church is the one to witness. Could it be that's the reason the arm of The Lord is hard at work in their midst healing the sick, casting out evil spirits, etc, etc? I have seen my share of healings and casting out of evil spirits.
Have you read the testimonies of the persecuted Christians in China? Read of the miracles that God has worked in their midst?
They don't quote chemistry books.
The current scientific understanding of the Big Bang is that everything started from one point, a singularity. Nothing prior to that.
Either God did the Bang. Or the Bang banged itself, which is foolishness.
Also, God is not at work in the Great False Christian Church, either in China or elsewhere in the world.
The Great False Church is ruled by there father, Satan, who appears as an angel of light and does the works among them, whom he rules over.
The Elect are not deceived by this majority church, nor the so called works they do.
So I was healed of hepatitis by satan? And when I was possessed by an evil spirit, another spirit cast out the one possessing me? I wonder if ANY elect has prayed for someone's healing and witnessed a miracle. And i mean a modern times elect. Because Paul certainly cast out evil spirits and performed healings by the power of God. I wonder now about the signs to follow those who believe in the Lord's name. What would you do if you ever faced a demoniac? Probably nothing maybe. And by "you" and mean all that think you just should stand on the sidelines and do nothing--powerless.
-
I am not arguing.
Sorry then, wrong choice of words. Why then do you feel you need to keep defending yourself? Nobody says you are wrong, you have nothing to defend; perhaps the spirit in you is not as sure of things as you think you are?
Craig
-
I am not arguing.
Sorry then, wrong choice of words. Why then do you feel you need to keep defending yourself? Nobody says you are wrong, you have nothing to defend; perhaps the spirit in you is not as sure of things as you think you are?
Craig
There are some things that I am more sure of than others; and I do not have the Spirit of God; not yet. I would like to have it.
I am not defending myself, I am explaining myself. And I believe that God can be explained; how he exist. We can use Proteins to explain how he exist; they never form except in already living cells; so they cannot be created in a lab. Scientist cannot make DNA in a lab. Proteins must fold perfectly; and then they turn on and off. If a first living cell had formed without a creator, the cell would still have had to replace each of its proteins as soon as it wore out. If the cell did not contain the information to correctly turn on and off the production of the replacement proteins, the cell would have died as soon as the first protein wore out. Stunning evidence of a creator who knows how to turn them off.
-
In explaining how God exist, one will go against many perverted scientific theory's that fight against Gods reality. Like the " Chimp Argument. Chimps and humans have 95-96% the same DNA; there is about a 2% difference. A human has 3 billion letters ( base papers). So what is a 2% difference out of 3 billion? Well it would be 60 million differences. In order for humans to have evolved from chimps, that chimp or ape like creature would have to go through 60 million changes to their DNA to get to where its a human being. The DNA would have to evolve 60 million times; go through 60 million improvements. The way Christ created things, he used some of the " Same substances" in his creation of different creatures. Whales and Dolphins closet living relatives are Hippo's. The Bears closet relative are Seals, Sea Lions and Walruses. The Donkeys closet living relative are Rhino's; so we see Jesus really mixing things up in his creative imagination, but using some of the same cells on different creatures. Which is one reason why science thinks we all came from the same cells.
Humans and Mushrooms have much in common. 64% of human genes match Horses. 35% has a likeness with grain. Some data shows we have things in common with a mouse, Fruit flys and even Yeast. This really shows support for an imaginative creating mind that did not waste materials. Which is why I said before that Proteins are a great proof of God, not one of the main ingredients of Cells, Proteins, cell membranes, RNA, DNA or information will form in nature except in already living cells. If one part could have formed, it would have been broken down while it was waiting for the others. All would have to have come about at almost the exact same time and location and immediately teamed up to form likeness; figure the odds of that! But some science would rather give life those incredible odds, than give the credit to God.
Not one step in the evolution of chemicals to a first cell is scientifically possible.
The mind of Christ must be incredible, as he indulged himself in creation. Just look at what he did to cells; when a cell has made a new protein, while its still moving into place, it folds into the exact shape which will allow it to connect with the proteins next to it; don't let anyone tell you this is not proof of God. To make proteins, " Ribosomes" connect Amino Acids into long strings. These strings loop and fold around each other in a " Perfect Fit." Just academic evidence of a creative mind at work; a designer for sure. They then fold into a highly complex three dimensional shape that then determines their function.
And this helps in explaining how God exist.
-
Goodbye bible-truths, I wish you well on your journey. I think Kat is right, I am not of like mind with many here; no need in being a disruption.
Peace to you all.