Why we pray

[daywalker]

Hello,

just wanted to share some thoughts I had recently while pondering the "why pray" question which seems to be in the top 3 of first questions people ask when discovering they have no free will. I know Ray has received hundreds of emails from people asking him why we should pray if God is in control of everything?

...But after meditating on this for a bit, I came to the conclusion that this question really SHOULD be directed to those who DO believe in free will.

IF we truly did have a free will, and if we truly were in total control of our own lives, our own choices and our own destiny, then WHY would we pray to God? If God truly were not capable of "interfering" in our lives against our will, or against anyone's will, then why pray? Why pray to a God who can only sit and watch us as we go about our lives?

BUT we do NOT have free will, because He alone is in control, and therefore we are subject to His Plan and His Will--and this is the reason why we do pray to God.


Daywalker 

[EKnight]

  Good Point 

Eileen

[Kat]

Hi Daywalker,

Yeah try and get them to explain that, but then again they are used to explaining things in contradicts of terms. Like Ray says... "Christendom is a religion of contradictions and square circles." And they love to have it so.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[gmik]

Well, the Bible tells us to pray.  I know Ray has said that perhaps our praying was part of His Will for the answer. (if I butchered Rays' words, please help, Kat  )

I think praying sometimes helps US, it  soothes our soul,  to feel we are fellowshipping w/ our Saviour---not to change God's will or just to get an answer. sometimes I use it more like "self talk".

Jesus prayed too, and He is a pretty good role model!!

[daywalker]

John: Great addition! Everything starts and ends with God, including prayer. Just like a circle, huh? 

Kat: As usual, Ray nails it! You know it amazes me how I couldn't see that back in Babylon. I wish I had audio of some of the conversations I had with people whether in church or not, to hear what nonsense I used to say and think I was so smart when I said it... Lol

Gmik: Amen! If we knew the President of the United States personally, I would imagine we'd want to communicate with him often, as citizens of this country, to keep 'in the loop' of what's going on... How much more should we keep in contact with the "President" of the Universe? [FTR... I believe Ray uses the same [similar] analogy somewhere...] 


Daywalker 

[Deborah-Leigh]

That's why I get excited when I feel inspired to pray, as I am encouraged that God is ready to bless or favor me in some way. L Ray Smith PRAYING BY GODS RULES

Arc

[grapehound]

In Babylon I thought it was just my own good idea to pray and it was nothing more than a wish list.  Since seeing it God's way through Ray's teaching,  It turns the whole subject on it's head !

Great post Daywalker.
I think it was Sigmund Freud that suggested that the 'truth is often the truth standing on it's head' !

Realising that we're inspired of God to pray, has really taken the  "pressure" off me ! (For want of a better word)

It seems Babylon isn't happy unless it's a burden.
I really identify with Ray's example given above.
To know that we're called to pray is like .......answering the phone.!

I could never get into this culture of setting aside particular times, like a rite or ceremony, I used to talk to God all day long and thought it was wrong.
What a blessing it was to hear Ray saying that was his way !
Just one of the mental prisons God has taken us out of, through this blessed ministry.

Muchest Luv
Grape

[judith collier]

Arc, you said it well! I always looked at prayer as a meeting of the minds but for the life of me couldn't put it into a sentence that would make sense. People thought i was an air head. Too far out for them. I mean, 'meeting God in Spirit and seemingly knowing what to pray' I always knew something was coming, at least something different because i prayed. Egotistical they said. Whatever i said!
Judy

[SDDiver]

Seems we're in good company so to speak. The apostles were confused about this, too, and Jesus taught them several valuable lessons concerning prayer (see Luke 11:1-13):

He taught them priority:

He said to them, "When you pray, say: Father, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, give us each day our daily bread. Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us. And lead us not into temptation." (Luke 11:2-4 NIV)

And that persistence pays off:

Then he said to them, "Suppose one of you has a friend, and he goes to him at midnight and says, 'Friend, lend me three loaves of bread, because a friend of mine on a journey has come to me, and I have nothing to set before him.'

"Then the one inside answers, 'Don't bother me. The door is already locked, and my children are with me in bed. I can't get up and give you anything.' I tell you, though he will not get up and give him the bread because he is his friend, yet BECAUSE OF THE MAN'S BOLDNESS HE WILL GET UP AND GIVE HIM AS MUCH AS HE NEEDS."

"So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened." (Luke 11:5-10 NIV)

And that answers to our prayers, though physical outwardly, are always ultimately spiritual:

"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven GIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT TO THOSE WHO ASK HIM!" (Luke 11:11-13 NIV)

This, to me, explains how and why we pray. Although, the persitence lesson is still somewhat of a mystery to me.

[SDDiver]

Arc, you said it well! I always looked at prayer as a meeting of the minds but for the life of me couldn't put it into a sentence that would make sense. People thought i was an air head. Too far out for them. I mean, 'meeting God in Spirit and seemingly knowing what to pray' I always knew something was coming, at least something different because i prayed. Egotistical they said. Whatever i said!
Judy

Yeah ... for years, prayer was a group event. At church service (with 2000 visitors), we would be called to form small groups of 3 or 4 and then pray out loud for certain things. It always made me feel uncomfortable because some people were able to just go on and on for several minutes and all I could say was thanks God for this and that "in Jesus name I pray amen" (the magic formula you must say at the end of every prayer). My prayers were over in a matter of seconds. Made me feel a bit inferior to the "real" prayer warriors. Yup, those were the days.

[Deborah-Leigh]

the persitence lesson is still somewhat of a mystery to me.

...not to stop and start, stop and start or pick times for speaking to God...no...being mindful of God always present so as to ceaselessly be mindful of His Presence and never leaving, coming or going, stopping and starting.... being ever in His company...

1Th 5:17  Pray without ceasing.  

Blessings brother

Arc

[judith collier]

 I do pray thy will be done but also remember all the things Jesus did on earth so I figure if healing was done on earth then i could pray that too. But some of the time when i pray, I am the answer. Let me explain. "Dear God, please help my friend, she is not doing good and she needs some help" So, if it is something i can help her with then through prayer it was brought to my mind to do it. Sometimes I do not even pray over these things i just do it. If a person knows the love of God then there is a natural response. I also know though that busyness is not what God desires of us all the time and this too can become an ego thing. One does have to know themselves and use caution. I am the type that i will move quickly and sometimes that is not what to do. I have to really watch it. Boy, if anyone can get ahead of God it is me!
Judy

[GaryK]

the persitence lesson is still somewhat of a mystery to me.

...not to stop and start, stop and start or pick times for speaking to God...no...being mindful of God always present so as to ceaselessly be mindful of His Presence and never leaving, coming or going, stopping and starting.... being ever in His company...

1Th 5:17  Pray without ceasing.  

Blessings brother

Arc

Very good, indeed, Arcturus.

I remember the first time I read Ray's 'Praying By God's Rules' and how awestruck I was at these particular humble statements by Ray:


"Periodically I thank God for everything I have—I mean everything. Including the many things that most people take for granted. You have heard of counting sheep to fall asleep? Well I fall asleep many nights thanking God for all of my blessings. I start where I am—on my comfortable mattress and pillow, next to my wife, in an air-conditioned room.

You heard me right, I start by tanking God for my pillow and my comfortable bed. How many people in the history of the world have ever had a bed as comfortable as mine? Not even one percent. I thank God for my wife lying next to me. I thank God for my children. I thank God for our great little feline companions. I thank God for air conditioning in the summer and central heating in the winter. I thank God for our home, my office, our large living room for Bible Studies, our television that enables me to see the major news events of the world instantly, and documentaries (I watch a fair amount of the Science Channel, National Geographic, the History Channel, etc.).
I thank God especially for our refrigerator. Do you have any idea how much kings and queens of the past would have given for a refrigerator? And add to that, a plethora of fresh fruits, vegetables, juices, and ice cold water. I never take my refrigerator or all that is in it, for granted. I thank God for indoor plumbing. Most of the world does not have indoor plumbing or even good drinking water. How many in the world drink warm, muddy water? How blessed we are.

http://bible-truths.com/praying.htm


"If you always pray, "not as I will, but as THOU will," all of your prayers will be answered too. Whether you always get what you desire or you don't get what you desire, if your greatest desire of all desires is for "THY WILL be done," then you can rest assured that from this day forward, all of your prayers will be answered always. God's will (that is His intention for the way He has preordained everything to go), will always be done. No prayer has ever changed God's plan or purpose in any way whatsoever. (Read my series on "free will")."

http://bible-truths.com/praying.htm

Those particular words were a needed dose of reality from the lord to calm this anxious heart and learn a hard lesson that I am not in control, as once strongly believed.   Since that time, although I fail more often than not, remembering to give thanks for all things, good things.....and those which I may question not seeing clearly his reason(s), knowing although, all comes from him and for his purpose.

gk

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi GaryK

Yes, those are very beautiful insights of  humble God revering prayers of faith that Ray shares with us.

God never leaves or forsakes us.

Arc

[judith collier]

I just remembered the Holy spirit prays for us with sighs, etc. So, when I sigh I thank God that those things I cannot put into words are being prayed for. Judy

[santikos]

it's an enigma as to why God wants up to pray. But i have kids and i like them to speak to me just as God would like me to speak to him. I think if we pray according to his will we can live life knowing that tomorrow is in his hands.

[Cypress]

Hello,

just wanted to share some thoughts I had recently while pondering the "why pray" question which seems to be in the top 3 of first questions people ask when discovering they have no free will. I know Ray has received hundreds of emails from people asking him why we should pray if God is in control of everything?

...But after meditating on this for a bit, I came to the conclusion that this question really SHOULD be directed to those who DO believe in free will.

IF we truly did have a free will, and if we truly were in total control of our own lives, our own choices and our own destiny, then WHY would we pray to God? If God truly were not capable of "interfering" in our lives against our will, or against anyone's will, then why pray? Why pray to a God who can only sit and watch us as we go about our lives?

BUT we do NOT have free will, because He alone is in control, and therefore we are subject to His Plan and His Will--and this is the reason why we do pray to God.


Daywalker 

That's a very interesting thought! I have heard the "why should we bother to pray" thing before. Why wouldn't you want to talk to God? I can't control you, but I still want to be friends and talk to you.  Should I talk to you only when I want something...or not even bother because you'll do whatever you want anyway? Hmmm.