With God all things are possible

[Duane]

We have to believe this!  I am going to poise a problem, choosing this Board as most appropriate.
My friend, who inicidently turned my life snf belieg system around by introducing me to this web-site,
has a very REAL problem. 
In a nutshell, his "Christian wife" divorced him for another "Christian man", whom she later married.
He prayed and fasted and went to Christian "extremes", fully convinced that God would return her to him.
It didn't happen.  God said "it is better to marry-than to "burn".  Well, he got MARRIED AND HE GOT
BURNED!  Now she is remarried so he is free to remarry and longs for the intimacy and companionship.

Before being involved with this web-site and it's teachings, he made several attempts through church singles groups and Christian web-sites to find a future wife to fulfill his desire to be married.

Now--THE PROBLEM!  He not only desires to marry a Christian God-fearing woman BUT NOW when he
meets a woman who appears to "love the Lord and share Christian VALUES"---as soon as he INTRODUCES
HER TO HIS NEW FOUND BELIEFS (OURS) --she runs from "the infidel-with the promise to pray for him"!

How, pray tell, do you find a woman who believes as we and Ray do??

[mharrell08]

How, pray tell, do you find a woman who believes as we and Ray do??

Probably won't be able to...to me, it would be much simpler to find someone who respects what you believe. To agree should not be the primary concern, just someone who is mature enough to respect there is a difference in beliefs and be fine with that. One doesn't have to have the exact same beliefs as a mate to marry them.

[GaryK]

How, pray tell, do you find a woman who believes as we and Ray do??

Marques has given the only wise answer.


John is waxing poetic and speaks a parable of the impossible. 


But I, I have the ONLY possible alternative solution for your friend:


The BTForum Infidel Singles Club

Aside from that, review the answer from Marques.

gk

[GaryK]

How, pray tell, do you find a woman who believes as we and Ray do??

Impossible?  I don't think so gk.  Dolly Parton fulfills that scripture quite nicely, although I don't know if she is converted.

I wasn't trying to be poetic, just funny.  I went back to my post and entered an emoticon    just in case someone has a humor I.Q. deficit.

Dear John:

I checked with my people and have been informed there is absolutely no chance of an 'humor IQ deficit' here. 

Can't speak for others.

Nonetheless, I'll see your emoticon.......................and raise you 5.



Is there a limit?

gk

[judith collier]

Janine, sharing is not enough for men! And true to their nature Dolly comes out on top!  judy

[Joel]

I can't think of a single case in the Bible, where a man and a woman got together for better, or for worse on their own accord. I am a strong believer that all matches were arranged by God, in the mind of God, long before we ever came into existence. 

Joel

[Duane]

I am sure glad that God arranged my second marriage after my first.  I sure learned lot from my first marriage and subseqent relationships
that make my pesent relationship of now 20 years a more blissful experience.  A person changes so much over a lifetime that it seems that life should be lived in sections.  I can't find any scriptures for that so I have to assume that it is MY reasoning that is faulty.
I see so many people that are looking for marital mates, then I see so many marital mates that WISH THEY WERE LOOKING!
Ny wife and I have had a lot of fun over the years with the fact that every 5 years, I have to write up a MARRIAGE CONTACT that she has to SIGN to state that she desires to "re-up"  for the next 5 years!
Once we were in a store that we frequent often, so the staff kind of "knows us".  Out of the blue, I said in a loud voice that all patrons could hear, "I am asking my wife to re-sign our 5 year MARRIAGE CONTRACT and I want you all to be witnesses.  I had it all written in
poetic form and read the whole thing ALOUD and LOUD!  All the staff and customers stopped what they were doing and listened.  My wife then took a pen and re-signed the contact and everyone CLAPPED and all signed the document as "witnesses".  We had no idea who the witnesses were!
The manager of the store then took the document and made a copy, framed it and it now hangs in his office! 

[lilitalienboi16]

Marriage? Meh, I don't know bout you guys but I'm just to find a cute girly then take it from there! Of course I'm very picky, and I already have a crush on this one girl but she lives so far away and Lord only knows if she's crushin back on me. Eh w/e, a man can dream right? Gah I so wish I had one chance with her!! xD

[Roy Martin]

I know all too well where this guy is, and how he feels. I was wanting and looking so hard that it had my judgment distorted and was keeping me from concentrating on God; so I had a talk with God and told Him just how I felt of how I couldn't keep my mind on Him from being lonely. I said God, " I don't know that I should be asking, but you know good and well how I feel and whether I should be asking, but will you please give me a woman, this is my first time to ask, and I don't trust my judgment to know the right woman. I always mess up in some way.
Thirty minutes later I saw her and we married 9 days later. That was 5 years ago and we're still going strong.
We will never find what is right for us, but God will.
Peace

[Duane]

Roy...Well?  Don't leave us hangin'.  What happened?  Did you rear-end her with your car?
What did her/your parents think of your spontaneous decisions/action?

My nephew was playing a "pick-up" game of basketball at a Christian college he often went to play basketball at with the guys.  He dribbled down the court and lost control of the ball and it went out of bounds right in front of a group of girl students who were watching the game.
My nephew looked up and saw a girl in the group and said "someday I'm going to marry you"!
He looked her up after the game. He DID marry her.  Two beautiful kids and 20 years later they are as happy as can be.  Home-schooled the kids and they are taking college courses while still in high school. 
God works in strange ways!

[Cypress]

Heh, you can send a message to a girl in this forum and get married that way  .

[acomplishedartis]

First. I am still single.

But

I don't think that 'only respect of beliefs'  should be enough for me.


Because ''It is ALL connected'' !




UNEQUALLY YOKED   by L.Ray Smith

The phrase "unequally yoked together" is not a phrase that signifies a "marriage." Nonetheless, in principle it certainly applies to marriage.

First, let's read the entire Scripture:

    "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? For ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, says the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive, and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty" (II Cor. 6:14-18).

The phrase "unequally yoked together" is the translation of just one Greek word, heterozugeo, which is a compound word that means, "to yoke up differently; to associate discordantly; unequally yoke together." It is used but this one time in the Bible.

The word "yoke" means a coupling as when two oxen are coupled or yoked together by a pulling beam to do work such as plowing a field or pulling a wagon.

And so Paul is telling the Corinthians congregation which was steeped in paganism and their cities peppered with pagan temples, that they should not be "unequally" yoked with those that practiced paganism or any works of darkness. They were to avoid: "unbelievers, unrighteousness, darkness, Belial, infidels, and idols." There it is. That's the list Paul gave them, exactly as we read above. Nothing is mentioned about marriage, but it does apply to marriage.

------------

Now we need to understand what's important in this teaching. Paul did not say they could not marry someone if they were "carnal." He did not even say that they could not marry someone if they were an "unbeliever." He warned against being "UNEQUALLY yoked with unbelievers." It is the "UNEQUALLY" yoked aspect that is most important.

------------

I believe that the key phrase in all this is to not become "unequally" yoked. Now Paul said with unbelievers, which makes it obviously the wrong thing to do. First you would be "yoked unequally" and to make it worse, to an "unbeliever." Now Paul tells us that this admonition came from him personally under God's inspiration certainly, nonetheless he adds: But to the rest speak I, not the Lord" (I Cor. 7:12).

And so I will take a little liberty myself and suggest that when it comes to marriage (remember Paul is not specifically speaking of marriage here), and say that we should neither become unequally yoked together with BELIEVERS. In other words, we should not become unequally yoked with another, but especially Unbelievers.




Marquez
Okay, maybe not the exact very same beliefs, but neither totally unequelly.  At list this is where am I now.   I agree that respect should be a good things, but respects stills; only a feeling.


Here a definition;

respect.
    * 1 a feeling of deep admiration for someone elicited by their qualities or achievements.

      ■ (respects) polite greetings.

    * 2 due regard for the feelings or rights of others.

    * 3 a particular aspect, point, or detail.

---

Honestly after a few years of extreme inequality I might get tired to be polite (note: for the ones that are already married and are tired to be polite, that patience should surely bring out something good).Anyway, the original post (With God all things are possible) is talking about someone looking for a mate, not about the ones that are already married or in long terms compromises. 
Moises

[Oatmeal]

Now she is remarried so he is free to remarry and longs for the intimacy and companionship.

I hope that it is OK that I write and try to express my confusion and wondering at such a statement.  I can only guess that such a statement arises from the "except for fornication" statements in Matthew 5:32 and Matthew 19:9.  Perhaps it is not wise for me to make a guess so please correct me if necessary.

Perhaps I am not capable of logical thinking but would someone please explain to me from the Scriptures why someone is free to remarry if his/her original and first marriage partner goes and marries someone else.  If God treats the second marriage as adultery then surely that means that the first marriage is still valid and remains current in God's eyes.  If the second marriage frees up the partner of the first marriage to remarry then the second marriage just mentioned can no longer be adultery as the very act of committing this adulterous second marriage means that the first marriage is no longer valid and so immediately that makes the second marriage no longer adultery and also valid.  Am I thinking straight?

If a husband divorced his wife and by that act forced his wife to remarry (perhaps in past times she needed to remarry to survive) and therefore made her to be committing adultery (continuous or present tense not a one time action of adultery) then would the fact that his wife was now committing adultery mean that his divorce was now valid?

Perhaps someone could set up his or her marriage partner and arrange the circumstances to make the partner fall and thus free himself or herself to remarry. 

Here are the Gospel verses where Jesus mentioned marriage and divorce.  Please forgive the use of the KJV:

Matthew 5:31-32
It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Matthew 19:3-12
The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? And he answered and said unto them,  Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Mark 10:2-12
And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him. And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away. And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter. And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Luke 16:15-18
And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

It is only in Matthew (twice) that the "escape clause" appears: "except for fornication".  The act of a married woman having sexual intercourse with a man that she is not married to is an adulterous act, but Jesus did not say "except for adultery", but "except for fornication".  Why does this "escape clause" not appear in the other Gospels, and also not in the writings of Paul?

Matthew 1:19
Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.

Here is an example of a person who was intending to divorce someone whom he had not yet married – he was engaged to her but not married – so how could he divorce?

from "WHAT IS MARRIAGE? . . . . . . . . . . . . . Biblestudy Feb. 2007"

Espousal was as legally binding as marriage.  Did you know that?  It was as legally binding as marriage itself.  When you were espoused or betrothed to another, the way it was done in Israel, you could call that woman your wife and she could call you, officially and legally, her husband.  But you couldn't sleep together until you were fully married. 

When you were espoused to one another it had a covenant contract all by itself, before the wedding ceremony and the nuptials, which was another set of oaths and promises and covenants.  The way it worked was it was confirmed by oaths with a friend or a legal representative for the bridegroom and the bride was represented by her parents. 
What we would call this today is an engagement, I guess.  Engaged means we're already determined we want to be married, we just haven't done it yet, though it's similar to that.  But in Israel it was a little more legal.  Today you can say, 'I'm sorry honey, but here's your ring back, I'm out of here.  And it's all over, you don't have to get an espousal divorce. 

[That's like Mary and Joseph.]   That's why people don't understand it, he (Joseph) calls her his wife and she (Mary) calls him her husband.  People say, 'how can that be, they are not even married.'  They were legally espoused and you can say husband and wife.  Mary and Joseph, they were considered husband and wife before they married.

There is an opinion that Matthew was written from a Jewish perspective.  This is the only Gospel where the "except for fornication" clause is included.  It is not mentioned in the other Gospels and it is not mentioned in the writings of Paul.  The Jewish woman was supposed to be a virgin at her wedding, but if there was falsehood in this regard then the marriage could be revoked.  Originally Joseph intended to divorce Mary.

The "escape clause" applied in this way makes sense (for virginity fraud); otherwise you get the logical inconsistencies that I mentioned at the beginning (if they were logical).  And remember that the "escape clause" said "fornication", not "adultery".

(I am aware that adultery is fornication but fornication is not necessarily adultery).

Those who think that the mainstream church teaches the opposite of the truth (I don't think that this is a good way to decide what is true or not) can consider what the mainstream church teaches in this regard, and whence the easy divorce and remarriage doctrine.

The disciples appeared to be very dismayed at what Jesus taught in regard to marriage, divorce and adultery.

1 Corinthians 7:15
But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

The word "bondage" here is not the same word as the word the word "bound" as bound to a wife, or bound by the law to her husband.  Just thought that I would mention that.

In regard to "happy" second marriages:  Happiness does not necessarily mean that the marriage is a true marriage (a marriage in God's eyes).

I am learning that all feelings and emotions and "it feels good", and "I'm so in love", and "it feels right" etc must be subservient to Scripture.  If Scripture says "No" then "No" is what is meant.

I am a divorced male.  It was my wife that separated from me but it was I that divorced her.  She has since remarried.  Before God and before my present understanding of the Scriptures I am of the conviction that I must not remarry while she is alive.  In the past I have worked hard to get remarried, but my knowledge now is such that I know that I must not.

For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Am I being too hard on myself?

[mharrell08]

Am I being too hard on myself?

Yep

Ecc 7:16 Do not be overly righteous, nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?

What's done is done, move on. Anything that is not of faith is sin, so it's no point doing something for God when we don't really want to. If our heart is not into it, we shouldn't do it. A person who does so is only fooling themselves.

[judith collier]

Boy, did that subject just get glossed over. Look at Elizabeth Taylor, she had 8 marriages. Her motivation to get married was she didn't think it right to live together. In her eyes she was doing the right thing. She didn't know any better. A lot of people don't know any better.
But a lot of people do and justify it. I think the problem is many don't know themselves and until you are drawn by God they see the other's mistakes instead of theirs'.
Do you know the Greeks can have more than one
marriage as long as there are no children. I wonder where they come up with that one. Good common sense though taking into account human nature.
judy

[Duane]

In re-reading Oatmeals response to the guidelines of marriage and re-marriage, the answer came to me in a quiet moment.  The question is: How can God bless a second marriage and bring happiness to a union that He can technically call "adulterous"?
The answer is:  That our lives are planned before we are created and any choices we make
aren't really choices at all but merely the carrying out of our destiny.  We don't have free will.
So God has a right to condemn His own choices for us--a odd as it sounds--and He can bless any union He has fore-planned in our past and future.

[Kat]

Hi Duane,

That our lives are planned before we are created and any choices we make
aren't really choices at all but merely the carrying out of our destiny.  We don't have free will.

Your statement is not what Ray has been teaching concerning humans ability to choose. Here are a couple of emails to help you understand and the recent Biblestudy on Free Will (at this link http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,12957.0.html ) would be a big help as well.


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2368.0.html ------

We DO make all our own choices, it's just that we do not make them independent of the Sovereignty of God.   A child can pay his own way into a movie theather--with his FATHER'S money.

Yes, God has determined our choices and He has determine the outcome of everything. That is how He knows all will be well with all.

You do have choices and you do make your choices. You have a choice between apple pie for dessert or cherry pie for dessert.  It is YOUR CHOICE.  You can and will choose the one that YOU PREFER.  God does not force or make you choose the cherry when you really want the apple.  Have you EVER had such a thing happen to you?  Of course not. Well, then, you DO make your own choices and you choose what YOU prefer.  This is not as hard as we make it.  But of course you cannot choose the apple if God has predetermined that you will choose the cherry.  But that's okay, because you will not WANT the apple if God has predetermined that you must choose the cherry.


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1744.0.html ---------

I understand that these things are "spiritually discerned," and that people frustrate themselves over trying to understand spiritual things with a carnal mind. When a man rapes a little girl, IT ASSUREDLY IS NOT GOD!  When one prays to be rich and famous, IT ASSUREDLY IS NOT GOD!  ALL IS OF GOD, but not is all of God directly.  God created man--man SINS, God if free from sin and never sins or MAKES OR FORCES anyone to sin. Neither does He FORCE people to be rich or famous. God created man and man chooses what he does based on the strongest motivation in his heart.
And most people's heart consists of lust, lies, blasphemy and the like.

"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts he any man: but every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of HIS OWN LUSTS [whether for bad and evil things or for for what we may perceive as good things which may not be good or righteous things], and enticed" (James 1:13-14).

Man has the ability to make choices. He does not have the ability to make choices that are free from any cause. The "cause" of most of our choices is our mind and heart.  And of the abundance of our heart, our mind thinks, our tongue speaks, and in our body we take physical action.  Only God can give us a "new" and pure heart.

God be with you,
Ray

[Duane]

Kat and ALL the moderators...thank you once again for correcting my faulty thinking.  Also,
for the studies all ready written on various topics.  I like to turn them into "hard copy" so I
can carry them with me to appointments and things and also write in the margins.  In fact, having Ray's materials with me at my last appointment is how "I" was able to lead another person to this web-site and explain things he was asking about. (Maybe this idea will help you.) God works in mysterious ways!