When is it appropriate to have sex?

[zander]

Lets say you meet someone.  I dont have a length of time by which the relationship could last, so lets just say you meet someone.  At what point does it become appropriate to have sex with them?

Now, i asked Ray some years ago whether a "physical" marriage was needed to recognise "marriage".  Did we need the whole church ceremony or ceremony of any kind.  Of course, as i expected, his answer was no.

So its always got me thinking - at what point does it become appropriate to bond with someone in this way?  The way i currently see it, is that if you meet someone out, and lets say you sleep with them that night. Then you end up staying with that same partner without cheating until so the relationship ends for whatever reason - that is a marriage.  Conversely, if you meet someone and wait months until you sleep with them etc..that too is a marriage...I could be wrong of course.  Any pointers?

[arion]

Ray does address this on an audio but for the life of me I can't remember which one.  Hopefully someone else will jump in.  There is a reason why the marriage is sanctified with a ceremony and a ring and it's a biblical concept.  Marriage is supposed to be entered into with the concept of a life long commitment.  It's not jumping from one partner to another.  In the scriptures that is called fornication and will be judged.  You don't casually meet someone and decided to have sexual relations with them and call it a 'marriage'.  I think if we are honest with ourselves we all realize this.  The biblical model is one man and one woman for as long as they both shall live....period.  There are biblical grounds for divorce but I don't think that is what we are addressing here.

[zander]

At the moment, i dont see anything that is a physical symbol (ceremony/ring) to be of significance anymore.  Jumping into bed with various people is one thing, but as i say, sleeping with someone (at any point within the relationship) and then having a relationship[ with them is - to me - at the moment - a marriage. if i was stuck on an Island with someone and no else around, i probably wouldnt think i need all the physical marriage stuff to sanctify it...again, opinions?

[Cypress]

Yes, Ray talks about marriage in audios on this page: hope the link comes out.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2641.0.html

[mharrell08]

Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2679.msg19948.html#msg19948):

Dear Reader:

    Pre-marital sex is just as much a sin as extra-marital sex. If you want to

    sleep together, get married.  If you don't love each enough to marry,

    don't sleep together..

    God be with you,

    Ray


Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4112.msg31428.html#msg31428):

Dear Nicky:  That is a very broad and general question, especially in the light of the fact that your email is mostly centered around pre-marital sex. You already conceded that you agree pre-marital sex is not the godly thing to do. What you need to do then is have godly relationship. Obey the teachings of Jesus Christ. How do you do that? Well I don't think that I can explain it in an email. Read the material on our site. If kissing is long and passionate, then it will lead to lust which will lead you right back to intercourse and other such things.  It is no great mystery as to what things are wholesome and what things are lusts of the flesh. And, NO! you can't sleep with your girlfriend to "make her feel safe."  Come on..........................jus how close do you think you can get to the edge of the Grand Canyon before you FALL IN?
        God be with you,
        Ray


Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2798.msg20762.html#msg20762):

Dear Gloria:
        When you say "live together out of convenience" I assume you mean that they fornicate together, but don't want to commit to a long term relationship or a legal marriage, is that correct?  It's a sin. Just like any other adultery, fornication, homosexuality, etc.  The only legal sex in God's eyes is "married sex."
        God be with you,
        Ray


Marriage is a commitment not just a ceremony. It's never 'appropriate' to sleep with someone outside of marriage.

While a marriage 'ceremony' is not necessary (all the hoopla, church ceremony, etc.), some kind of ceremony that recognizes the commitment between the man & woman is. This can be done at a local courthouse or what not and the judge can be the only witness needed.

I would simply say to this 'someone': You can't serve two masters. Especially if this 'someone' knows the truths of God...the guilt would eat at them constantly. Ask anyone here about something that have struggled with and how whenever they give in, God brings it back to their remembrance. It makes you feel so guilty you don't want to do it again.


Hope this helps,

Marques

[cjwood]

thank you marques, and amen!

claudia

[River]

This is one of the things I disagree with Ray on. Arion's viewpoint is common and is exactly what the churches teach as well. I don't support casual sex or jumping from partner to partner as is often thought if you disagree with this teaching.

[bpenelli]

1 Corinthians 7
Contemporary English Version (CEV)

Questions about Marriage

1Now I will answer the questions that you asked in your letter. You asked, "Is it best for people not to marry?" [a] 2Well, having your own husband or wife should keep you from doing something immoral. 3Husbands and wives should be fair with each other about having sex. 4A wife belongs to her husband instead of to herself, and a husband belongs to his wife instead of to himself. 5So don't refuse sex to each other, unless you agree not to have sex for a little while, in order to spend time in prayer. Then Satan won't be able to tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6In my opinion that is what should be done, though I don't know of anything the Lord said about this matter. 7I wish that all of you were like me, but God has given different gifts to each of us. 8Here is my advice for people who have never been married and for widows. You should stay single, just as I am. 9But if you don't have enough self-control, then go ahead and get married. After all, it is better to marry than to burn with desire. 10I instruct married couples to stay together, and this is exactly what the Lord himself taught. A wife who leaves her husband 11should either stay single or go back to her husband. And a husband should not leave his wife.
   12I don't know of anything else the Lord said about marriage. All I can do is to give you my own advice. If your wife isn't a follower of the Lord, but is willing to stay with you, don't divorce her. 13If your husband isn't a follower, but is willing to stay with you, don't divorce him. 14Your husband or wife who isn't a follower is made holy by having you as a mate. This also makes your children holy and keeps them from being unclean in God's sight.

   15If your husband or wife isn't a follower of the Lord and decides to divorce you, then you should agree to it. You are no longer bound to that person. After all, God chose you and wants you to live at peace. 16And besides, how do you know if you will be able to save your husband or wife who isn't a follower?

What is marriage:http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5675.0.html
TERMS OF MATRIMONY
...

MARRIAGE:  Gk. gamos - NUPTIALS, marriage, wedding.  The CEREMONY and its proceedings including the 'marriage feast.'

That's the definition of marriage right out of the Bible.  Now do you see sex, intercourse, or love in there?  No.  Let's read it again, nuptials, marriage, wedding - the ceremony.  CEREMONY......I want to show this to you over and over and over again, it will blow you away, it's the ceremony and it's proceedings, including the marriage feast or the marriage supper or what we call in the western world 'the reception.' 

NUPTIALS:  Noun; 'A wedding CEREMONY' (Webster's Dictionary).  Adjective; 'related to marriage or the wedding ceremony.'

That's the first definition by Dr. Strong, it is nuptials.  It has nothing to do with having intercourse, loving each other, or producing children, nothing.  It means a wedding ceremony. 
The reason I decided to do this study, is because this person (email) is so hung up on the fact that ceremony has nothing to do with marriage.  The fact of the matter is, what he thinks is marriage has nothing to do with the definition of marriage, 180 degrees opposite direction. 
You can just go through dictionary after dictionary and Strong's and you can look up all the words; marry, marrying, marriage, matrimony, look them all up, they all cross reference, they all produce the same truth......the wedding ceremony.

WEDDING:  'The act of marrying, the CEREMONY of a marriage.'

It's the definition of wedding, nothing to do with living together, rearing children, loving each other, having sex......nothing.  Marriage is 'gamos' in Greek and marry is 'gameo.'

MARRY:  Gk. gameo - 'to WED, unite a man and woman in wedlock.

What is a wedding?  The act of marrying, the ceremony of a marriage, the exchanging of vows, the covenant agreement.  That's what marriage is.  Interesting, marry - to wed, to unite a man and woman in wedlock, it's the uniting process, it's not the going to bed process on the honeymoon.  It's the actual uniting, the wedding, the wedding feast, the nuptials, the contract, the oaths.

WED:  To take a spouse, to marry, to perform the marriage CEREMONY.

MATRIMONY:  'The act of being married; marriage.'  Used but one time in the NT and that's Heb 13:4  "Marriage (matrimony) is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled..."

It's talking about the actual institution of marriage, when you go pass the actual ceremony and you come to the bed.  In other words going to bed with your wife is to be honored, it is not something to be thought of as being a dirty or defiled thing.  But that is the only time that matrimony or you could put the word marriage in there, but it's really talking about the state of marriage and maybe matrimony fit's a little better.

ESPOUSED:  Betrothed - a promise to GIVE in marriage or TO marry - nuptials, exchange vows, covenant.  Espousal was as legally binding as marriage, being confirmed by 'oaths,' with a friend or legal representative by her parents.

When you look at all the words with an open mind and just let the scripture speak, there is no contradiction, these things are all in perfect harmony. 

...

[River]

http://bible-truths.com/email16.htm#physical
All Physical Rituals are Carnal

Dear Ray,

If we are no longer, as Christians, to observe the Lord's supper would you please explain (1Cor. 11:23-26)? And (Acts 20:7)?

Almon

[Ray Replies]

Dear Almon:

Is it the fact that you find a Scripture stating something in the Word of God that you conclude that we should "do it?"

I have absolutely nothing against anyone who wishes to keep the Lord's supper. I have nothing against anyone who wishes to be circumcised or be baptized. I have nothing against anyone who wishes to sacrifice animals or offer sin offerings, burnt offerings, peace offerings and the like.

Gen. 6:14 commands:  "Make THEE an ark of gopher wood...." I have nothing against anyone who wants to follow this command and "Make an  ark of gopher wood."

There are hundreds of things commanded in the Scriptures. I have nothing against anyone who wishes to do ALL OF THEM. I don't. I never made an ark of gopher wood, and never intend to. 

Any just why don "I" do any of these things? Well, actually I used to do some of them. I used to pay my THREE tithes (oh you didn't know that there were THREE tithes?). I was water baptized. I used to wash my brothers feet, and I used to partake of the Lord's supper once a year. And now I don't. Why not? Because there is absolutely nothing physical that can make one spiritual.

Paul baptized at one time in his ministry and then he quit. Why? Because he put away childish things and went on to spiritual maturity.

Paul used to circumcise in his early ministry and then he quit. Why? Because he put away childish things and went on to spiritual maturity.

All physical rituals are CARNAL ordinances, and we are no longer under carnal ordinances. We are now under the "Law of the Spirit of Life." "We know longer know Jesus after the FLESH." Jesus HIMSELF said: "The flesh profits NOTHING." "The words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT and they are LIFE."

Although it was mighty important in Christ's time to worship in THIS mountain or in THAT mountain, Jesus Himself said that the time would come (and so it has) that we no longer worship here or there or in this manner or in that manner, with this set of physical rituals, or with that set of physical rituals, but rather WE WORSHIP IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH.

We are to WORSHIP IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH! Now then, does anyone think that we can add to those instructions by adding a few physical, carnal, rituals? I think not.

I hope this helps your understanding a little better.

God be with you,

Ray

[Rene]

sleeping with someone (at any point within the relationship) and then having a relationship[ with them is - to me - at the moment - a marriage.

  I'm at a loss for words!

René

[zander]

This is confusing.  I am at the point where i really dont see that a physical ceremony necessitates a marriage.  Its a physical thing.  Besides, where do you marry and who marries you?  A marriage is surely a spiritual bonding, no? Jumping into bed with people without an intent of love is one thing , but sleeping with someone you feel a lot for and can see the relationship going places, without a physical ceremony, is a marriage, no?

The scriptures on this are confusing too.  It says if you are single and have a burning desire, then do it - marry - better to do so than live in frustration .  What like, anyone?  Go online and find the next Russian bride?  God has a sense of humour and i admit that is quite funny, maybe he was having a laugh when he wrote this 

[mharrell08]

Let's move on...this subject has been covered many, many times by Ray and throughout the forum's history.

I've learned when it comes to sex, people are willing to throw any principles to the side in order to ease their conscience. We've all done it but that doesn't make it right.