Unreasonable Son

[cheekie3]

Help -

How do you deal with a son who keeps getting himself stuck and requires money to get home; or stays away for a day or more at a time - who is depressed, cannot get a job, will not communicate face to face, texts all the time, switches his mobile phone off when you try to talk to him - and does not seem to want to understand that his family do not have an endless supply of money.

This is affecting all our family and we do not know what to do any more.

Thanks, Regards, George.

[lilitalienboi16]

Help -

How do you deal with a son who keeps getting himself stuck and requires money to get home; or stays away for a day or more at a time - who is depressed, cannot get a job, will not communicate face to face, texts all the time, switches his mobile phone off when you try to talk to him - and does not seem to want to understand that his family do not have an endless supply of money.

This is affecting all our family and we do not know what to do any more.

Thanks, Regards, George.

With some.. TOUGH love? Our Father knows all about tough love.. maybe it's time to follow His footsteps on this one.

That being said, I have ZERO kids myself so... 

God bless,

Alex

[arion]

I would echo what Alex said.  If he is an adult and is being just plain lazy or irresponsible then your not doing him any real favors by bailing him out.  You have done what you can and if your resources are stretched then boy is going to have to learn to make it on his own.  If he is still living at home then he has to live by your rules and you provide three hots and a cot and that is it.  No money for his phone or this, that or the other thing, ect.  If he has some mental health issues then he is going to have to seek counseling.  But above all else remember that God loves him more than you do and God uses the school of hard knocks to get our attention sometime of which I sure many of us can attest to.

God bless....

[Joel]

I pray that God will let him see that he is being stubborn, and rebellious.

Joel

[ez2u]

there is a lot of information missing here, maybe you could fill in the blanks.  how old is the son? what is his education?  are you divorce? what is his activities , friends ect...  does he do any drugs?  stop giving him money right away a BIG mistake parents make.  Kids don't need money they get into trouble with it.   boys need hard physical labor because of their hormones.  It help to settle them down.  It doesn't sound like you are taking control.  God teaches us through the natural things that the things we do  come back on us.  those are good lessons sooner a person learns this the better life they have and the people around them.  If he hung up on me i would not talk with him on the phone that means not or any reason.  Its rude and you don't want to train him to treat you that way  right?  walking is a wonderful exercise  good for the body?   

[cheekie3]

ez2u / Alex / Arion / Joel -

Thank you all for your input.

My eldest son is 25 and has tried everything to get a Job; but it is very, very difficult.

He is a very private person; and extremely difficult to talk to and get any information from him.

He dropped out of college at the end of his second year.

He has many, many, friends.

I am married and have two other sons, aged 22 and 15.

He likes to go out all the time and wants his own space away from us, as he says that he cannot live with us as we are too many in our house.

I have called him "Too Many Mates and Cannot say No".

He has a drinking problem and smokes; and I ado not believe he does drugs (although my two other sons believe he does).

He has never been able to support himself since he dropped out of college.

He likes to do physical work, driving a Fork Lift truck and working in a Warehouse.

He was a Bin Man for a while - which was very, very hard for him - but he kept at it. Unfortunately it was through an Agency and it did not become permanent.

Like most youngsters 25 and younger, he feels that there is no hope for the future.

I know that a lot of youngsters highlight of the week on payday is to get drunk; as they do not believe things will ever get better, as most are on low paid jobs with uncaring and unreasonable Managers.

I believe most men settle down when they meet their God given Helpmate.

He loves a certain girl but she keeps mucking him about; and they are not together anymore. I believe she broke his heart; as he kept saying he loves her like I love Mum.

I do not know what taking control means anymore - as with Patient Confidentiality and the Data Protection Act - it is now not possible to obtain any information from Hospitals, Police or Doctors.

It appears that Parents have no "Rights" anymore regarding their Children - even if they are under age.

I have tried to do Good to him and Not repay his evil deeds with evil.

My wife, Mother, Sister and I (who are all Believers) pray for him (and others) on a daily basis.

He keeps saying "Why was I Born", as it is very demoralising when you do not have a Job - as your self confidence is all gone.

I often hang up on him as he does not let up - and goes on and on - and does not appear to understand that we also have needs and there is not a never ending supply of cash.

He blocks my calls when he does not want to speak or may be with his friends.

He walks everywhere and often - he does not give up.

My other two sons have had enough - and my wife and I obviously love him - but we do not know what to do anymore.

My wife and I have told him that we wished we were dead - as this is making us all very ill - and it is a living nightmare.

We know that the Lord prepares the steps of us all; and He maketh Vessels for honour and dishonour.

I have asked the Lord to speak to his heart and mind; as my wife and I have told him all the things that he does wrong, and he does not deny this - saying he is trying and do we know how hard it is out there.

His mind is fully functionally and picks up on things - so his mind is very sharp - and he is a very attractive young man with many talents - but gets down as he has no Job.

My 22 year old son's confidence was blown to bits for 18 months when he could not get a Job - he kept saying that he must be stupid and unemployable. Once he got a Job, within a week his confidence was back - and he is very happy at Work.

My wife and I know that The Lord Works (Causes) all thing after the Counsel of His own Will; and no one can go against His Intentions - and this must include the Lives of our Family of five.

My wife and I cry out to Lord continually; and I feel that I have failed every member of my Family.

My wife and I believe that he would be fine - if he had a permanent Job.

Please continue to Pray for us all - and that The Lord will Grant us the Wisdom to finally resolve this issue that affects us all, especially our eldest son - whom we love dearly.

Thanks, Regards, George.

[ez2u]

Thanks George for all the information this helps  hear your love and care for this son  its in your words.  I know what it is like to have a trouble son  I have a son who is mentally ill with schizo effective.   I am not interested in war stories   just wanted you to know i have and am there.  Its hard because the work it is doing in your life  The challenges, daily stress, even torment we go through with our children is the tool in Gods' hands that molds us.   I threw out a few words to you   your reaction told the story    life isn't easy  things don't go as we think in our mind they should go we try to make them and it doesn't work Gods' will is being done and we are like ants looking up at all that is around us.  How does an ant see a computer?   I do know we are to love one another and so i explore what that means.  there are  very very basic functions Jesus talks about that helps if we can apply them   maybe you will think about them when you are in contact with your son and be able to apply one or two.  This nation watches a lot of tv  or grew up watching it and has a precondition mind as to how it aught  to be.  I have found lately the day is enough and Jesus is teaching me lately to have a thankful heart!  thank God it isn't me trying to teach me!  I use to live a lot in the past or future now each day is vibrant.  this is much more enjoyable.  Some people like a lot of drama to their lives so they live that way for a long time   it helps them feel alive externally.  common practice.  We have the life of Jesus Christ in us WOW  how great is that !!  Maybe if your son saw you enjoying your life because God gave it to you and you and your wife was happy in this knowledge It would catch him and pull him back to your family, in his timing. Laughter is very catchy and a cheerful heart a heart of thanksgiving and praise You know it doesn't do any good to make a codependent relationship with him, he is a grown man and now has more accountability to his Father in heaven. I am sure your prayer are heard   but are you hearing?  these are just a few thought   hope they help  I am sure some don't apply to you please just tuck them away  one more item  work does not define a man  how he serves the Lord does.  I have not worked out side of my family for many years  but I am extremely busy person.  There are many things to do  that is very fulfilling  getting out of yourself and doing them is the key.   God does provided what we need.   which is different than what we think we need.

[cheekie3]

ez2u -

Thanks for your understanding.

I am a very patient man, but our eldest Son gives us grievous daily grief, sometimes three or four times a day.

On a logical level, it appears that he thinks of believable stories in order to extract cash from us.

But as I keep telling him - no one has that much misfortune on a daily basis.

It is really a war in our family and not one of us four can get through to him.

I will continue to pray for you and your family, especially about your son.

It is true that we are all going through suffering, tribulation, etc, including our eldest - and it is almost impossible to bear at times.

I know that we are all being molded in our Father's Hands - but how long will this last - when will we experience peace, blessing and pleasure rather than this continual cycle of evil.

When The Lord took away hate from my Wife's and my hearts and minds - He did a complete Work - as no matter what evil we suffer, including from our eldest son's troubles - we are now NOT able to Hate anyone at all. We forgive seventy times seven and carry on as best we can.

I am in contact with my eldest son manifold times on a daily basis - and it is rare not to communicate for more than a day at times - and this is usually when he is upset with me - as he gives me his cold shoulder.

My Wife and I are thankful, and have learnt to Serve Others - whether they deserve it or not; and we put our own needs aside.

We know that Life is Good and The Lord is Good - but currently we keep asking Him how much longer before His Consuming Fire has Tried and Purified us all in our Family with this particular Chapter in our Lives.

I know that when a person is sad, they may eat chocolate, etc - and I want to get to the place when no one in my Family seeks alternatives - and instead we should wait upon The Lord to complete His Work in us - so we can be Happy again - and I know we should all be in a state of Peace, Joy and Love in Christ Jesus no matter what our situation is.

I will meditate on what you said about my eldest seeing Christ Jesus Living His Life in me - and I obviously have Failed on this many, many times - because of his unreasonableness. But there is no excuse, I should be a Good Living Letter.

Our Hope is that The Lord Drags our sons to Him; especially our eldest - and My Wife and I know how much our eldest has inflicted pain and agony on us and on himself.

I totally agree about laughter and a cheerful heart of thanksgiving and praise is GOOD for us all.

We have been trying to encourage our eldest son (and sometimes strongly lay into him) to stand on his own - but to date he has not quite managed it - and I have seen strong evidence of how hard he tries and has tried.

We all know that The Lord hears all prayers, especially those from sincere and pure hearts - it is just that my Wife and I have not yet had any clear messages, impressions from our Father.

My Wife and I know that even if we gave the best advice possible to our eldest - it is always the Lord that enables a person to seek to change and do Good.

I am not sure I am hearing what my 15 year old son is saying, nor my 22 year old son, and especially my eldest 25 year son is saying - nor what my Wife is saying who is a Trojan and works very, very hard each and every day looking after us all. She really is a Good Help Mate and a Prudent Wife - and I believe deserves much better - but this is all in our Father's Hands for us all.

I really appreciate your thoughts, encouragement and advice. Thank you.

One of my Believing Sister's s constant Prayer is - Lord I do not want ever to do anything wrong, and I want to please you in all that I desire, think, speak and do - and this is my Wife's and my Prayer too.

We all know that God does provide what we all need - but we are currently struggling big time with finances (as are most people).

I have meditated long and hard and have wondered if people were debt free and had no money problems - would this make them better and happier people.

I am not sure what the answer is but I do not personally believe that having no money problems would make a person a better person or a happier person - otherwise all the rich would all be this way.

Please continue praying for us.

Thanks, Regards, George.

[Gina]

Hey George.

What you're going through is very difficult -- especially for you. 

Your son manipulates you into giving him money.  And because you're not able to hate him, you give in and give him money.  Been there! 

But you can do even better than that. 

If he were my son, I'd be tempted to remind him over and over again that he has two legs, two arms, two eyeballs, two ears, two hands, ten fingers, and toes and a brain that he clearly knows how to use.   You might be doing that already in your own way and words.  Keep doing it!

But how to get him to listen? That's a tough one.  I got mine to listen by acting like a maniac sometimes.  I wouldn't recommend that.  But if you did, then... 70 x7!

She got so sick of my complaining that when it came time for us to go our separate ways, she was like, Buh-byeeeee...

And since then, she's been supporting herself for the most part (I thank God for that and take no credit to myself, and I'm sure you'd say that very thing about yourself).   

You do not have an easy task ahead of you.  It sounds like your son is on drugs to me, too. 

So, on the one hand, your and your wife's hearts go out to him because he's your son and you don't want him to suffer.  But on the other hand you're angry and justifiably so.  Because he's clearly taking advantage of the fact that you have money and he doesn't.

Yet, you don't want to upset him because if you do then he'll be angry with you.  This would be me (not you, but me) in that situation:  "Oh, no, what if he goes out and hurts himself..."  (((biting nails off)))

Hurting himself more than he already is?

I'm trying really hard to not give you advice.  I'll give you some more stories.

My friend's daughter was doing the same thing your son is doing to you.  And my friend was real worried for her.  My friend is so non-confrontational and her daughter got away with bossing her around and getting all kinds of money from her -- money she could have earned on her own, just didn't want to. 

My friend loved her daughter but she hated what she was d-o-i-n-g.  So she prayed.  She prayed and she prayed and prayed and prayed.  And you wouldn't believe some of the stories I heard in the meantime. 
Horrific stories I wouldn't tell a living soul!

And you should see her daughter now. 

My friend and I both got to the point where we had the money to give but we realized we weren't helping our kids learn to stand on their own two feet so we cut them off financially.  And it was hard, and we had a lot of guilt about it.

But had we not cut them off financially, we'd still be arguing.  Not the best use of time. 

I figured, welp, I'm the adult and I know that it's most undesirable to want to grow up and support yourself because it's HARD.  But it's not impossible. 

I was making this mistake that many parents make:  I wanted to make her comfortable.  I wanted her to have a better life than I had.  She got real comfortable.  And the more comfortable she got the less comfortable I got and we'd argue and I said, Oh, okay!  You think what I'm doing is so easy, then let's see YOU try it!

So, years go by and now after not living together for a few months this is what she says to me:
"Mom, I'm so glad you didn't spoil  me and make a big deal out of birthdays and all that stuff.  It taught me a lot."    (We live in Southern California -- Orange County -- the materialistic capital of the world.)

Well, the good news is she just got a job working for Hasbro (the toy company) making almost as much as I was as a legal sec'y 5 years ago.  Doing what she loves -- drawing anime.  She's working the Transformers show or something like that.  We're both elated.

I really hope your son isn't doing hard drugs like heroin or crack or meth or oxycontin, but it sounds like he is.  That would scare me.  I'd be on my knees day and night.  I would so be tormented and I'm sure I'd be kicking myself and blaming myself (maybe you're not, but I would be because that's just how my mind works). 

But you have God saying to you, I'm mightier than those drugs, George, and you're not doing your son any favors by teaching him that it's perfectly okay to go through life manipulating you and your wife and whoever else into giving him money.  Life's hard but not impossible!  If he wants (or at this point -- needs) to do drugs, he's gonna have to find a way to get his own money.  And if he has to go to jail for stealing for the drugs,  "Dang, We're gonna miss you!"  George, I'd be in his FACE!  I'd be like, Sure!  You can do drugs! ha!  You can pay for them, too, my man!  There's a gutter right down the road, too!  Mmmm, looks inviting, doesn't it.  I'm sure the ladies will be ALL over you then!  I'd embarrass him to no end.  I'd give him something think about.  ( Any maybe you have done all that.)

"Oh, Gina, that's not Christ like!"   

Hebrews 12:6:  "...the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son."

Psalm 119:75 I know, O LORD, that your laws are righteous, and in faithfulness you have afflicted me

Psalm 119:67 Before I was afflicted I went astray, but now I obey your word.

Before I was afflicted I went astray too.  So did you.  So did 99 percent of the people who come to B-T.  But NOW we obey.   Or at the very least desire to obey.

Life's hard but not impossible. 

God can use you to teach your son how to live in a way that's h-o-n-o-r-a-b-l-e, George.

When my friend's child needed money:  Gift certificates to the grocery store and gas stations.  Those were the necessities.  Anything beyond that was a want.

I used to tell my daughter, sure, you want money?  No problem, hon!  I have some laundry that needs to be washed, and how about driving to the store to get us some groceries -- I'll pay you for your time and gas and energy and I'll even pay for the food.   My car needs washing, here's a bucket. 

If I had a lawn, 'Needs mowing, hon.  Thanks!'

I know, I'm sure your son doesn't have any desire to do those things - just like our kids didn't but if he wants your money, he's gonna have to earn it fair and square.  What he chooses to do with it once it's out of your hands is his business.  If he gets hungry and embarrassed enough, he'll look for work.

This, of course, all presumes your son doesn't have mental or physical problems preventing him from getting work (besides the poor economy) above and beyond any drug usage.  My heart goes out to you and your wife.  And your son, too, because I didn't want to grow up either.  I was forced to, and I have my days and I'm not perfect, but I'm not a drain on anyone and for that I'm thankful.

Ahhh, now that was just what I needed.  Thanks, George!

[Dave in Tenn]

Hebrews chapters 3 and 4, with Spiritual eyes, may give you some direction concerning your last post's comments.  Clearly it's 'labor' to enter rest, and we probably don't see the full flower of that in this life-time.  It's you He's giving faith to, not your son just yet. 

Only to add that the 'advice' of Scripture that Ray reminded us of to think on Php 4:8  Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. 

To my mind, in whatsoever situation, there are these things to 'think on'.  That may be a worrisome telephone call or a cold shoulder.

I can't be of any more practical help, because at times I feel more like your son than I do you. 

[dogcombat]

George,

I wish I could tell you EXACTLY what to do.  But I really can't.  Your info about your son reminds me of a former Atlanta Brave OF Otis Nixon.  Even though he claimed to be "born-again" etc, He was constantly indulging in all kinds of trouble.  His brother told the Atlanta Journal Constitution newspaper, that Otis "would call me at all times to get him out of trouble.  Finally, I just had to let the phone ring and ring".  Thus Otis had to admit he had a problem that made had him out of control.  You may have to let your son TOTALLY fall down by letting go of trying to hold him up.  That doesn't mean you stop loving your son, it's just that he need to experience a "Jonah Moment" where God will bring him to a point of brokenness & surrender. 

As I said I wished I could tell you what to do.  But let the Lord guide you by His Loving Spirit and may His Father's will be done.

Ches

[cheekie3]

Ches / Dave / Gina -

Thank you all for your input and sound advice.

I will meditate on what you have suggested.

God Bless you all.

George.