Laws of Scripture

[newgene87]

So this should be an easy question to answer. Reading this email

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6549.msg52518.html#msg52518

And that person reminded me of the laws that are in the Scripture. The "food" laws, men shaving, wearing mixed clothing and all that. Ray said something remarkable and it got me thinking.

You asked if I "condemn people" who eat shrimp, shave, or wear polyester?  NO, and neither do I condemn homosexuals, however, the Scriptures do, and I was just passing on that information

So I wonder; knowing these laws, not that I have an desire to live by these, but do these Laws of Scripture condemn us?? The law about not sowing mixed seed (garden???) is wild (Lev 19:19). It's just that these are all what the scripture says, how do we, IN TRUTH, and in Jesus - get around these laws?? The main laws, Jesus covers in the "Sermon on the Mount" - but for these that Jesus didn't cover, what are we to do? It's also because, just about after every Law, it says, "...It is unclean to you...." -- "...they are an abomination to you." and etc

Just need a little clarification. And actual scriptural references would be appreciated or links to Ray speaking on this. Again, not regarding Sabbath keeping, Washing, Ten commandments - just these law that speak of "things being unclean" or an "abomination"

Eugene

[Gina]

I understand that we are already guilty of all and that we have to die but that Jesus Christ came to save us from sin and death?

I don't know if these things will help but here you go:

Romans 8:3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned SIN in the flesh,

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.


<< Acts 15 >>
American Standard Version
   
1 And certain men came down from Judaea and taught the brethren,'saying , Except ye be circumcised after the custom of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

2 And when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and questioning with them, the brethren appointed that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

3 They therefore, being brought on their way by the church, passed through both Phoenicia and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.

4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church and the apostles and the elders, and they rehearsed all things that God had done with them.

5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying, It is needful to circumcise them, and to charge them to keep the law of Moses.

6 And the apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider of this matter.

7 And when there had been much questioning, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Brethren, ye know that a good while ago God made choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

8 And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us;

9 and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

10 Now therefore why make ye trial of God, that ye should put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

11 But we believe that we shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in like manner as they.

12 And all the multitude kept silence; and they hearkened unto Barnabas and Paul rehearsing what signs and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles through them.

13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Brethren, hearken unto me: 14Symeon hath rehearsed how first God visited the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16 After these things I will return, And I will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen; And I will build again the ruins thereof, And I will set it up:

17 That the residue of men may seek after the Lord, And all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called,

18 Saith the Lord, who maketh these things known from of old.

19 Wherefore my judgment is, that we trouble not them that from among the Gentiles turn to God;

20 but that we write unto them, that they abstain from the pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from what is strangled, and from blood.

21 For Moses from generations of old hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath.

22 Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men out of their company, and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely , Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:

23 and they wrote thus by them, The apostles and the elders, brethren, unto the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greeting:

24 Forasmuch as we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment;

25 it seemed good unto us, having come to one accord, to choose out men and send them unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

26 men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who themselves also shall tell you the same things by word of mouth.

28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things:

29 that ye abstain from things sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication; from which if ye keep yourselves, it shall be well with you. Fare ye well.

Regarding your article on tithing:
With Luke 11:42 stating:
"But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all
manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye
to have done, and not to leave the other undone."

Does this tell us that we are to tithe by it saying "not to leave the other
undone"?
Keith

Dear Keith:

ABSOLUTELY NOT!  Jesus was not speaking to "us" at all, but to the lying, two-faced, murdering, hypocritical Pharisees and Scribes.  These Pharisees were under the OLD Covenant, not the New. They worshipped at the Temple in Jerusalem. They were under the Law of Moses.  They were REQUIRED BY THE LAW OF MOSES to tithe.

WE are not under the Old Covenant law of Moses. We are under a NEW Covenant. There is no Temple anymore. There is no Levitical priesthood anymore.  There is no tithing to these priests of farm and agricultural products anymore.  Jesus never collected tithes for His Church or minstry. The Apostles accepted voluntary offerings from the heart, but never taught, or collected tithes from anyone. Paul never taught the Gentiles to tithe. They never instructed the Gentiles at the Jerusalem conference (Acts 15) to tithe. Gentiles never "tithed" to Paul or to anyone else. They voluntarily gave to the saints of Jeruslem, but they did not "tithe."  Money was never a tithable commodity. Etc., etc., etc.

God be with you,
Ray

( http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=2427.0 )


Excerpt -

Here is the purpose for the Law of Moses:

    "Knowing this, that THE LAW is not made for a righteous man, but for the LAWLESS, and DISOBEDIENT, for the UNGODLY and for SINNERS, for UNHOLY and PROFANE, for MURDERERS OF FATHERS and MURDERERS OF MOTHERS, for MANSLAYERS, for WHOREMONGERS, for them that DEFILE THEMSELVES WITH MANKIND, for MENSTEALERS, for LIARS, for PERJURED PERSONS, and if there by any other thing that is CONTRARY TO SOUND DOCTRINE; according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust" (I Tim. 1:9).

( http://bible-truths.com/email13.htm )

[newgene87]

Thank you Mama Gina. Acts 15 was exactly what I needed. I just get in many situations about the bible says, "we're not suppose to eat swine", "get tattoos" (Lev 19:28), blah blah - I really despise getting into these situations and at most, idk what say, especially for those in Christ. But Acts 15 was a major help. I just feel like I'm throwing out the Law of Moses -- and I hate feeling that way. But thanks. I will keep this in Prayer

Eugene

[Gina]

I thought its purpose was to lead us to Christ like a schoolmaster -- and when we're following Christ we are no longer under that schoolmaster. 

I don't know if this will ease your mind at all, but ...

2 Corinthians 11:3  But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds
will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.  (simple and pure...devotion to Christ.  Christ.  Not devotion to the law of Moses.)   

There's nothing at all simple about the Law of Moses IMHO.  But I realize it's a struggle.  I hope and pray God settles your mind and gives you peace on the matter very soon.

Love you my son.

[noeleena]

Hi.

What tribe of the hebrews are you from . were you given any laws .

no that would not be posible  or would it,

The biggest prob with  the what we have of the letters is some are not talking about what was said & are wrong  what we need do is look first at who was talking to who & when & what applys to us to day some 2000 years latter & some 4000 years ,

you know .We were never given those laws nore were the other tribes nations , peoples  that were around at that time .

would you say the book henry Ford had  writen on the cars he had made  going back to his day apply to us now  , you answer that & then think are our cars the same as then.

so apply the same to those letters  the answer is simple im not a hebrew & have no intersion of becomeing one  look what they did to each other let alone other nations  ,

of cause they are the two tribes  of 2000 years ago are called jews all the others 10 tribes were killed or died so from those two tribes we have the jew of to day,  are they still under this  so  called  set of law s  like they were then, again you answer.

you see if we dont know thier history we have no idear .

& if you look closely no other people.s  were given any laws apart from those they made for them selfs to keep the harmony in thier camp  ....

& any way what nation could keep a law any way...

...noeleena...

[Revilonivek]

The point is, the laws of the OT were so ridiculous that it shouldn't exist in the first place. Jesus helped us see the stupidity of those laws and we evolved. Thanks to him. Why do you think God cares about whether you mix two threads clothing or whether you shave or have a penis to enter the congregation of the Lord? There are so many stupid laws that is so irrelevant and has nothing to do with God. They are more of cultural laws more than God's laws. Of course they are going to use God to scare their people into submission, no matter how stupid the laws look. It's all about control.

[Gabriel]

"The point is, the laws of the OT were so ridiculous that it shouldn't exist in the first place. Jesus helped us see the stupidity of those laws and we evolved. Thanks to him. Why do you think God cares about whether you mix two threads clothing or whether you shave or have a penis to enter the congregation of the Lord? There are so many stupid laws that is so irrelevant and has nothing to do with God. They are more of cultural laws more than God's laws. Of course they are going to use God to scare their people into submission, no matter how stupid the laws look. It's all about control."



See more on Know Your Meme

[indianabob]

Very, very astute photo selection Gabriel.

One picture is worth many many apparently ineffective words.

Indiana Bob

[newgene87]

"...so ridiculous that it shouldn't exist in the first place..."

"...There are so many stupid laws that is so irrelevant and has nothing to do with God..."

These are strong claims denise, wowsers. But these were Laws OF God.

 Leviticus 11:1-2
"And the LORD speaketh unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying unto them, 2 Speak unto the sons of Israel, saying..."

And after some of the laws, it says..."I am the LORD" (Leviticus 19:3-4, 10 etc etc)

Deuteronomy 4:5-6
See, I have taught you statutes and judgments, as Jehovah my God hath commanded me... ye have kept and done [them] for it [is] your wisdom and your understanding) before the eyes of the peoples who hear all these statutes, and they have said, Only, a people wise and understanding [is] this great nation.

So God is giving these commands; I know that much. So they're far from stupid - even though they were a "yoke that no one could bear". (Acts 15:10). 

But thank you all. I mean I understand the Agreement that Paul and James have regarding - "Faith", "Works of the Law", "Good Works" - I just needed clarification on whether or not we can just throw those laws out. Acts 15 is the answer. Peter, James, and Paul agree on it. [Interestingly they wrote their own epistles ]. And as said - not to mention, I am surely a GENTILE, HEATHEN , most likely a descendant of Ham (of Noah). Doesn't matter, I live by the Faith of Christ, and I'm blessed in Him

[Revilonivek]

Ok.  I'm going to grace out of here. I need a break.  In just saying the laws do not make sense and why would God care abt mixing threads for clothing,  shaving, or whether you have a penis. They are irrelevant to the soul.  There are many  examples.  You can easily create laws and say they are the Lord's. Jesus mentioned about the pharisses making the yoke more than they can bear.  The culture  made the yoke too much to bear.  It was their doing,  not God and jesus is the God of the ot. He said so himself.

Its ok.  I need a break. Its not the right place for me right now.  God bless you all.

[lilitalienboi16]

lol @ the image xD

JEAN LUKE PICARD FOR THE WIN! STARSHIP ENTERPRISE!

[Gina]

Ok.  I'm going to grace out of here. I need a break.  In just saying the laws do not make sense and why would God care abt mixing threads for clothing,  shaving, or whether you have a penis. They are irrelevant to the soul.  There are many  examples.  You can easily create laws and say they are the Lord's. Jesus mentioned about the pharisses making the yoke more than they can bear.  The culture  made the yoke too much to bear.  It was their doing,  not God and jesus is the God of the ot. He said so himself.

Its ok.  I need a break. Its not the right place for me right now.  God bless you all.

At this point in your walk you don't believe God. 

Denise, there is such a thing as knowing the difference between good and evil, right? 

You say the law is essentially evil because you're convinced it was concocted by men who claimed to be speaking on God's behalf (prove it), but how would you know that the law was "unfit" if you never had anything GOOD to compare it to? 

Haven't you read that the law never made anyone righteous?  Why can't the law make anyone righteous?  Because that is the whole POINT of the law -- Hello?!!  Haven't you read the letter [law] KILLS (it perfects nothing) but the spirit [Jesus] GIVES LIFE (saves us from sin and death)?

If a law could be made that were able to make anyone righteous:

THERE WOULD BE NO NEED FOR JESUS CHRIST.

(Your toddler could understand this stuff it's so simple!)

This was all planned out by God.  Of course some of those laws sound ridiculous.  (And noeleena nailed it.)

I'll say it again:

The laws were made so that no one COULD obey them.  But why?!

Because that *WAY* Jesus would have someone to SAVE (from the law of sin and death).  Remember, Jesus is the *WAY*?  No one comes to the Father except through Me -- NOT a bunch of laws.

We are BOUND under the laws of sin and death and Jesus came to free us from those laws.   

Besides, Jesus wants to have people to teach to become like Him -- not only knowing the difference between good and evil, but actually PERFORMING good [the will of the Father].

I hope that helps.

Come back when you're ready.  You won't be forgotten. 

Tah tah dahling.