So I want to go back to Babylon now! Why?

[Rhys 🕊]

I haven't gone too church now for over 3 years. It normally has not bothered me not having fellowship with other Christians except lately over the last few weeks part of me wants to go back. I feel such a battle going on it just drives me crazy.

I know what the church represents and Satan's throne being there so I wonder why I would want to go back but then I realise anything would be better than feeling the constant despair and depression that I feel at the moment.

I've been too a few churches around here and get asked a lot to come back and why I am not going to church. The church I liked the most of the ones I went to has just built a new building and will be opening soon. I get asked to come along but I don't want to but then part of me says go along. I use to be the worship leader they're playing guitar and singing, which I don't do now. I miss it a lot. The people there were always so loving and encouraging to me, seems hard to turn my back on them. Explaining to them why I don't go is never easy, sometimes I feel to share some things I have learnt now or feel to be quiet about it. It's never easy either way. Sometimes I wonder if it would just be easier to go back.

I get so confused over it all but God's word says

1Co 14:33  For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. (MKJV)

So I wonder why I get so confused with it all. For years I had no interest but know part of me pulls me back to it. Can't handle this despair I feel at the moment. I hope it will pass but I just don't know.

I'm glad to have the forum and get involved as much as I can but it's just not the same. These feelings just seem to get worse and worse every day and I wonder why I have to feel like this. Why can't I just have no interest in the church now and just move on in God. Seems pretty easy when you think about it so why isn't it?

Was talking about it to someone today, was thinking God help me to get out of this and why did I put myself in this position anyway. I just said well I have to go now so off I went  wondering if that was the right thing to do or not.

In guess we are all at different places so I might be sounding rather silly to some and that's OK if I do. Sounds a bit silly to me, you would think I would know better now. Maybe I don't know how to handle people questioning me about it all the time or just don't want to deal with it. From being so involved to nothing becomes hard to explain to some people. I would imagine they go away and pray for me for becoming a backslider. You know the stuff- please brother come back into the fold, we miss you so much, you can't go on without fellowship and so on. (Why must I keep bumping into these people?)

I wish I didn't feel like this now, as I didn't a little while ago. I thought I was past all of this, for it to return like this seems unfair and I'm being tormented for some reason. Maybe I have mental problems for feeling like this. It's like I go a bit crazier everyday constantly asking God what's going on here. Can't handle the feeling of taking 1 step ahead in God and then 2 steps backwards. I have to say it makes me feel awful. I know it's hard but does it have to be this hard.

I have other people to see and hang around with but most are not believers. I guess there was something in the church that I liked or thought I needed. Something of God that I don't feel now. I'm not exactly sure what it is or why I feel this way now.

I don't know if I need prayer, advice or just bang my head against the wall a few times. The wall sounds a good option to me as long as it's not too hard.

Well thanks for reading my rant and wasting 5 minutes of your life . It's not all bad in my life but this is just something at the moment that is a struggle for me so wanted to share the good news. I was just about to delete that line "good news" but then thought maybe it's good to go through these things even though it does not seem good at the moment. We all have our struggles and I would imagine most of mine fall short of what others go through.

I think it helps me just in writing this even if I confused everyone now.

Thanks to everyone for your encouragement and love towards me. It's very much appreciated by this struggling wretch of a man.

My love be with you all in Christ Jesus. Amen.

Rhys

[cjwood]

hi rhys.  i was about to (finally) go to bed but thought i would check to see what was happening on the forum.  i am glad that i did, because i got to read your rant.  which was not a rant at all.  it was the truth.

i personally am thinking that your desiring to go back into the churchy/babylon is two-fold.  1st fold:  you are having a hard time trying to explain in words what you know in your heart to be the Truth, to those who ask why you are not attending church anymore.  kind of like if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.  2nd fold:  you are missing the social aspect of attending a church.  lots of warm bodies sitting around you conversing and singing and listening together.  but, that is all about emotion.  not the Truth.  which is in your heart.  which God graced you with. 

but rhys, sometimes one of the hardest truths to comprehend is that the path to righteousness is INDEED narrow.  and often times lonely because it is so narrow.  but the Truth that God's Holy Spirit has shed in your heart is WORTH that.  and so much more.

well dear brother so far away in new zealand, but as close as a click away, i don't know if any of this has helped you.  hopefully it hasn't hurt you.

i now MUST go to bed.  it is 3am/cst in austin.

continue to pray, and pray, and pray some more.  Jesus Christ is as close as your breath.

claudia

[thewatchman]

It does supply a social need with in us. My favorite part was the cup of tea afterwards catching up with friends. And hospitality, shared and received. I loved it. I don't fellowship like that anymore and I still love my old friends. We still connect over facebook, but by and large, my church upbringing was a wonderful time for me. I just have a different calling now. I couldn't sit through bad music and teaching for a cup of tea I could make at home.  In fact the idea of doing it would make me feel physically sick. I imagine myself sitting through it and judging everything and I don't like the idea of how I would feel being so judgmental. Not very attractive and not showing the fruit of the spirit.

[arion]

I know what the church represents and Satan's throne being there so I wonder why I would want to go back but then I realise anything would be better than feeling the constant despair and depression that I feel at the moment.

Lk 5:39  No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.


The above scripture is describing what your going through right now.  We know that God has to work in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure and that is without question.  The church 'stuff' that we used to do and enjoy is pretty much all flesh based even through all the beautiful songs and stirring anthems as well as of course all the people and things that we did.  True fellowship of the spirit is a much higher plane than that which we enjoyed in our old churches. 

In spite of the music and friendship in their churches the fact still remains that they don't believe what you believe as they teach and believe that God is going to torture most of humanity in real fire for all eternity, ect.  Regardless of the smiles and warmth you may feel from them if you got up before them and told them what you really believed about all of these things do you think they would still extend the hand of fellowship to you?  They would throw you out on your ear and shake the dust off their feet thinking you to be a heretic.

I emphasize with your angst but can two really walk together unless they be agreed?  If you attempt to go back to one of these churches one of two things are going to happen.  Either your going to be sucked right back into the Babylonian system or you'll be disgusted with it and want back out.  You won't be able to sit under the preaching and hear all the lies that are spewing forth from the pulpit.

Obviously we are no better than they are and we all pretty much believed what they believed at one point in our lives but can one really go forward by falling back?

[Ian 155]

everyone I talk to does not buy our "gold",I too get into a place where "can this be right "?
Must be ... "the few and the many"

keep strong and do not faint

[Extol]

Rhys,

If it's the social part of church that you miss, maybe you can get together with some of the people that you say were loving and encouraging. Not to have a Bible conference or anything, but just to hang out...Go to lunch, play tennis, watch rugby. . . We are to "come out of Her" but I don't think that means we are forbidden from being social with people who have different beliefs. My family (which lives in a different state) believes the traditional teachings of Christendom but I still love going back to visit. We don't have any discussions on our faith--we mostly just spend time together, playing games, playing sports, watching movies, talking about life, etc.

If you do fellowship with any of these folks, maybe just being around you will have some influence in their lives that may eventually lead them to the truth. Last spring I exchanged a few e-mails regarding my beliefs with my mother, and was encouraged by her responses...until she suddenly stopped responding and said, essentially, that we should agree to disagree. Yet after I visited home for Christmas, she said "Your father and I still cry when you leave. You are by far the most Christ-like of our sons." This was very surprising. She knows I don't go to church, and my two brothers do go to church (the same one as my parents, in fact.) During my Christmas visit, we never talked about my beliefs or anything. I'm not even sure why she said it, but apparently there was just something about the way I carried myself, or talked, or behaved, that made her see Christ. Maybe something similar can happen if you hang out with some old friends from church.

And of course, you can always play guitar and sing, whether you're in church or not, whether with others or alone.

Hang in there brother, we love you!

[space.ace.jase]

If you want to go back then you should try going back to a church. But like the post above said are you going to be honest with those people? Are you just going to sit there while the paster spews out lies about hell?

I could never go back to a church, I stopped going years ago and I have never missed it for a second. Everything is so fake it makes me sick to my stomach. Let us know how it goes.

[Rex8]

Wow!

I went back to reread the beginning to make sure I didn't miss

"Hi...My name Is Rhys and I'm a churchaholic..it's been....."

I am the odd man out since I never enjoyed church since the first one I walked into(and the ones I got kicked out of)  and the sentiment was mutual.

At least you are on the right track...you know it's BAAAAD idea to even think about it.It's all part of the process though.It too will pass.Religion is the most insidious addiction there is because it all seems so GOOD at the time.The reality it is Gods most potent cure for...RELIGION!!....it is an inoculation of sorts.When it works we only need one strong dose to cure us of it....

But more than that it is fertilizer.Paul flashed his credential of a Pharisee born of Benjamin  circumcised on the 8th day and as to the righteousness of the Law ...BLAMELESS ..Paul was VERY FULL OF DUNG.His religion could have fertilized all of Israel for decades but he counted it as loss.

Paul had to go through the process and look back at his piles of dung to keep him from going back to the sheep fold.God uses ALL for good.Religion is one of the main methods to make the infertile soil fertile to produce trees of life and 30,60 and 100 fold fruit.

Religion is not so easily cured by a few true doctrines.It is piled on until the dung is so deep we can't breathe.No one walks away from it smelling of roses soon afterwards...or even long afterwards..the roots are as deep as they stink...

to mix the metaphor ....pluck out your right eye and run far far away and fast as hell and don't look back at the pillars of dung.

[Rhys 🕊]

Thanks for all your encouraging comments, means a lot to me.

I was thinking about this today quite a bit and I feel I get a bit affected by people who feel sad for me not going to church as they think something has gone terribly wrong which is not the case. I walk away afterwards thinking I wish they wouldn't feel sad for me then I start to feel not so good for them feeling that way which gets me a bit down (just being honest here - I'm not perfect).

I was also thinking maybe it can be harder for some of us who use to be heavily involved in the church like I was compared to those who use to just show up to the service, sit down, then leave and do this each week. That was never me I always got involved since I was young and being honest I liked church most of the time. The last year I was in church was the worst. I couldn't start the pastor and his wife. I left after we had an argument. I feel it's a good thing now as if it didn't happen that way then maybe I would still be there.

I don't want to go back to church it's only a part of me that does but I'm not about to let that part of me have the final say. I would rather deal with the pain that I have now than to make it worse going back to church as I can see more clearly now that would happen and I will be worse off than ever and why we would I want to put myself through that. The church in question didn't preach hell at least they didn't when I was there and they even refused to do songs that mentioned hell but they are into tithing and the trinity and all the other stuff typical to the churches.

I have no motivation to play guitar since leaving church but I hope it will return as it was something I enjoyed even playing alone.

Thank you my friends for your words and reading my rather worded post.

Rhys

[Dave in Tenn]

I had stopped going (other than the occasional visit) many years before even understanding why.  I thought I was the 'bad guy' (not untrue at all) and was missing what they had.  Didn't want to be the hypocrite because I'd exhausted myself trying to be righteous, and didn't fit in.  Shouldn't fit in, even. 

That passed, and it was helped along by a visit to a christian music concert.  What I would have had to throw off in order to 'enjoy' the 'worship'!  As sucky as life can be, sometimes, I just don't want to add that to it.  After the 'high' wears off (and eventually completely wore off) it's a burden I could never bear and no longer want to.

Jesus gave examples of the "reward" of religion.  And it's true, that for many there IS reward.  But it's temporal, earth-bound, carnal, and not age-abiding, heavenly, and Spiritual.  It's the best thing many people can do, yet one of the worst things I can do.  How do I explain that to others?  I'm not sure I can.  Even if I engage them in theological discussion, until they themselves see the evil of eternal torment and the blasphemy of "free-will", it means little to them even if they mentally can entertain the idea of the salvation of all and the sovereignty of God.

Talking with my friend Larry was just trading points.  My mother called my disgust with 'hell' not concentrating on the important things.     Then she ran out of the room crying like I'd joined a cult.  I can't be that compromising any more...not that I can't be compromising...I compromised for years reading one thing in Scripture and seeing another in practice for the sake of 'fellowship' and 'getting along'.

The churches are home to large numbers of good, well-meaning individuals.  It seems though that those who 'believe' the most are the most messed-up and those who can go-along have a pretty good time while it lasts.  While they are happy, why should I interfere?  It's God who does the dragging and they will be content until they are not...same as me. 

But, as I said, it wasn't 'them' that drove me out...it was me, ultimately.  I reckon there are two ways not to be a hypocrite.  One is to do right, and the other is to get out. 

I'm not going back (Lord willing) until I get my turn to preach.  Right now, the one who needs my sermons most is still ME.     

[Rhys 🕊]

Excellent Dave. I get a few blank looking faces when I say too much. I came to these truths but no one pushing me into it so I think I need to tread carefully with others.

Have never done an occasional visit since but they did try often to get me back. I almost did but glad now I didn't. I agree dragged, God's done a lot of that with me. I was not at all content with what was going on in church. Too much confusion and I couldn't see God in the light that they were portraying. God must be really stupid if what they are saying is true.

Make sure your message gets tapped. Would love to hear that message. Of course that's if you get to the end of it before a riot takes place.

[Gina]

Rhys,

If it's the social part of church that you miss, maybe you can get together with some of the people that you say were loving and encouraging. Not to have a Bible conference or anything, but just to hang out...Go to lunch, play tennis, watch rugby. . . We are to "come out of Her" but I don't think that means we are forbidden from being social with people who have different beliefs. My family (which lives in a different state) believes the traditional teachings of Christendom but I still love going back to visit. We don't have any discussions on our faith--we mostly just spend time together, playing games, playing sports, watching movies, talking about life, etc.

If you do fellowship with any of these folks, maybe just being around you will have some influence in their lives that may eventually lead them to the truth. Last spring I exchanged a few e-mails regarding my beliefs with my mother, and was encouraged by her responses...until she suddenly stopped responding and said, essentially, that we should agree to disagree. Yet after I visited home for Christmas, she said "Your father and I still cry when you leave. You are by far the most Christ-like of our sons." This was very surprising. She knows I don't go to church, and my two brothers do go to church (the same one as my parents, in fact.) During my Christmas visit, we never talked about my beliefs or anything. I'm not even sure why she said it, but apparently there was just something about the way I carried myself, or talked, or behaved, that made her see Christ. Maybe something similar can happen if you hang out with some old friends from church.

And of course, you can always play guitar and sing, whether you're in church or not, whether with others or alone.

Hang in there brother, we love you!

I just wanted to comment on your reply, Extol.  That bolded part nearly made me cry.   What an affirmation.  What a blessing it is to read those words!  Wow.

God blessed you.

Gina

[Gina]

Rhys,

Don't you like Extol's reply?  I do.     No matter what you do, I wouldn't judge you for it.  Besides, I know you'll be back eventually.  We're like the Hotel California -- you can check out any time you like but you can never leave.  Bwwaaaahhahaahaahaaaa

hehe 

Gina

[Rhys 🕊]

Rhys,

Don't you like Extol's reply?  I do.     No matter what you do, I wouldn't judge you for it.  Besides, I know you'll be back eventually.  We're like the Hotel California -- you can check out any time you like but you can never leave.  Bwwaaaahhahaahaahaaaa

hehe 

Gina

I do indeed like Extol's reply. It's too awesome for words. Thank you Extol for it and bless you my brother.

I think I will stay here in Hotel California, it's nice and sunny here! 

And I agree Bwwaaaahhahaahaahaaaa and zhaaahaahhaaa (spellcheck does not like)

Rhys

[Extol]

I know there are people here who never liked church and have never missed it, but I'm more like you Rhys...I have missed it at times, and like you suggest, it was probably because I was heavily involved so it was a very "social" time for me.

When I was a teenager in the late 1990s, I was involved in a church that had a great kids program: full puppet stage, skits, music, other entertainments. I was on the puppet team. My three favorite times of the week, almost every week, were:

1. Sunday night youth group
2. Sunday morning church
3. Saturday morning puppet practice

Those were the highlights every week for me.

I relocated a few times, and I never went to a church I liked nearly that much. So I'm thankful that I didn't have to get pulled right out from it, because it would have been tough. By the time I did leave church for good (around 2005), it was pretty easy. I think when I do miss it, it's just the social times I miss. I had much more friends when I was a teenager than I do now. Of course, with the beautiful wife God gave me, I don't miss friends or church that much anymore. 

[GaryK]

"but then I realise anything would be better than feeling the constant despair and depression that I feel at the moment."

"Can't handle this despair I feel at the moment."

That's twice you said it.

Sounds like a good case of "at the moment".

Also sounds like you need to give this thing another think-through before you go doing something you'll regret.  But guaranteed, whatever you do, it's a planned event.  So don't sweat it too much.

Nonetheless.   You want fellowship?...fellowship with the forum like you've been doing or with your dog.   Guaranteed he'll have more compassion with your brief bout of despair than a group of folks who believe in the fiery pits of hell.  I don't care how much hand-waving and fellowshipping you think you're going to get comfortable with it still has a bottom line and that doesn't change no matter what branch of church.

No offence to ya.

[Rhys 🕊]

No offence taken. Thanks for your words.

Like Extol said I miss the social times. I do feel now it's not worth going back. I do feel it would make the despair I feel only worse. I know I don't want to leave the forum so if I went back to church I would imagine there would be a conflict between the two. I would then decide that one has to go and that would be church so whats the point trying to get some temporary relief.

I feel more benefit in suffering through what I am at the moment. I know God is there and He won't leave me. I'm just dealing with this situation now as did not feel like this in the last few years.

Not sure where the dog comes in. I have no dog and don't want one unless it's a toy one. 


Rhys

[GaryK]

No offence taken. Thanks for your words.

Not sure where the dog comes in. I have no dog and don't want one unless it's a toy one. 


Rhys

Well see?........right there's your problem, you don't have a dog.     


Consider: you may just, deeply, want to go show off your 'new wisdom' to the heathens.      Just a thought.   Everybody feels that at some point.   Maybe, maybe not.

[Rhys 🕊]

I see. It's a dog thing. It all makes sense now. Being man's best friend of course. 

[Rhys 🕊]

Here are some writings from Ray that have helped me so would like to share.

Brother Ray:

Hope this finds you feeling better and well on you're way to complete wellness, caused by the healing power of the Lord.

I recall reading a reply, by you, to an email. The reply was that you did not attend an institutionalized church.

Would you please explain, what you consider an institutionalized Church? Please feel free to give specific details. I meet with a small group of about 130 Christians. We attend worship services every Sunday, and other days and times, throughout the week. We have Elders and Deacons, as well as, a Preacher. We take-up a collection each week to take care of our expenditures, in the promotion of God's Word. I do not consider us to be institutionalized.

Love you Ray, May God's blessings be with you!

Frank


Dear Frank: This will have to be short as I am hopelessly behind in answering my emails.

"Institution" means something that is usually highly developed with laws and customs approved of by larger segments of a culture or society. Or any smaller such
institute which follows the teachings and practices of a larger institution.

There are tens of thousands of small and very small congregations of "Christians" around the world. Most all of them, however, follow the pattern and customs of the
larger well established Churches. If your church follows and practices such laws, customs, and teaching, then you are an institutionalize church of men.
In Christendom, there is not one teaching or doctrine that is completely Scriptural. Virtually all churches believing in and teach the following unscriptural doctrines:

Tithing is Biblical for the New Testament Church.
Sunday is the "Lord's Day" of worship.
Man has an immortal soul.
Death is LIFE at a different location.
Judgment takes place instantly at death, hence all dead people go immediately to heaven or hell at death.
The wicked and unbelieving will suffer eternal torment (in a Christian hell).
Jesus will not save the world even though that is what His Father commissioned Him to do (I John 4:14).
Resurrection is a useless doctrine, seeing that people supposedly go to heaven at death without first being resurrected.
Christmas and Easter are Biblically sanctioned holy days.
God is a Trinity of three different persons.
Prayer changes God's mind.
What Christians are "saved" from is an eternal hell of torture.
Salvation means going to heaven.
God gave mankind "free will/free choice/free moral agency."
Anyone can repent and come to Jesus anytime he chooses.
Speaking in tongues is the sign that one is a truly converted Christian.
It is a virtue to become a soldier and kill our nation's enemies.
The King James Bible is inerrant.
The Apostle's Creed is a true outline of Scriptural truth.
Jesus was wrong when He called His followers a LITTLE flock, seeing that Christianity is the LARGEST flock in the world, and the "many called but few chosen"
is now the "many chosen" seeing that there are now two billion Christians in the world.
There are many things that God desires, but will never realize, even though the Scriptures tell us that God will fulfill ALL his pleasure and desires.
According to Genesis chapter one, the heavens and earth are only about 6000 years old.
Noah's flood killed every living thing on earth except those thins in the ark.
Etc., etc., etc.

If your group teaches and believes the above unscriptural heresies, then they are an "Institutionalized Church" of men.
Let me know how your teachings stack up against what I have presented to you.

God be with you,
Ray


And a few other quotes from him.



You don't need a church when you learn that YOU ARE THE CHURCH. God is wherever you are, so don't feel deserted.



Why if you don't agree with virtually anything that is taught, would you ever want to return? You know what the Scriptures say about a dog returning to his own vomit? And "touch not the unclean thing," etc.


I have stated publically many times that "I am a member of the Body of Christ, the Church of the Living God." Perhaps you missed it. But we are to "COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE" (Rev. 18:4). Now there's an enigma that most theologians will never figure out in this lifetime. Come out of the Church and still be a member of the Church? HUMMMM


They are an encouragement to me

Rhys