Our irrefutable propitiation part 2

[Craig]

Yes, Faith in God.  Not the shroud of Turin, Bible Codes etc. etc.

However, you ask if your posts are being misunderstood, well given your reply's I would say that is a possibility because you reverse gears pretty quickly and claim your statements are not what you said/meant.

Craig

[dean kevin heyes]

Hi Arion I am most saddened by these events  as it is my testimony   of which I write, and it is in the testimony section of this forum , must my testimony conform to certain parameters . Understand that I have read L.Rays {RIP} web-site and I am in total agreement with his teachings and my testimony bears witness to the truth of his work  And I have great respect for it . But if these parameters are policed by a mans own interpretations of another mans work and this does not enable me to write the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth of how our LORD completely changed my life in a moment  from being a carnal minded beast, and my suposed bretheren dont care as I have also bean told by Craig          ,then I am at a loss 

[Dennis Vogel]

"One man's gospel truth is another man's blasphemous lie. The dangerous thing about people is the way we'll try to kill anyone whose truth doesn't agree with ours."

― Mira Grant

[dean kevin heyes]

Hi  Craig  OH really, I meant every word, it is just futile to argue points of opinion on speculation and neither can you or anybody else 

[dean kevin heyes]

Hi Dennis Wise words those are, I believe the Shroud Of Turin to be Christs linen clothes , but realize I have no hope of proveing this to others, which makes any attempt futile, I also understand their reasons for not believeing in its authentisity, so therefore respect their opinion and  I dont condemn them. the Ironic thing is my testimony had nothing to do with it, the only reason I mentioned it was because, when I was double checking Christ's spear wound low and behold the picture I now have in the pages of my bible which I found on the beach is the exact one taken off the Shrouds negative by Mr Soons the Holographer   

[theophilus]

Hi C.DRIGS I am starting to wounder if my writings are legible, or that they are not being read accurately ? Yes of course CHRIST had given up HIS spirit to THE FATHER as HIS heart broke prior to the thrust of the spear, hence HIS spleen had more than likely had swollen from  Pint to 1.7 pints + the 240ml of blood his heart would have held gushed out, I would have gone into more detail of this by now. but got bogged down in a disspute of opinion     In my opinion the point you made about  doubting Tom is irrelevent as he came to believe, now you could argue that those who believed prior to witnessing Christs resurection, haveing seen JESUS  went on to believe more than Tom . But I will argue that Tom, haveing asked for proof, and upon receiving it, went on to be as believing as the others{ tho be it by his shame of his doubt }  as is the case with me and who's to say the others had not dought before they laid eyes on our LORD   And besides who are we to decide how GOD should call his children out of darkness and into HIS light ? I asked GOD to give me proof, HE did,{ and know I know, as before I believed } I would hardly have asked GOD to remove my doubt, had I not believed in HIM in the first place, where would the truth be in that  GOD bless   

Your posts are legible and your enthusiasm is much more palpable. I'm happy for you. You believe that this shroud is the one that was used to wrap our Savior's body because of expert analysis and your PERCEPTION that God used this shroud to reveal Himself to you. God could have very well revealed Himself to you by using this shroud. But just because He might have done so doesn't make this shroud genuine. The picture depicting Jesus that you found by the shore might have been used by God to reveal to you the reality of His existence; however, this doesn't mean that the picture you found is a picture of Jesus Himself. Both the picture and the shroud seem to be about our Lord, but this doesn't make them genuine. The Quran mentions Jesus Christ, but this mention doesn't make the Arab holy book true! The Book of Mormon, the holy book of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, mentions Jesus Christ. This mention of our Lord in this book DOES NOT MAKE the Book of Mormon TRUE.

As believers in the word of God, we consider it to be the authority in matters of faith. The three-witness settling of an issue must come from the Bible itself. This means that if you talk about THREE witnesses regarding this shroud, these three witnesses MUST BE found in the Bible. The experts you mentioned cannot be considered witnesses in this matter. If you desire to accept their conclusions, it's your right and choice.

But just because these experts "publicly attested" that the linen clothes were those of our Lord does not PROVE that this is the cloth that was used to wrap the body of our Savior. Just as it is your right and choice to believe these men's conclusions, it's our right and choice to believe the witness of scripture OVER these men's conclusions any day of the week. Don't allow this to become an idol in your heart.

Just because the shroud of Turin isn't authentic doesn't mean that it takes away from how God apparently used it to reveal Himself to you. You are lightning quick to call others False Witnesses. As far as I could read, nobody here has passed judgment on you or persecuted you. Not to join you in believing the authenticity of the shroud does not equate to persecution So, if someone disagrees with you, he or she is a false witness??? My, my!!! What my brothers and sisters here are TELLING YOU is to use the Word to see if this is true.

Be practical as you also are but flesh. Use only the word of God to test the spirits. You must not hang your faith on pegs like this shroud or a place where Mary made an alledged apparition to where Catholics flock to worship her, and so on and so forth. Be careful or you're gonna end up with a collection of relics that have no place in the heart of a child of God.

The point Drigs made about Thomas IS RELEVANT because "BLESSED ARE THEY THAT HAVE NOT SEEN, AND YET HAVE BELIEVED." Can you SEE IT Dean? Jesus was saying that Thomas was not blessed as those who had believed WITHOUT SEEING!

Regardless of whether this shroud is genuine or fake, the all-important truth on which you should hang your faith is the fact that Jesus died for us and was resurrected by His and our Father and now lives to intercede on our behalf. We don't need a shroud TO HELP US BELIEVE in the death and resurrection of our Savior!

[John from Kentucky]

Hi Craig    I referred the scripture PROVERBS 16:18 to John because his opening statement was  I HATE TO MENTION THE SCRIPTURES  he then went on to change the word HEAD with his own word FACE  ? But when I warn my bretheren of their error in this case, the verse being a warning  and when I had clearly shown Alex that he was in danger of bearing false witness as you also made clear  You say you dont care what I belive in this is trully an odd statement for someone who is an administrator on a forum where faith in GOD of the Holy Bible is paramount . This is most unfortunate, all I want is to be possative and share my testimony     

Dean,

One minor point.  When I said, "I hate to mention the Scriptures...", that is what is known as sarcasm.  Actually, dripping with sarcasm.     It was an attempt at humor.

One time Ray wrote that some people have this type of personality, others another type of personality, still others don't have any personality at all.      Ray was being sarcastic.  Ray also gave examples of Jesus being sarcastic.  It is an acquired taste.  Only certain personalities can appreciate it.

P.S.  Sorry about the boo-boo of substituting face for head.  Face is a subset of head, but it was a careless mistake.  There is no ever burning hell fire as punishment, is there?  (WARNING--the last sentence was a sarcastic statement)   

John

[Dennis Vogel]

Dean, please make sure you read and understand the rules we have on this forum. They have served us well and kept this forum pleasant.

[dean kevin heyes]

Hi Theophilus GOD  bless you. I agree with you on all but two points you made and you made very good ones,  I have meditated on them all but I am unable to agree with the  two or three clear scripture proofs needed pertaining to all archeological proof/evidence of GODS miracles and neither did L.Ray, and he also used science to suport his localized flood theory, and the other minor point as this is a personel matter and that is the gift Jesus gave me which I believe by faith is the very mirror image of HIM. However you will be pleased that there are two scriptual witnesses to the proof/evidence  GOD gave me that resulted in my continual repentance. Pleas do not frown upon me because I was like Thomas and needed proof of JESUS but rather respect the fact that it was HIS decision to give it to me, And  Theo you did teach me one thing, which I am most greatfull, as its a big one and that is not to judge other believers who dont want the archeological proof GOD has given us .

[dean kevin heyes]

Hi John from Kentucky I too enjoy witty sarcasm  but you did ride in guns blazeing , yours post was the first post that mentioned something within my testimony. I first looked for your greeting, but there was none, and then the first words I saw was I hate ......and then you went on to debate a scripture which no matter how one reads it, it neither suports or detracts from the matter at hand, the "head,face" booboo did arouse my beast  the little thats left after JESUS brought it to heel      The scripture I refered, was two part, and it is the latter why I chose it, {faltered-fall} the foremost was just a bonus   

[John from Kentucky]

Hi John from Kentucky I too enjoy witty sarcasm  but you did ride in guns blazeing , yours post was the first post that mentioned something within my testimony. I first looked for your greeting, but there was none, and then the first words I saw was I hate ......and then you went on to debate a scripture which no matter how one reads it, it neither suports or detracts from the matter at hand, the "head,face" booboo did arouse my beast  the little thats left after JESUS brought it to heel      The scripture I refered, was two part, and it is the latter why I chose it, {faltered-fall} the foremost was just a bonus 

I learned a few things from a misspent youth watching John Wayne movies.

The Duke would take his girl, bend her over backwards, and give her a kiss.

Sometimes it's best just to wade in.   

[theophilus]

Hi Theophilus GOD  bless you. I agree with you on all but two points you made and you made very good ones,  I have meditated on them all but I am unable to agree with the  two or three clear scripture proofs needed pertaining to all archeological proof/evidence of GODS miracles and neither did L.Ray, and he also used science to suport his localized flood theory, and the other minor point as this is a personel matter and that is the gift Jesus gave me which I believe by faith is the very mirror image of HIM. However you will be pleased that there are two scriptual witnesses to the proof/evidence  GOD gave me that resulted in my continual repentance. Pleas do not frown upon me because I was like Thomas and needed proof of JESUS but rather respect the fact that it was HIS decision to give it to me, And  Theo you did teach me one thing, which I am most greatfull, as its a big one and that is not to judge other believers who dont want the archeological proof GOD has given us .

Hello Dean, God bless you. It's not about wanting archeological evidence. We shouldn't need to have such evidence in order to believe the scriptures. We believe in them by faith, not by sight.

You continue to miss the point made by Drigs. He said that you were blessed because you, unlike doubting Thomas, believed WITHOUT seeing. Re-read his post.

If bona fide evidence is discovered that supports the biblical account, great! But we don't need any evidence to help our faith, nor should we be fishing for such evidence.

I'd rather stick to the scriptures. But it's my personal choice. God bless you.

[Craig]

Posters please remember the rules we have in place on the forum concerning teachings that Ray did not cover.  Nobody is saying you are right or wrong about what you see as truth, but it is not the purpose of the forum to discuss it here.

Please read again if you want a brush-up

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3.0.html
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4558.0.html
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3614.0.html

Craig

[theophilus]

Posters please remember the rules we have in place on the forum concerning teachings that Ray did not cover.  Nobody is saying you are right or wrong about what you see as truth, but it is not the purpose of the forum to discuss it here.

Please read again if you want a brush-up

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3.0.html
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4558.0.html
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3614.0.html

Craig

Thanks for the brush-up Craig. Have a great day!

[dean kevin heyes]

Hi Theo I respect your honesty and your opinion, but it is with a heavy heart I return this post, so foregive me if I do not fellowship, but this is my last post.  My third post of my testimony was spamed, as I suspected, even tho I took all the steps to keep it  in perfect harmony with L.Ray's teachings. You see this revelation I was revealing { the things the desciples were not at liberty to tell / till the time was wright } is the very same thing the adversary does not want men to learn . Keep this verse close as it is the most mighty one   and who all,  shall attain. LEVITICUS 17:11  I bid you farewell your brother in JESUS CHRIST         

[theophilus]

Hi Theo I respect your honesty and your opinion, but it is with a heavy heart I return this post, so foregive me if I do not fellowship, but this is my last post.  My third post of my testimony was spamed, as I suspected, even tho I took all the steps to keep it  in perfect harmony with L.Ray's teachings. You see this revelation I was revealing { the things the desciples were not at liberty to tell / till the time was wright } is the very same thing the adversary does not want men to learn . Keep this verse close as it is the most mighty one   and who all,  shall attain. LEVITICUS 17:11  I bid you farewell your brother in JESUS CHRIST         

Hello Dean, it is with a heavy heart that I see you leave. Thank you for your kind words. I wish you well. God bless you brother.

[Rhys 🕊]

Hi Dean

I'm with GodISGracious as well Dean. We all have our issues and I have plenty. I've got my foot in my mouth to start with and find myself getting into hot water over too many things. You sound like someone who is hungry after the things of God so praise God there isn't that many people like that around. So we have our setbacks and issues but don't leave because of it. I have my moments to that I think of leaving but leave to what. I'm so glad I found this place, it's a great help to me. I know I'm far from perfect but we just have to humble ourselves and seek God and allow what Ray taught to speak into our Spirit. It's God's truth and I know that because God shows me that and I constantly go back and read and listen to what Ray has to say. It's such a blessing to me and I respect what the mods do to keep it the way.

So we are all on a journey here that's going to take a lifetime. If we don't stumble along the way then something is wrong with you. I know I stumble I've got foot and mouth disease. I'm not much of a person but I discover that God is doing a work in me and it takes time. I was reading in another post how we put a brick wall up from what we are taught in church and the thing is that wall has to come down and I know for me it's like brick by brick it gets dismantled and some of those bricks hurt but where here for a reason.

So don't be too discouraged. I have times that make me want to leave as well but I don't give into them. It's OK to have a break now and then and it's a good thing to do but if I'm still welcome here then so are you.

Please keep reading the material and praying. It has helped me so much I couldn't put it into words. Keep joining in on the discussions. Can you believe they still allow me to post here - crazy . I'm way too stupid.

Don't be too down about things my brother.

Blessings and His peace to you Dean

Rhys 

[gregorydc]

Hello Dean,
  I too along with God is gracious,  and Rhys don't believe you should leave. When I joined this forum I asked about one of my dreams given to me by God. There were some great answers, but there were a few that were not so nice. That bothered me a lot, but I didn't quit, because I knew that God had given me these dreams for a reason. The longer I have stayed here the more the truth about my dreams have come to light. So please dear brother if God is willing to let you read this again, there are many here who can help you along your journey to the righteous path of God.
Greg

[Dave in Tenn]

Everybody who joins the forum to post is welcome provided they abide by the rules of the forum to which they agreed before joining.  That includes every poster in this thread. 

Let's let Dean decide for himself what he should do.  I'm going to close the discussion at this point.