Its only money

[dodrill]

Its time for the poets, the lovers and dreamers, the philanthropist, natural healers, business men and thinkers (all of us) to be heard
Keep the bond that already exists between us - in a bond of peace
never before have we been able to see earth from a distance - and get a grip that we are humankind - under one sky - on a very small planet in a HUGE UNKNOWABLE SPACE - yes everyone will have a theory and historical story to tell - but it matters not - We do not have to defend GOD or any small god
If you are asking for money under charitable cause - be it religion, tax or social welfare - be accountable - you are a business and the people have a right to check the books (if its on our account) - Jesus asked the tax collector to come down from the tree and be personable

Well - I think about these things

[Dave in Tenn]

It must be pretty easy, Hayley, as practically every "group" on earth claims Jesus as one of their followers.   

[Rhys 🕊]

They can do no wrong, they all have Jesus.

Yes check out the books but will you like what you see. I'm not sure I want to look too much rather walk the narrow path that leads to life. Let them do what they want but let us seek after His truth.

So many think God can't do the job and they need to take charge. I'm amazed with certain Christians I still know and there need to justify every single little belief they have out of there need to defend God. Where is the Spirit of truth when they can't be still for 1 second to listen. So much talk and ideas but who wants to listen and surrender all up to Him.

Rhys 

[dodrill]

That's what so great guys - they cannot fool us and say they are doing God's work - God never wanted or needed my money anyway

ho hum

[jingle52]

there are many milliions of people and children out there who are living in desperate conditions and situatuons, when I see people (on TV) looking through waste dumps for food or for something to sell to earn a few cents, my heart breaks and I ask Almighty God to help them and make their lives a little better.
Some charity organizations take more than half the money sent to them and give what's left to the people in need.... and then again..... some do find honest people that help them..... All is of God.

Jingle

[Kat]

Mat 26:11  For you have the poor with you always...

It is all intended in this age of good and evil. The experience of this life has extremes with people having a great overabundance and those that have nothing, those that are powerful and those that are weak, the intellectuals and the ignorant, etc. It is a judge of society that determines the 'better' people.

This is the means by which God is developing character in us all, one day to be molded into something perfect. It is hard being in the middle of it all, but we are all witness to what carnal humans are capable of the good, the bad and the ugly...

Kat

[jingle52]

Amen to that Kat 

[loretta]

I tend to agree with Rhys here.  I use to feel like you do, Hayley, up until I came to the realisation that its God's economy and He decides how the money should flow and where.  Sure we must be good stewards of the wealth he's entrusted to us, but I'd rather leave the auditing to Him!

And as Kat never tires of reminding us, it is the age of good and evil, and we have to live in the midst of it.  I never did understand what Jesus said about the poor always being with us.  Pre BT, I figured that as the Kingdom of God advanced, with millons of souls being saved, we would see a more equitable distribution of wealth here on earth.  But now I understand that the poor serve a purpose in God's plan of redemption of ALL humankind.  And I don't say this theosophically. Here in India, we see poverty upfront, in all its ugliness and despair, magnified against an outrageous display of wealth.  I am constantly reminded to be thankful for what I have, as I battle the urge to enrich myself. Character building indeed!

[dodrill]

Thanks family for your good counsel - what I was trying to say was why do institutions (aka organized religion and others) still enjoy tax exemption? I understand the separation of religion/welfare and state affairs and the reason why they first were given this tax exempt status. But nowadays it seems they are only furnishing their own earthly kingdom? If they cannot comply or prove that funds are going to support the poor and the homeless etc (which should be their mandate) - they should be declared a business. Yes I am bad and will repent  and so too will we will always have the poor, but aren't we meant to defend the poor, fatherless and needy? One might say they are spiritually helping people and I am sure some organizations do - but collecting public funds without accountability? (not by their doctrines but by their deeds). I am not saying people need to feel pressured into supporting these organizations God forbid - but if it were public knowledge how the money was spent - surely some would think twice before giving? - So I am saying the laws of our land and our Bill of Rights are meant to protect all - and by these I mean accountable - thanks for hearing me out God is on control of everything and this is just an off topic discussion
I found this site interesting
http://churchesandtaxes.procon.org/

[indianabob]

Dear friend Hayley,
Loved your recent letter. It points out the faults with men's methods of providing protection for the man conceived church organizations. You made some interesting points.

When churches began in America they were influenced by their experience in the Churches of the "old" world.
In the area of public education the church provided schools for the general population and they were funded by the church member contributions. At one point the church organizations asked the general public, non members, for financial support for their education responsibilities and it was granted. However, in a short time there were complaints that the schools would teach a biased view of religious beliefs and that there should therefore be a separation of authority and collection of funds. This then led to a "public" school system divorced from the religious school system at least in the elementary education area. Advanced education as in University continued to be supported by the various religious organizations for some time until open secular lifestyles became acceptable. (there is quite a lot of published history on this facet of American schools)

More to your point, the operation of any church should be entirely funded by the membership with NO contribution from the general or secular, non member population through conscripted taxes. God does not need to extract taxes to support the teaching of HIS word. The new covenant is spiritual and should be spiritually understood, not by compulsion.

Ray Smith has said that we should not try to mix the old covenant of laws with the new and better covenant of spiritual understanding. I think that the same idea should be applied here.

If our way of living pleases God it will prosper. We should not even think about begging for funds from the unbelieving public and of applying the coercion of our "vote" to compel their contribution to our teaching and sharing of the truth of God.

So to address your first question, should church organization be tax exempt? NO!
Neither should they be tax burdened above what other users of the public provisions are burdened.
A large and useful church building resting upon five acres of parking lot and worth perhaps $500,000. is blessed with the services provided to every other building on that street. They of course already do pay for heat, air conditioning, lights, power for the organ, water supply and trash removal. Therefore why should they not pay their fair share of the expense of operating a City? They receive fire and police protection, street maintenance and snow removal to allow attendance during the winter. Their property is protected by local building codes that limit encroachment upon their lawful use of the property, which by the way stands vacant and unprotected during the week.  So no, church facilities of the same character as facilities of other private organizations should not be exempt from reasonable expenses of lawful operation.
A side benefit of this manner of operation is the lack of the need of gaining approval from the non member local authorities for sermon topics on politics or other social concerns.

Just remember that any privilege that is granted by the public domain can later be withdrawn by that same granting authority. Best then to leave them entirely out of the situation and to learn to live within our means according to how God has blessed us.

On charity, we have a mandate from God in His word. That is a personal relationship and not the concern of others who may wish to support their favorite work.

Bob

[Nathan]

Hayley,

You bring up some valid points, but it's kind of like saying, "why does the church teach such evil doctrines?"

what I was trying to say was why do institutions (aka organized religion and others) still enjoy tax exemption?

One of the main reasons is, many people give ONLY to get a tax write-off. This is why most could care less about the accountability of those they are giving to. Of course, for those who have "come out of her my people", this is really not our concern. Whores do what whores do. To extend charity, one does not need to go through an organized church or any charitable organization.

The solution is so simple. Knowing that the organized churches and charities are corrupt, if one wants to give to the needy, then do just that - give directly to the needy. My wife and I feed the homeless. We buy the food, prepare and give it directly to them - there is no middle man. If someone would rather give money to a "charity", fine, but just realize that the majority of the money you give goes to "administrative costs", which often times can be as high as 90%.

[Dave in Tenn]

It's not always true that the majority of collected funds in 'charities' goes to administrative costs.  There's plenty of unbiased research available that gives the breakdowns.   

What I get from Scripture is that 'giving' should be done secretly--as much as is possible--and certainly without ostentation.  This goes for any number of 'good works'.  It's also practically worth remembering that no matter what we do or don't do in His name, there will those who object to it.  Maybe just another good reason to do it 'secretly'.     Especially since what we 'do' is not for the praise of men, lest we receive our 'reward' now.

[Rhys 🕊]

God knows our heart when we give.

Pro 19:17  Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will repay him for his deed.

I do think we have to have wisdom when giving and know where the money is going. It's been generous to the poor not the charity.


Pro 23:23  Buy truth, and do not sell it; buy wisdom, instruction, and understanding.

Buy into to this first then give in secret - for that is wisdom

Draw near to Him and He will show us what is best

Ecc 1:13  And I applied my heart to seek and to search out by wisdom all that is done under heaven. It is an unhappy business that God has given to the children of man to be busy with.


Rhys

[dodrill]

Thanks Uncle Bob
So Mystery Babylon doesn't fall because she has to start declaring her wealth