Ashamed of my conduct

[Dave in Tenn]

Ian, I believe it is talking about BOTH.  Paul made physical tents AND "spiritual tents".  I work for my employer, BUT I work as unto the Lord (at least when I do).  The church met house to house and fed one another.  The church also met heart to heart and "fed" one another.  The down-side also exists in both 'realms'.  There are the 'busybodies' who don't desire/will to work.  There is an equivalent in the Spiritual.

[Ian 155]

Ian, I believe it is talking about BOTH.  Paul made physical tents AND "spiritual tents".  I work for my employer, BUT I work as unto the Lord (at least when I do).  The church met house to house and fed one another.  The church also met heart to heart and "fed" one another.  The down-side also exists in both 'realms'.  There are the 'busybodies' who don't desire/will to work.  There is an equivalent in the Spiritual.

Dave I actually removed an earlier reply, I see a little veering off the subject on my part, I hear you and it does make for logical sense I think what is going on in me is a tug between things spiritual and a forcing of things logical - logic says if one does not do physical work he shall go physically hungry and resort to begging physically - Perhaps we start by being spiritual dogs begging spiritual crumbs who can know, this word is so huge I feel like a crumb myself.

As for the rest it is all spiritual we are fed and we feed others spiritual things as we are led,most times we don't even know how we are being used by Our God .

We are told to walk not after/according to the flesh so that should leave no speculation regarding physical and spiritual work?

It has crossed my mind "how then does one survive a Physical world" few answers that dont quite make logical sense "Seek 1st the Kingdom" "the Just SHALL live by faith"don't worry for anything but in all things by prayer...

Faith is the only thing that is able to accomplish these needs, when the physical realm we so easily fall back on, is removed by God.

It is a PHYSICAL,FEARFUL, SWEAT though.

this however is only my 2 cents

[Dave in Tenn]

Ian, I really appreciate what Ray said pertaining to this.  He said "we are not spiritual beings having a physical experience.  We are physical beings having a spiritual experience."  That clarified so much for me.  Add to that the understanding that things "spiritual" are not necessarily "good"--despite how some people use the word.  There is "spiritual wickedness" also.

I could preach now, but I'll spare you.     I'll just say life makes sense now. 

[Ian 155]

Ian, I really appreciate what Ray said pertaining to this.  He said "we are not spiritual beings having a physical experience.  We are physical beings having a spiritual experience."  That clarified so much for me.  Add to that the understanding that things "spiritual" are not necessarily "good"--despite how some people use the word.  There is "spiritual wickedness" also.

I could preach now, but I'll spare you.     I'll just say life makes sense now.

Not to sure im with u.... perhaps type in the word spiritual in the search bar and see some of your responses to earlier Questions you responded to on matters spiritual.you cant move the goalposts now,  I am not being argumentative either - this is important to me.

is it Physical bread we work for or is it Spiritual bread,
If all roads are blocked concerning employment am i an infidel Or not?
if folks con us for money to buy dope and get away with it, should we pray for such people or should we bitch an moan?
if folk are in need and we give should it be cheerfully or begrudgingly.
When Jesus left the disciples "Died" did they go back to there original physical disposition "I go a fishing"or is it a spiritual matter where without Christ we resort to/lean to our own physical understanding in order to survive

I may not have the finesse you guys have but i do know this, the word is spirit, the whole word. It is not understood by those who do not have spiritual ears.
What did that clarify for you? is spiritual wickedness a twisting of Christ[the word]? - wicker is the original word and it means to twist /weave, Im told
please be more specific like i said im not as sharp as you mods so if possible spell it out

Ian

[Dave in Tenn]

Maybe I had that coming.     I can't necessarily 'explain it', but maybe illustrate it?

I work for physical bread.  But in doing it, I learn spiritual lessons.  I have the opportunity to love my co-workers, to work "as for the Lord", and challenges such as what to do with my money, and own up to my many failings.  That's just a partial list.  I am sure that genuine love is Spiritual.  It's the first mentioned of the fruit of the Spirit, after all.  For someone like me who really doesn't naturally LIKE many people and is rather naturally intensely self-absorbed, this is something of a miracle.  But it's 'growing', not fully developed.  The fact that I know this, is spiritual.  I wasn't always like that.  Life-experience under a sovereign God and my own weakness, stubbornness, and ignorance made me like this...so life experience under a sovereign God will 'unmake me' like this. 

If all roads are blocked concerning employment, you are simply currently unemployed.  There are reasons for it, and remedies too.  Some of them may be 'physical' and some may be 'spiritual'--both reasons and remedies.  I have absolutely no idea.  Examine your own heart.  The 'example' in that passage above wasn't about a man who had no job, but about people with no will to work.  The first is physical, the second is spiritual.  Spirit is about attitude, motive...things like that.  That 'list' is incomplete too.

If folks con us for money to buy dope and get away with it, should we pray for such people or should we bitch and moan?  Don't know.  We will have done what we did.  I might not feel 'inspired' to do either one.  Then we examine our hearts (or not) and learn.  Some of what we 'learn' may be wrong...always or in some situations.  So we keep learning.  Or not.  Whatever we do, we're going to do SOMETHING.  We'll get our 'report card' later...even if it is 5 seconds later.  "Dave works and plays well with others, but needs to improve his study habits".

If folk are in need and we give should it be cheerfully or begrudgingly?  The Lord loves a cheerful giver.  When you give alms, don't be as the Pharisees who make a big show of it.  How much is too much of a 'big show'?  That's a spiritual question.  How much 'cheer' must we muster?  Is it OK to fake it?  These are spiritual questions.  The Lord knows the motives of our hearts.  What's hidden will be made manifest.

"When Jesus left the disciples "Died" did they go back to there original physical disposition "I go a fishing" or is it a spiritual matter where without Christ we resort to/lean to our own physical understanding in order to survive." 

I reckon they went fishing because they didn't know what else to do.  But then they learned.  And I don't know whether they never went fishing again.  I'm just sure that if they did, they remembered every word that Jesus said to them...maybe the parable of the fishes especially?  They physically went fishing and learned from the Lord a spiritual lesson.  More than one, actually.  But they wouldn't have learned it if they hadn't gone fishing...at least not that way and then.  And part of the spiritual lesson involved them 'doing' literal things...can't be a fisher of men if you don't fish for men.  You don't fish for men "symbolically" either.

Maybe "spiritual lessons" is too loaded a term too.  I develop God's spiritual traits.  I am conformed to the image of Christ.  I become less of a babe and more of a mature person.  I become less riddled with lust of the flesh, the eyes, and the pride of life and gain more 'contentment with Godliness'.  I need these things more than a job, but having a job puts me in a better position to gain them.  God has plopped us all down here in the flesh and in our circumstances.  He has surrounded us with good and evil, both of which He uses to 'create us in His image'.  In other words, we are physical beings having a Spiritual experience. 

Better?

       

[Ian 155]

I was beginning to think I'm spiritually wicked and sucking in theories rather than higher meanings.
Out of your response I'm getting -  "an experience in literal/logical understanding is evil and an experience in spiritual enlightenment is good"... is that what you are saying ?

it does help some
thanks
Ian

[Joel]

The way I see it Paul spent the first part of his life living, and acting according to the letter of the law.
When the Lord appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus his whole life was changed from that point on.
He was taught by the resurrected Savior for some time in the desert.
The letters that Paul wrote to the Churches are instructions, and teachings he obtained from inspiration (revelation) given him by the Lord.
Can the things Paul wrote be expanded on in Spiritual directions other than what is written? Sure, But we can back ourselves into a corner we can't get out of if we aren't careful.
Simply stated, Paul's writings are Spiritual revelations.

Joel

[Ian 155]

interesting Joel, least im not the only one getting excited bout certain scriptures opening up - I do believe that the spiritual is in each and every word, that is why we need to take care with how we use it. The Word is holy, think about it, acts 27/28, to shake of a poisonous viper that appeared out of a piece of dry wood [the viper, the wood ,the ship ,the wrecked ship, the pieces of wreckage ] each has a greater meaning. If one is enabled to see the greater meaning then it is not literal anymore and this is good news we have grown up a wee bit - in those higher meanings are the keys to the kingdom

not sure what u mean by getting backed into a corner though

Ian

[Dave in Tenn]

Don't want to speak for Joel, but it could be what he is warning about is confusing 'spiritual' with 'symbolic' and leaving out the "physical" altogether...what some people term "spiritualizing ", though I think that's a basic misunderstanding of "spiritual". 

We can get into thinking that 'this' always means 'that'.  Circumcision is literal.  They actually cut off the foreskin of 8-day-olds and converts to Judaism.  They still do.  Circumcision is symbolic.  It's a symbol of the cutting away of the fleshly nature and convenant with God.  Circumcision is Spiritual.  The 'circumcision without hands' that Paul talks about.  That doesn't happen to a foreskin...it happens in the heart.  No matter the presence or absence of your physical foreskin, if one is "spiritually" circumcised, he is undergoing the 'cutting away' of his carnal-mindedness and a new covenant with God.

Jesus took up His cross.  He literally and physically died.  Paul said "I am crucified with Christ."  Literal, symbolic, or Spiritual?  As I understand it, Peter WAS crucified...but he was "crucified" many years before that happened, and many times too.

I was beginning to think I'm spiritually wicked and sucking in theories rather than higher meanings.
Out of your response I'm getting -  "an experience in literal/logical understanding is evil and an experience in spiritual enlightenment is good"... is that what you are saying ?

it does help some
thanks
Ian

Well, no that's not what I'm saying...but I'm going to have to leave this there.

       

[Ian 155]

yp definitely missing each other on this one

[John from Kentucky]

Hey Alex,

Look at all the controversy you caused.  One day you will be this rich doctor.

Next time you see this bum begging a handout (which no decent man would do), give him the $20.

It will bring peace to the Forum.   

[lilitalienboi16]

Hey Alex,

Look at all the controversy you caused.  One day you will be this rich doctor.

Next time you see this bum begging a handout (which no decent man would do), give him the $20.

It will bring peace to the Forum.   

Oh if only John! If only! I don't even think I'd know what to do with too much money, I've never had alot of it though I've been blessed to have very supportive parents so that I never go in need.

A strange work the Lord is doing.. where will it go? I don't know. I Just hope it ain't in the opposite direction of Him. I don't want riches and fame, I Just want to do what I know in my heart is right and good the days of my life so that in the end, when the time of my rest is upon me, I may not be entirely ashamed of my conduct. Though I'm not going to lie.. a nice house, a pool and a spa as well, and some vacation time every now and then certainly sounds really nice...

Here's to all the future bums and future 20$! May God have mercy on us all.

[cjwood]

alex, i was running some errands earlier this afternoon and came up to a red light where a homeless man was standing.  i gave him a $20 bill and told him it was from alex.  he looked at me puzzled but said thank you, then with a few more words from him giving thanks to God, he went back up into the grove of trees where he was living. 

claudia

[octoberose]

Claudia, what a good heart God has given you. I think when God nudges me I will do the same thing - from Alex in God's name. 

[lilitalienboi16]

alex, i was running some errands earlier this afternoon and came up to a red light where a homeless man was standing.  i gave him a $20 bill and told him it was from alex.  he looked at me puzzled but said thank you, then with a few more words from him giving thanks to God, he went back up into the grove of trees where he was living. 

claudia

That was very sweet of you Claudia, thank you!

There is no need though to mention me! Give as God moves you, a cheerful giver, right? I think that's the lesson here.. no one can tell you when it is an appropriate time to give or when it is not. No one can judge you on these matters either. It is between the spirit of God and the person.

God bless and thank you everyone for a very edifying discussion.

[John from Kentucky]

Thanks a lot Alex.  You cost me $40 today.  God put me to a test.

I got back from lunch about an hour ago.  I just got out of my vehicle.  Two people came from nowhere; they were a young man and woman.  The young man asked me for money for food.  I'm surprised anyone asks me for a handout because I always wear my Winston Churchill war dog face in public.  I rolled my eyes and reached into my wallet.  The young woman then rubbed her very skinny stomach and said she was pregnant.  I said, "I don't believe either of you."  I gave the young man two twenty dollar bills.  He thanked me.  The woman repeated that she was pregnant.  We went our separate ways.  End of story.

I thought about you Alex.  This makes me more righteous than you and proves an accountant is more generous than a potential physician.   

[lilitalienboi16]

Thanks a lot Alex.  You cost me $40 today.  God put me to a test.

I got back from lunch about an hour ago.  I just got out of my vehicle.  Two people came from nowhere; they were a young man and woman.  The young man asked me for money for food.  I'm surprised anyone asks me for a handout because I always wear my Winston Churchill war dog face in public.  I rolled my eyes and reached into my wallet.  The young woman then rubbed her very skinny stomach and said she was pregnant.  I said, "I don't believe either of you."  I gave the young man two twenty dollar bills.  He thanked me.  The woman repeated that she was pregnant.  We went our separate ways.  End of story.

I thought about you Alex.  This makes me more righteous than you and proves an accountant is more generous than a potential physician.   

Oh john, you're such a hoot and a holler! The way healthcare is going and with all the negativity and hatred I see in the media towards physicians, even if I do become a physician, I won't have much of anything to give if things continue as they are. Hey... at least the government and the insurance companies will have their piece. Unfortunately for the average person, its the physicians that treat patients and help ameliorate, by the grace of God, each individual's condition and NOT the insurance companies or government. In other words, at this rate, soon there won't be any practicing physicians or at the least not very many of them!

I'm glad you called it like it was john. There is power even in that.

God bless,
Alex

[DougE6]

when people say to me "don't give to the homeless they might spend it on beer" I think to myself...do I always do the good and righteous thing with the money that God gives me?

The answer if your wondering ...is NO I don't.  So if God gives to me without putting a string attached to it then why should I feel I can do the same for others?

If they ask, and you are able, and your heart wants to...then give freely

[Rene]

If they ask, and you are able, and your heart wants to...then give freely

I also appreciate how Jesus admonishes us not to broadcast to the others the good deeds that we do, because when we do this, we have received the only reward we will get.  Just food for thought.

Matt 6:1-4 - "Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. 2 "Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

René

[John from Kentucky]

Lighten up people.  Save the sermons.  I was just kidding with Alex.


For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God.

Not of works, lest any man should boast.  Eph. 2:8-9