It's not really me !

[rick]

◄ Romans 7:17 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version  it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.

New Living Translation
So I am not the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it.

English Standard Version
So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

Berean Study Bible
In that case, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

Berean Literal Bible
And in that case I am no longer doing it, but the sin dwelling in me.


You know, Ray did say referring to Christendom that they really don't believe scripture . Today my eyes are open to Gods truths . Like Paul I too believe that the laws of God are good and holy but even so I do still sin but now I know its no longer me who is sinning but sin that dwells within me.

I believe God and if God says through Paul that its no longer I , then its really not me , I choose to believe God.

Now, there is no condemnation to we who are in Christ.

God bless.

[Dennis Vogel]

so I do still sin but now I know its no longer me who is sinning but sin that dwells within me

The sin in you makes it happen (effecting it, work out, working it out, work it) but you commit the sins making you a sinner in need of repentance.

(CLV)  Yet now it is no longer I who am effecting it, but Sin making its home in me.

(Diaglott-NT)  Now but no longer I work out it, but the dwelling in me sin.

(Rotherham)  Now, however, no longer am, I, working it out, but the, sin, that dwelleth in me:

(YLT)  and now it is no longer I that work it, but the sin dwelling in me,

[rick]

Hi Dennis,

I feel as if I have to nature's , the one in which came at birth and a spiritual nature.
The reason I say this is because I agree with the laws of our God, His laws are good and want to obey them.

But like Paul has said , what he wanted to do was not what he actually did but rather the opposite, so if we do the very thing we don't want to do then its no longer us doing it but the nature we were born with that is doing it.

How else can we be found blameless at His return ? Now I see how the children of God do not sin even though they do, this may sound like a contradiction but Gods children really don't sin but rather sin itself which is just working itself out, shame on sin but Gods children are justified.

God bless.

[Dave in Tenn]

Did Paul want to minister to the churches, or persecute them?  Build them up, or tear them down? 

How can it then be that he did the OPPOSITE of what he wanted to do?  Nonsense.   

[rick]

Did Paul want to minister to the churches, or persecute them?  Build them up, or tear them down? 

How can it then be that he did the OPPOSITE of what he wanted to do?  Nonsense.   

Hi Dave,

Nonsense you say ? Not according to Paul , your argument is not with me but with the words of Paul the apostle.

God bless.

[Dave in Tenn]

No, Rick.  My "argument" is with you.  I think I understand pretty well what Paul is saying.

[rick]

Hi Dave,

So, we agree to disagree,  but arguments I don't get involved with they seldom persuade one against their belief.

God bless you Dave.

[Dave in Tenn]

I'm not agreeing to anything.  If you want to start a thread to 'teach' your point, you should expect to be challenged.

Paul did NOT do the "opposite" of what he wanted to do.  He didn't say he did.  You said he did.

Further, he didn't say "he didn't do the sin".  He said he didn't do 'it'.  You said it was sin he didn't do.  What is the 'it' that he "would not" but did?  What is the 'it' that he "would" but did not?

To follow your logic, Paul was fornicating at pagan temples--because he did the opposite of what he wanted to do.  He continued to stand by the stoning of believers--because he did the opposite of what he wanted to do.  He wanted to not be a burden on the churches, but dangit, he just couldn't help himself and extorted them all.  But he didn't do those things.  Sin did. 

Nonsense.  Theological gobbledegook.       

[Kat]

Rick, you need to look at the whole passage to understand where Paul is coming from with that statement.

Rom 7:5  For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.

Paul is speaking about everybody are "in the flesh," carnality, beast, under the law, the old covenant... we all start out that way.

Rom 7:6  But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

There he shows the difference and is speaking to believers about the change that the Holy Spirit brings into their lives, "that we should no longer be slaves of sin" (Rom 6:6), no longer under the law. And he continues explaining the carnal nature.

Rom 7:14  For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.
v. 15  For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do.
v. 16  If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good.

And that brings us to the verse being discussed.

Rom 7:17  But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
v. 19  For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.
v. 20  Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
v. 21  What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.

Paul is still speaking about the carnal nature there as indicated by his question in verse 21. And then he goes on to explain how that all changes in the life a of believer with the Holy spirit.

Rom 6:22  But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.
v. 23  For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

All (past, present, future) of our sins are forgiven and cover by Christ's sacrifice, "there is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ" (Rom 8:1). It's not that we can stop sinning while still in the flesh, the only way one is "free from sin" is Jesus' blood covers them.

Eph 1:7  In Him we have redemption (Strong's - ransom in full, deliverance) through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace,

Rom 4:7  "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered;
v. 8  blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin."

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Dennis Vogel]

There is no free ride. You need to make an effort else you're out.

Luk 6:46  And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Luk 6:47  Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

Luk 6:48  He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

Luk 6:49  But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

[rick]

Hi Dennis,

I think I understand something as a truth only to be told I could not be further from the truth.

I'm not angry or even disappointed , if its Gods will I don't understand how to divide the word of God rightly then I'm out .

God concealed and hid a wonderful work He is doing in this world from my eyes, many are called but few are chosen.

I have been blessed to see and understand somethings from this site, the greatest thing I learned from B.t. is that our creator is not a monster but a loving creator.

Its obvious I dont get it and am not one of Gods elect but only one of the called who God is not going to choose.

Whatever God is going to do to me is going to happen and there is nothing I can do about it so I say why worry about it anyways.

God bless you all and I hope you all make it and become Gods elect.

[Dave in Tenn]

Hi Dennis,

I think I understand something as a truth only to be told I could not be further from the truth.

I'm not angry or even disappointed , if its Gods will I don't understand how to divide the word of God rightly then I'm out .

God concealed and hid a wonderful work He is doing in this world from my eyes, many are called but few are chosen.

I have been blessed to see and understand somethings from this site, the greatest thing I learned from B.t. is that our creator is not a monster but a loving creator.

Its obvious I dont get it and am not one of Gods elect but only one of the called who God is not going to choose.

Whatever God is going to do to me is going to happen and there is nothing I can do about it so I say why worry about it anyways.

God bless you all and I hope you all make it and become Gods elect.

Nobody told you you couldn't be further from the truth.  Do you honestly think anybody here understands all things?  But yes, you have to live these things to understand them with any depth.  Jesus doesn't dismiss those who don't know enough.  He dismisses those He never knew.  Your race is not over (unless you stop and disqualify yourself.).  Hang in there, but if you want to "teach", you will have to prove yourself.  Nobody is going to annoint you.   

[cheekie3]

Rick -

Are there any amongst us here on this Forum that can fully explain these Scriptures in Romans which appear to contradict in part about sin:

Romans 5:21
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:1
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Romans 6:2
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Romans 6:7
For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Romans 6:10
For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Romans 6:11
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:12
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Romans 6:13
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

To me, in some Scriptures, not just in Romans, we are not to allow sin to rule over us. I can attest to this, as He has made this possible for me. Yet I am not perfect and make mistakes from time to time, which are stated as sin in the Scriptures (although I still struggle somewhat with a mistake being a sin - as I believe He looks at our motivation in our hearts and minds to determine if it is sin). Yet there are many facets of my daily life that I would change, but it is not in my power or authority to do so.

The whole aspect of His Sovereignty is mind boggling when compared to us as individuals. Why was I blind for so long. Why was I deceived at all. Why have I suffered so much. Why are the parasites and psychopaths in control of our daily lives.   

Apart from our living and suffering which produces Godly characteristics (the nine fold Fruit of the Spirit) - which again I can attest He has worked out in my life - I find all the evil in this world with the lies, deception and wickedness too much for me to comprehend. I compare what we are told as 'News' to what I experience in my day to day life and there is a tremendous mismatch, as I find ordinary working people mostly ones that 'do no harm'; yet we are told of terrorists, criminals, psychopaths and wickedness daily in the 'News'.

I know that He knows that I do not want to sin and I want to obey His Blessed Commandments in Christ Jesus all day long; and I desire that all mankind do the same.

Hang on in there Rick.

Amen.

Kind Regards.

George.

[Dennis Vogel]

(CLV)  I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens: it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

(Rotherham)  And I gave my heart to seek and to search out, wisely, concerning all things which are done under the heavens,—the same, is the vexatious employment God hath given to the sons of men, to work toilsomely therein,

(YLT)  And I have given my heart to seek and to search out by wisdom concerning all that hath been done under the heavens. It is a sad travail God hath given to the sons of man to be humbled by it.

(ASV)  And I applied my heart to seek and to search out by wisdom concerning all that is done under heaven: it is a sore travail that God hath given to the sons of men to be exercised therewith.


The church has this 'feel good' philosophy. But like everything else they teach is wrong.

You cannot justify your sins by passing on the cause to sin. Sin is there to make you understand what a wretched man you are.

Rom 7:23  But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Rom 7:24  O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Rom 7:25  I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

[Kat]

Hi George, yes this world is filled with all manners of evil... but if you think about it, the evil that is exhibited in humans is what God designed, with limitations, for this world. I mean He could have made the human body to suffer or feel much more pain or not die so quick as we do, there is no doubt numerous other things He could have designed to afflict more pain and suffering on us. But that is not all that this life is about, to just make us suffer.

Isn't all this that He is doing, giving us such a broad range of experiences, so that every person can become unique individuals? I mean all our experiences form the character and even shape our personality... and as you said there is a tremendous difference in the ordinary working people and the reported terrorists, criminals, psychopaths and wickedness daily in the 'News'. So there you have this huge variance in the world of what people experience and therefore makes huge variance in who/what they become. Didn't Christ, God Himself, come in the world and suffer as we do, wasn't that sacrifice worth all that people have to endure in this life and redeem us all? Of course it was.

Isa 53:4  "But He endured the suffering that should have been ours, the pain that we should have borne. All the while we thought that His suffering was punishment sent by God.
v. 5  But because of our sins He was wounded, beaten because of the evil we did. We are healed by the punishment He suffered, made whole by the blows He received.

Now He is just working with a very few, but only by mercy and grace of His Spirit can we be overcomers. And we can be assured that God is able to redeem every single person, no matter how deranged, He can and will purge and cleanse everybody. Isn't this all for God's ultimate glory, what he is able to accomplish, in His greatness, not only will He save all mankind, but to make all that has been endured right in the end?

Rom 5:19  And just as all people were made sinners as the result of the disobedience of one man, in the same way they will all be put right with God as the result of the obedience of the one man.
v. 20  Law was introduced in order to increase wrongdoing; but where sin increased, God's grace increased much more.
v. 21  So then, just as sin ruled by means of death, so also God's grace rules by means of righteousness, leading us to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (GNB)

Sometimes we get so overwhelmed by what we see happening in this world that we lose sight of what God is accomplishing here. I trust that God's ultimate gift of a glorious life without end, for all that have ever lived, far exceeds anything that people suffer in this life.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Nelson Boils]

There lies the problem when one teaches or puts forth their own understanding of a scripture,when they are corrected,they take it the wrong way.

[rick]

Hi Dave,

I thought when God calls us we become a new creation, a new creature and so this new man cannot sin.

Now the old man can sin and does sin and for this cause we are held accountable but if the bible says those in Christ do not sin then it must be the new man who does not sin.

Thats my understandings.

God bless.

[rick]

There lies the problem when one teaches or puts forth their own understanding of a scripture,when they are corrected,they take it the wrong way.

God bless. 

[Dave in Tenn]

Hi Dave,

I thought when God calls us we become a new creation, a new creature and so this new man cannot sin.

Now the old man can sin and does sin and for this cause we are held accountable but if the bible says those in Christ do not sin then it must be the new man who does not sin.

Thats my understandings.

God bless.

You've got me chopped up into too many 'men'.  What scripture are you referring to with "the bible says those in Christ do not sin"?

[rick]

Rick -

Are there any amongst us here on this Forum that can fully explain these Scriptures in Romans which appear to contradict in part about sin:

Romans 5:21
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:1
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Romans 6:2
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Romans 6:7
For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Romans 6:10
For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Romans 6:11
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:12
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Romans 6:13
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

To me, in some Scriptures, not just in Romans, we are not to allow sin to rule over us. I can attest to this, as He has made this possible for me. Yet I am not perfect and make mistakes from time to time, which are stated as sin in the Scriptures (although I still struggle somewhat with a mistake being a sin - as I believe He looks at our motivation in our hearts and minds to determine if it is sin). Yet there are many facets of my daily life that I would change, but it is not in my power or authority to do so.

The whole aspect of His Sovereignty is mind boggling when compared to us as individuals. Why was I blind for so long. Why was I deceived at all. Why have I suffered so much. Why are the parasites and psychopaths in control of our daily lives.   

Apart from our living and suffering which produces Godly characteristics (the nine fold Fruit of the Spirit) - which again I can attest He has worked out in my life - I find all the evil in this world with the lies, deception and wickedness too much for me to comprehend. I compare what we are told as 'News' to what I experience in my day to day life and there is a tremendous mismatch, as I find ordinary working people mostly ones that 'do no harm'; yet we are told of terrorists, criminals, psychopaths and wickedness daily in the 'News'.

I know that He knows that I do not want to sin and I want to obey His Blessed Commandments in Christ Jesus all day long; and I desire that all mankind do the same.

Hang on in there Rick.

Amen.

Kind Regards.

George.

Hi George,

Thank you George and thanks for the scriptures you put up. It does seem that Rom. has a few contradictions but we know it doesn't.

God bless.