Ancient Hebrew and the Hebrew in modern Bibles?

[cheekie3]

All -

Does anyone know if it is true that the Hebrew in modern Bibles is not the original Hebrew Language - and that there are no modern day Bibles with the original Hebrew Language?

Warmest Regards.

George

[John from Kentucky]

All -

Does anyone know if it is true that the Hebrew in modern Bibles is not the original Hebrew Language - and that there are no modern day Bibles with the original Hebrew Language?

Warmest Regards.

George

No it is not true.  It is a lie put forth by you know who.  It is intended to put a seed of doubt in the mind of the spiritually simple minded.

For you see, if the Hebrew in modern bibles is not the original, then we must throw out the Old Testament, which is the bulk of the bible and one of the two witnesses.

All you need to do is to question if the Greek in modern bibles is the same as the original, and we can throw out all the Scriptures.

By the way, what is a modern bible?  Is it different from ancient bibles?  Maybe we should question all bibles?

Oh, what a tangled web we weave.  Instead of questioning individual Scriptural truths, let us question the entire bible and knock out all Scriptures.  What fun!

[lareli]

All -

Does anyone know if it is true that the Hebrew in modern Bibles is not the original Hebrew Language - and that there are no modern day Bibles with the original Hebrew Language?

Warmest Regards.

George

No it is not true.  It is a lie put forth by you know who.  It is intended to put a seed of doubt in the mind of the spiritually simple minded.

For you see, if the Hebrew in modern bibles is not the original, then we must throw out the Old Testament, which is the bulk of the bible and one of the two witnesses.

All you need to do is to question if the Greek in modern bibles is the same as the original, and we can throw out all the Scriptures.

By the way, what is a modern bible?  Is it different from ancient bibles?  Maybe we should question all bibles?

Oh, what a tangled web we weave.  Instead of questioning individual Scriptural truths, let us question the entire bible and knock out all Scriptures.  What fun!

You're afraid of the implications. That's not proof that something isn't true.

[Dennis Vogel]

I'm working on a video where Ray kind of talks about this. I hope to have it done in two or three days.

Here is the current link if you want to wade through it: http://bible-truths.com/audio/WS_10001.WMA

[John from Kentucky]

All -

Does anyone know if it is true that the Hebrew in modern Bibles is not the original Hebrew Language - and that there are no modern day Bibles with the original Hebrew Language?

Warmest Regards.

George

No it is not true.  It is a lie put forth by you know who.  It is intended to put a seed of doubt in the mind of the spiritually simple minded.

For you see, if the Hebrew in modern bibles is not the original, then we must throw out the Old Testament, which is the bulk of the bible and one of the two witnesses.

All you need to do is to question if the Greek in modern bibles is the same as the original, and we can throw out all the Scriptures.

By the way, what is a modern bible?  Is it different from ancient bibles?  Maybe we should question all bibles?

Oh, what a tangled web we weave.  Instead of questioning individual Scriptural truths, let us question the entire bible and knock out all Scriptures.  What fun!

You're afraid of the implications. That's not proof that something isn't true.

Because I have the Spirit of God, I am not afraid of anything.

The Spirit of God witnesses that the Scriptures are Truth.

Thus whenever anyone or thing implies that the Scriptures are not true, I know am in the presence of lies and the father of lies.

[lareli]

Interesting john. So the answer to George's question is 'no' because the Spirit of God has told you so? No actual proof, just your belief?

Is that how we determine 'truth'?

[John from Kentucky]

Interesting john. So the answer to George's question is 'no' because the Spirit of God has told you so? No actual proof, just your belief?

Is that how we determine 'truth'?

Congratulations largeli, you may be learning something.

Faith is proof for those who have and are led by the Spirit of God.

The Scriptures tell us we are saved by grace through faith.

And this little gem, "Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit says the LORD God Almighty."

[indianabob]

Hi Largeli,

It is similar to when an art expert testifies that a certain piece of art is genuine because the expert has studied and knows how the famous artist works and their specific traits or paint strokes. It just feels right.
Or when an expert in Shakespeare reads a play that is supposed to be one of the bards works. When you know the persons work as if it was your own, you just know.
The difference when it relates to God's work is that even the most simple person who has exercised the spirit of God in their lives for a period of time knows when God is the author. It is a gift that comes with the territory.
Just my opinion of course...
Indiana Bob

[lareli]

"For you see, if the Hebrew in modern bibles is not the original, then we must throw out the Old Testament, which is the bulk of the bible and one of the two witnesses."

I don't know who the "we" are when you say "we must throw out the Old Testament" but speaking for myself, I absolutely would not throw out the Old Testament even if it were shown that the Hebrew language that produced our bibles was not the original.. I don't know what kind of "faith" or what kind of spirit inside you would tell you that you must throw out the Bible based on anything .. if it was proven that the Bible was originally written in mandarin, or Swahili I'd still see the scriptures as true. Even if it came to light that we are all living in a virtual reality simulation and the fabric of our reality is turned upside down.. still the scriptures are true.

[cheekie3]

largeli -

Thank you for sharing this with us:

"For you see, if the Hebrew in modern bibles is not the original, then we must throw out the Old Testament, which is the bulk of the bible and one of the two witnesses."

I don't know who the "we" are when you say "we must throw out the Old Testament" but speaking for myself, I absolutely would not throw out the Old Testament even if it were shown that the Hebrew language that produced our bibles was not the original.. I don't know what kind of "faith" or what kind of spirit inside you would tell you that you must throw out the Bible based on anything .. if it was proven that the Bible was originally written in mandarin, or Swahili I'd still see the scriptures as true. Even if it came to light that we are all living in a virtual reality simulation and the fabric of our reality is turned upside down.. still the scriptures are true.

If I may, please let me clarify a little about the question I posed:

I did not state that the 'Old Testament' Scriptures are false or incorrect; as I was merely asking the question regarding the original Hebrew Language and what is modern day Hebrew, which some believe is derived from either the Aramaic or 'Yiddish'.

I simply asked the question about the original Hebrew Language and the Hebrew Language used in our Bibles.

I never ever stated that I was an expert in this area; nor did I say that the 'Holy Scriptures' were null and void.

I was trying to ascertain if anyone on this Forum actually knows how the modern day Hebrew was derived from the original Hebrew - if indeed, there are both the original and modern day Hebrew Languages.

For the record, I believe both the 'Old Testament' and 'New Testament' Scripturres are 'His Word'; and as 'John from Kentucky' pointed out - are 'His Two Witnesses'.

I have read and listened to Ray's Teachings on 'How we got our modern English Bibles', many, many, many times - and I do not recollect that Ray taught on this particular point.

If I am wrong about this, so be it; and I apologise if I have caused any confusion or unease to Forum Members.

I read and listen to both the 'Old Testament' and 'New Testament' Scriptures very regularly, and sometimes on a daily basis - as I find that is when 'His Word' in more alive in my inner spirit.

Warmest Regards.

George

[Dave in Tenn]

I've held off on answering primarily because I didn't understand the question--or more accurately, where it came from.  Frankly, despite the re-asking, I still don't. 

The Hebrew Old Testament scriptures have come down from well before the time of Christ.  Ray pointed out that the "script" used in some of the scripture was changed from one type of "writing" to another type (block lettering) and why that occurred...and that it occurred well before "modern times" or even before the Septuagint and the time of Christ.  Those were the scriptures in the Temple and in all the synagogues, and as far as I know, those are the scriptures still in use...both in the synagogues and in translating modern bibles. 

I don't know about "aramaic", but I am positive that "Yiddish" is a much more recent language (based on Hebrew) that developed during the "diaspora".  Hebrew as a widely-used spoken language died during those centuries, and remained dead until quite recently.  The OT scriptures, however, did NOT die and have come down to us intact from well before the time of Christ.  In Hebrew. 

It would surprise me if modern colloquial Hebrew wasn't influenced by the languages of the places Jews settled during the diaspora (Russian, Polish, German, English, etc).  It would surprise me further if modern formal Hebrew wasn't based on the vocabulary, "alphabet", syntax, and pronunciation of Old Testament Hebrew.  How "identical" they may be, I can't say.
Spoken language affects written language, and written language affects spoken language.

It's worth remembering that, just as the bible was not written in English, neither was it written in "modern" Hebrew.  "Modern" Hebrew is based on ancient Hebrew...not the other way around.  Our "modern bibles" are translations of either ancient Hebrew texts (not scraps, but entire scrolls) or of translations of other languages translated from the ancient Hebrew.

So...you asked "...is it true that the Hebrew in modern Bibles is not the original Hebrew Language - and that there are no modern day Bibles with the original Hebrew Language?" The answer is NO to the first part, and Almost Certainly Not  to the second part (I don't know ALL modern day Bibles), with the understanding that NO MODERN DAY BIBLE is in the original Hebrew Language EXCEPT FOR THE HEBREW SCRIPTURES, which are. 

Most all my print and 'virtual bibles' are in English from cover to cover save a few words here and there, though I have a Hebrew OT and a Greek NT, only one of which I can 'read' at a second-grade level.

[cheekie3]

Dave -

Thank you for sharing this:

I've held off on answering primarily because I didn't understand the question--or more accurately, where it came from.  Frankly, despite the re-asking, I still don't. 

The Hebrew Old Testament scriptures have come down from well before the time of Christ.  Ray pointed out that the "script" used in some of the scripture was changed from one type of "writing" to another type (block lettering) and why that occurred...and that it occurred well before "modern times" or even before the Septuagint and the time of Christ.  Those were the scriptures in the Temple and in all the synagogues, and as far as I know, those are the scriptures still in use...both in the synagogues and in translating modern bibles. 

I don't know about "aramaic", but I am positive that "Yiddish" is a much more recent language (based on Hebrew) that developed during the "diaspora".  Hebrew as a widely-used spoken language died during those centuries, and remained dead until quite recently.  The OT scriptures, however, did NOT die and have come down to us intact from well before the time of Christ.  In Hebrew. 

It would surprise me if modern colloquial Hebrew wasn't influenced by the languages of the places Jews settled during the diaspora (Russian, Polish, German, English, etc).  It would surprise me further if modern formal Hebrew wasn't based on the vocabulary, "alphabet", syntax, and pronunciation of Old Testament Hebrew.  How "identical" they may be, I can't say.
Spoken language affects written language, and written language affects spoken language.

It's worth remembering that, just as the bible was not written in English, neither was it written in "modern" Hebrew.  "Modern" Hebrew is based on ancient Hebrew...not the other way around.  Our "modern bibles" are translations of either ancient Hebrew texts (not scraps, but entire scrolls) or of translations of other languages translated from the ancient Hebrew.

So...you asked "...is it true that the Hebrew in modern Bibles is not the original Hebrew Language - and that there are no modern day Bibles with the original Hebrew Language?" The answer is NO to the first part, and Almost Certainly Not  to the second part (I don't know ALL modern day Bibles), with the understanding that NO MODERN DAY BIBLE is in the original Hebrew Language EXCEPT FOR THE HEBREW SCRIPTURES, which are. 

Most all my print and 'virtual bibles' are in English from cover to cover save a few words here and there, though I have a Hebrew OT and a Greek NT, only one of which I can 'read' at a second-grade level.

Warmest Regards.

George

[cheekie3]

All -

I stand corrected.

I have since discovered that there are Paleo (or Palaeo) Hebrew Bibles available today; and also Paleo (or Palaeo) Hebrew / English Bibles available whereby the Paleo (or Palaeo) Hebrew is on all the left hand pages reading from right to left, and the English is on all the right hand side pages.

Here is a link of the original Paleo (or Palaeo) Hebrew Alphabet, together with the modern Hebrew Alphabet:

http://www.jpost.com/sites/default/files/BloggersImages/822%5C/image/hebrew_alphabets.jpg

George