Why go to a Doctor?

[hillsbororiver]

A hypothetical friend of mine has a very sick wife and child, prone to infections and respiratory problems we have suggested numerous times that they should see a Doctor but the husband especially refuses to because God is the Doctor, controls all things and if it is His will that they be sick, even die it is His will and no Doctor or medicine  has the power to interfere, after all it just man made "science" these pills are poison and the Doctors are only men who are authorized and sanctioned by other men.

He claims he and his family have been sick before and they are still alive to talk about it so quit telling them what they need to do, God knows they are right and shunning man made medicine is showing his and his wife's faith is much stronger than all the lemmings who blindly follow the "traditions of men."

Can anyone point us to the scripture which says we must seek a Doctor when our families are very sick?

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated!

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[brothertoall]

Colossians 4:14 Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you.

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Joe I do believe that it is a very special gift of God that is given to a doctor.

bobby

[eggi]

I think this scripture says a lot about this question:

And Joseph commanded his servants the physicians to embalm his father: and the physicians embalmed Israel. (Genesis 50:2 KJV)

Also, Paul told Timothy to drink some wine for his health's sake. He also told the centurion and the soldiers to eat for their health. What doctors do is to prescribe medication, which is sometimes effective against diseases and health problems. Why didn't Paul just tell Timothy and the soldiers to not do anything about it?

And while the day was coming on, Paul besought them all to take meat, saying, This day is the fourteenth day that ye have tarried and continued fasting, having taken nothing. Wherefore I pray you to take some meat: for this is for your health: for there shall not an hair fall from the head of any of you. (Act 27:33-34 KJV)

Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. (1Ti 5:23 KJV)

However, there are, as we know, many references to healing without medication too. Paul healed by praying too:

And it came to pass, that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever and of a bloody flux: to whom Paul entered in, and prayed, and laid his hands on him, and healed him. (Act 28:8 KJV)

But Paul also traveled with a physician, and even though Paul prayed, it is very likely that Luke did all he could to help:

Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you. (Col 4:14 KJV)

So, which one is it? Medicine or praying?
My understanding is that the lesson we can learn is that physical health problems have spiritual causes too. I see nothing wrong with consulting a doctor, after all, it's all up to God if treatment works. He is the ultimate doctor, and we can be thankful only to Him. It too, is something to be received with thanksgiving:

For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. (1Ti 4:5 KJV)

Even if bodily exercise (or medicine) is good (not bad, or a lack of faith), the spiritual health is good for all things:

For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come. (1Ti 4:8 KJV)

There is nothing wrong with being in good health (also by medicinal aid), but it's more important to be prospering in spirit:

Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth. (3Jo 1:2 KJV)

[hillsbororiver]

Colossians 4:14 Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you.

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Joe I do believe that it is a very special gift of God that is given to a doctor.

bobby

Yes, but where does scripture say we should seek medical advice? Doesn't this show more faith in man made science or tradition than it shows trust in God?

His Peace and Wisdom to you.

Joe

[hillsbororiver]

I think this scripture says a lot about this question:

And Joseph commanded his servants the physicians to embalm his father: and the physicians embalmed Israel. (Genesis 50:2 KJV)

See the guy is already dead, what good are the physicians?

Also, Paul told Timothy to drink some wine for his health's sake. He also told the centurion and the soldiers to eat for their health. What doctors do is to prescribe medication, which is sometimes effective against diseases and health problems. Why didn't Paul just tell Timothy and the soldiers to not do anything about it?

So then should this family drink some wine and forget about it? Doctors prescribe medicine and people still die.

And while the day was coming on, Paul besought them all to take meat, saying, This day is the fourteenth day that ye have tarried and continued fasting, having taken nothing. Wherefore I pray you to take some meat: for this is for your health: for there shall not an hair fall from the head of any of you. (Act 27:33-34 KJV)

They eat three meals a day. They feel the rest is between them and God.

Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. (1Ti 5:23 KJV)

Even his 5 year old?

However, there are, as we know, many references to healing without medication too. Paul healed by praying too:

And it came to pass, that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever and of a bloody flux: to whom Paul entered in, and prayed, and laid his hands on him, and healed him. (Act 28:8 KJV)

This is what they believe too, all healing comes from God and anything else is man made superstition and tradition.

But Paul also traveled with a physician, and even though Paul prayed, it is very likely that Luke did all he could to help:

But where does god command us to go to a Doctor?

Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you. (Col 4:14 KJV)

So, which one is it? Medicine or praying?
My understanding is that the lesson we can learn is that physical health problems have spiritual causes too. I see nothing wrong with consulting a doctor, after all, it's all up to God if treatment works. He is the ultimate doctor, and we can be thankful only to Him. It too, is something to be received with thanksgiving:

For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. (1Ti 4:5 KJV)

Even if bodily exercise (or medicine) is good (not bad, or a lack of faith), the spiritual health is good for all things:

For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come. (1Ti 4:8 KJV)

There is nothing wrong with being in good health (also by medicinal aid), but it's more important to be prospering in spirit:

Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth. (3Jo 1:2 KJV)

Thank you Eirik,

Joe

[josh]

Joe.

First, we know that God "works ALL THINGS (including modern medicine) after the counself of His own will...

Ephesians 1:11
"...also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose
who works all things after the counsel of His will..."

Secondly, we know that God not only "works ALL THINGS (including modern medicine) after the counself of His own will... but He "causes ALL THINGS (including modern medicine) to work together (not only according to His purpose, but also..." FOR GOOD to those WHO LOVE GOD.

"Romans 8:28
"And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose."

When we recognize that ALL IS OF GOD (2 Corinthians 5:18, 1 Corinthians 11:12)  we are no longer forced to choose between going to the doctor or "having faith."

The question then becomes is it possible to go to the doctor and still have faith. I believe, according to the scriptures, that the answer is yes.

First we must understand that THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD, and God uses people (even doctors) "to will and to act according to his good purpose.' (Phil. 2:13)

Exodus 15:11
"Who is like You among the gods, O LORD?
Who is like You, majestic in holiness,
Awesome in praises, working wonders?

Deuteronomy 3:24
'O Lord GOD, You have begun to show Your servant Your greatness and Your strong hand; for what god is there in heaven or on earth who can do such works and mighty acts as Yours?

1 Kings 8:23
He said, "O LORD, the God of Israel, there is no God like You in heaven above or on earth beneath, keeping covenant and showing lovingkindness to Your servants who walk before You with all their heart,

I believe that the important thing is recognizing that God is God, and doctors/medicine are not gods, but untensils in God's hands.

In everything (not just in illness, but it EVERYTHING) we do not have another god, we do not follow another god, we do not try to make another god.

Exodus 20:23
'You shall not make other gods besides Me; gods of silver or gods of gold, you shall not make for yourselves.

Exodus 20:2-4
I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth
beneath or in the water under the earth

Deuteronomy 6:14
You shall not follow other gods, any of the gods of the peoples who surround you

Jeremiah 25:6
and do not go after other gods to serve them and to worship them, and do not provoke Me to anger with the work of your hands, and I will do you no harm.'

In the end we know, to the pure ALL THINGS (even doctors and medicine) are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure.

Titus 1:14-16
and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the commands of those who reject the truth. To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.

Last but not least, Paul's charge on how those who are spiritually strong should interact with those who are spiritually weak.

Romans 14:1-4, 13-18, 22-23
Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

Grace and Peace
Josh

[gmik]

Great scriptures everyone.

Charlie, that sealed it for me.

gena

[Deborah-Leigh]

And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning ALL THINGS that are done under heaven; this experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to HUMBLE THEM BY IT. Ecc 1 : 13

Going to the Doctor and getting the wrong medicine that kills your son. True story. Going to the Doctor and getting the wrong operation and coming out paralysed. True story. Going to the Lawyer and getting no justice from his alleged expertise. Going to the gym and still getting the heart attack that shouldn't have happened. Popping all the vitamins and living healthy and still getting cancer and a death warrant while others who live in abuse of their lungs and bodies live to 90!

So what are you going to do? Go in defence and ask where does God say we have to go to school, get a driving licence, go to the dentist get that abyss removed and get a medical check up to keep in the illusion that eating right will add to our longevity. 

As you have said on one of my threads, we can not add one iota to our lives and that is so. We can also become of unsound mind and spiral down into defiance against the ways of God and go on strike....and stop giving our hearts to seek and search out wisdom concerning All Things. Switch off the TV. Don't go to school, don't learn, don't think....and give up. There is a scripture that says do not faint in well doing.....

No where in the scripture does it say that the Doctor is to be placed above God. In fact here is one to discourage this. 2 Chron 16 : 12,13 In the thirty-ninth year of his reign, Asa developed a serious foot disease. Even when the disease became life threatening, he did not seek the Lord's help HE DID NOT SEEK THE LORD'S HELP, but sought help ONLY  from his physicians. So he died....

Proverbs 3 : 6 In ALL YOUR WAYS, know, recognize, and acknowledge HIM, and HE will direct and make straight and plain your paths. 7. Be not wise in your own eyes;

Proverbs 11 : 14 Where no wise guidance is, the people fall, but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Who is to say that wise counsel is not from a Doctor, Dentist, or Driving instructor?

The key is acknowledge HIM and live knowing that his plan and purpose is to humble you which is the process by which God brings us into His Glory.

This experience of evil that God has given to humanity to humble us all, is when the Doctor fails, when the Lawyer looses, when the Dentist has to pull out that tooth and when we crash the car on the pavement avoiding the drunken driver. That's life. Be content. ......patient under trial, vigilant for the return of Christ who will lead us to rest when He comes again.

On a lighter note:

There was a massive storm. It was so huge that the city had to be urgently evacuated. As the police came through the streets it stopped at Harold's door and told him to get in as they would take him safely to higher ground. Oh no said Harold. God will provide. I am sitting tight. As the waters from the storm started to rise up Harold had to go up stairs to avoid being swept away by the swelling tides flooding his house. As he got to the balcony of his second floor, a police speed boat passé by and seeing him, returned to rescue him. Oh no, shouted Harold to his rescuers. God will provide, so he stayed on the balcony as the speed boat pulled away. Soon Harold had to climb onto the roof as the water became a huge tidal wave and as he clung to the chimney a Helicopter spotted him and dropped him a rope to climb to safety. Oh no yelled Harold. God will provide! The Helicopter flew away as a huge wave swallowed Harold in its tide. Harold couldn't swim.
Once resurrected, Jesus asked Harold what he had done with his life and why it was so short. Harold exclaimed in indignation, But Lord YOU SAID YOU would provide and I trusted You! To which Jesus gently answered, My Son, I sent you the Police car, the boat and the Helicopter....and you still did not believe......

Joe, in short, I believe we chose our consequences and God writes our choices. Our consequences are not random but preordained by God.  We have to come to the point where we see God everywhere and not just here or there.

There are some who do not trust to believe in medicine and others who do not trust in God to heal them. Still others defy God to heal them their way with full regalia of God being summoned to heal with pomp and ceremony of angelic manifestations, and not Gods way which may be via a medical science that He is the author of. All is of God. The purpose is to humble us to see it and eventually come to recognise and acknowledge Him as Sovereign.

Peace to you

Arcturus

[eggi]

Wonderful post Arcturus!

We have to come to the point where we see God everywhere and not just here or there.

I could see this in your post!
God bless you,
Eirik

[DWIGHT]

Arcturus,

That was absolutely wonderful!!!  Bravo!!

Dwight

[gmik]

I liked the post too Arcturus.

We went thru a period where we felt God would heal us, so my hubby & I threw away our pills and glasses.  Rather sheepishly a few days later we had to reorder everything!! Ah the vanity of youth.

All is of God.  Pray, believe, trust, hope, learn whether you see a Dr. or not.  Dr. are not the enemy.  Where did the knowledge to invent & discover come from.....??  God of course.  He reveals things in His time..He will let scientists discover the cure for cancer when it is time.

I go to doctors and I also pray for healing.  I think they work together fine.

love,
gena

[hillsbororiver]

I want to thank everyone for their heartfelt answers and to see that we can be in agreement on the healthy benefits of visiting the Doctor even though there are no direct commands to do so scripturally, it is obviously implied but not in a clear "Thou shalt" manner.

Some institutions or traditions of man and some degrees or certificates are for our benefit as we experience this earthly journey. There are man made (yet God inspired) customs that protect us and our children and that attempt to protect the weak from the (predator type) strong as well.

I must now say that my "hypothetical friend" was just that, hypothetical. The situation I described was for illustrative purposes.

The following are a couple of articles dealing with things we all can do to be healthier and more prosperous in this life (God willing).

  Go for Regular Health and Medical Check-Ups

Regardless of busy schedule, we should undergo regular medical check-ups to detect or prevent illnesses and diseases.
Almost all of us are guilty, in one way or another, of neglecting our health even if we don't intend to. Stressed-out moms and dads usually spend long working hours in the office to finance their kid's education and pay for bills. On the other hand, there are model teens who forgo the 'luxury' of sleeping eight hours a night just to finish school papers and projects. All forms of compromise we make, such as insufficient sleep and fatty diet, have subsequent effects in our health. In our quest for achieving a good life, we often sacrifice our health and medical condition. The overwhelming pressure brought about by work, school, and personal concerns can very well make us oblivious of symptoms of serious illness or disease. Most of the time, people learn about their troublesome health and medical condition, like cancer and stroke, when it's already too late to be treated.

No matter how busy we are, health and medical experts say we should always subject ourselves to regular check-ups. It is so normal for us to visit the doctor only when we feel there's something wrong. But the thing is, not all symptoms of deadly illnesses can easily be felt and seen. For instance, a woman who has breast cancer may never notice the small lump in her right breast until she takes some time to self-assess her breasts. We may think we're perfectly fine until we suddenly breakdown in a middle of the day and find out we're not in tip-top shape after all. Younger people need to undergo general medical checkups with special attention on blood pressure or blood sugar (to prevent on-set of heart diseases and diabetes). Those belonging to the senior citizen-bracket should go for check-ups that can detect certain kinds of cancer.

Aside from general health and medical check-ups, women have to undergo pap smear annually to prevent cervical cancer or diseases related to reproductive system. It is also a must for women in their forties to subject themselves to mammogram. Breast self-checkup every month would suffice for younger women. Pregnant and lactating mothers also have to undergo pre and post natal checkups. Health and medical experts also advice parents to bring their children to the doctor for necessary immunization and proper health care. Since regular health checkups is indispensable, we should see to it that we have a family doctor. A family doctor is the one to hold all the medical records for future reference.

For more valuable information on Health and Medical, please visit http://www.healthseek.info


Top 10 Marriage Myths
By David Popenoe


The most recent U.S. Census figures confirm what most everyone already knows — divorce rates, indeed, are on the rise.
With nearly half of all marriages ending in divorce, many couples are starting to re-evaluate their relationships.

But before you start any heady analysis, it's important to know the facts from the myths when it comes to marriage:

Marriage Myth 1: Marriage benefits men much more than women.

Fact: Contrary to earlier and widely publicized reports, recent research finds men and women to benefit about equally from marriage, although in different ways. Both men and women live longer, happier, healthier and wealthier lives when they are married. Husbands typically gain greater health benefits, while wives gain greater financial advantages.

Marriage Myth 2: Having children typically brings a married couple closer together and increases marital happiness.

Fact: Many studies have shown that the arrival of the first baby commonly has the effect of pushing the mother and father farther apart, and bringing stress to the marriage. However, couples with children have a slightly lower rate of divorce than childless couples.

Marriage Myth 3: The keys to long-term marital success are good luck and romantic love.

Fact: Rather than luck and love, the most common reasons couples give for their long-term marital success are commitment and companionship. They define their marriage as a creation that has taken hard work, dedication and commitment (to each other and to the institution of marriage). The happiest couples are friends who share lives and are compatible in interests and values.

Marriage Myth 4: The more educated a woman becomes, the lower are her chances of getting married.

Fact: A recent study based on marriage rates in the mid-1990s concluded that today's women college graduates are more likely to marry than their non-college peers, despite their older age at first marriage. This is a change from the past, when women with more education were less likely to marry.

Marriage Myth 5: Couples who live together before marriage, and are thus able to test how well suited they are for each other, have more satisfying and longer-lasting marriages than couples who do not.

Fact: Many studies have found that those who live together before marriage have less satisfying marriages and a considerably higher chance of eventually breaking up. One reason is that people who cohabit may be more skittish of commitment and more likely to call it quits when problems arise. But in addition, the very act of living together may lead to attitudes that make happy marriages more difficult. The findings of one recent study, for example, suggest "there may be less motivation for cohabiting partners to develop their conflict resolution and support skills." (One important exception: Cohabiting couples who are already planning to marry each other in the near future have just as good a chance at staying together as couples who don't live together before marriage).

Marriage Myth 6: People can't be expected to stay in a marriage for a lifetime as they did in the past because we live so much longer today.

Fact: Unless our comparison goes back a hundred years, there is no basis for this belief. The enormous increase in longevity is due mainly to a steep reduction in infant mortality. And while adults today can expect to live a little longer than their grandparents, they also marry at a later age. The life span of a typical, divorce-free marriage, therefore, has not changed much in the past 50 years. Also, many couples call it quits long before they get to a significant anniversary: Half of all divorces take place by the seventh year of a marriage.

Marriage Myth 7: Marrying puts a woman at greater risk of domestic violence than if she remains single.

Fact: Contrary to the proposition that for men "a marriage license is a hitting license," a large body of research shows that being unmarried — and especially living with a man outside of marriage — is associated with a considerably higher risk of domestic violence for women. One reason for this finding is that married women may significantly underreport domestic violence. Further, women are less likely to marry and more likely to divorce a man who is violent. Yet it is probably also the case that married men are less likely to commit domestic violence because they are more invested in their wives' well-being, and more integrated into the extended family and community. These social forces seem to help check men's violent behavior.

Marriage Myth 8: Married people have less satisfying sex lives, and less sex, than single people.

Fact: According to a large-scale national study, married people have both more and better sex than do their unmarried counterparts. Not only do they have sex more often but they enjoy it more, both physically and emotionally.

Marriage Myth 9: Cohabitation is just like marriage, but without "the piece of paper."

Fact: Cohabitation typically does not bring the benefits — in physical health, wealth and emotional wellbeing — that marriage does. In terms of these benefits, cohabitants in the United States more closely resemble singles than married couples. This is due, in part, to the fact that cohabitants tend not to be as committed as married couples, and they are more oriented toward their own personal autonomy and less to the well-being of their partner.

Marriage Myth 10: Because of the high divorce rate, which weeds out the unhappy marriages, people who stay married have happier marriages than people did in the past when everyone stuck it out, no matter how bad the marriage.

Fact: According to what people have reported in several large national surveys, the general level of happiness in marriages has not increased and probably has declined slightly. Some studies have found in recent marriages, compared to those of 20 or 30 years ago, significantly more work-related stress, more marital conflict and less marital interaction.

Copyright 2002 by David Popenoe, the National Marriage Project at Rutgers University, New Brunswick, N.J.

David Popenoe is professor of sociology at Rutgers University, where he is also co-director of the National Marriage Project and former social and behavioral sciences dean. He specializes in the study of family and community life in modern societies and is the author or editor of nine books. His most recent books are Life Without Father: Compelling New Evidence That Fatherhood and Marriage Are Indispensable for the Good of Children and Society and Promises to Keep: Decline and Renewal of Marriage in America.

[gmik]

Good Stuff Joe.

Here is a true saying:    EVERY WOMAN ever born has DREAMED of her wedding day.  Simple or grand we all dreamed about OUR day!!!  And Every woman wants one!!!!

Has nothing to do spiritually, politicallly, tax breaks, insurance etc etc.  We all want to be a princess at least once

They may not say so to their significant other, but I believe it is so.

gena

[Brett]

Hello,

"Why go to a doctor?" Well, I am not expert Bible and me not pure English. But I do feel like I better to share with you from what is in my mind. Most people do not believe God and hate doctors and some people trust God and go to doctors for to seek God's guideance. Like Asa in 2 Chron. 16:12, he died of disease, he refused to ask Lord for help but trust doctors more than God. But before that, Asa WAS faithul to God for years then he stoped trust God and hated Lord. Not because Asa went to doctors but because he rebel against God other things. Anyway, people who don't go doctors because they trusted God are STILL DIE. Don't they want to stay alive and continuing overcomer/judgment-house of God before death? And other, people who trust God and go to doctors, did saved their lives as well.

Doctors are NOT gauranteed to cure you. Like aids, cancer, etc.

The person who has disease heart and can die in days but doctor found 'donate' body who died of accident or something and this body had healthy heart can help other person's heart who has disease. So, he can choose to reject new heart and let it die or choose new heart and save his life. It is up to him. I don't see anywhere of against doctors in the scriptures.

Two women in Luke and Mark about they were spent all their money to visit doctors and never healed them, they seeked Jesus to heal them and it did heal them well. Jesus never criticized women or anyone who visit doctors.

Also, Luke was doctor with Paul as in Col. 4:14. Let's consider this, Paul and his friends (include Luke), I am sure that Paul or friends who were sick. Was Luke do nothing to care for them? Yes, they do pray to God but can't also Luke treat something medicine to help them feel better? And interesting, where did Paul learn about sip of wine can help stomach problem in 1 Tim. 5:23? Could be learned from doctor Luke?

And in Luke 5:31 about if flesh healthy then it need not doctor but only sick. Yes, it is parable, Jesus spoke about flesh who need doctors (sick) and then He had point about spiritual need in Luke 5:32 "I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." So, Luke 5:31 focus of flesh and 5:32 focus of spiritual. Jesus spoke like COMMON flesh sick need doctor and COMMON spiritual sick need Savior. Of course, all spiritual are SICK just like Rom. 3:23 "All have SINNED". I don't see any reason wrong to go doctors. Someone negative about doctors like the sick person get medicine still die and surgery end up paralysis. BUT there are positive, too. There are lots of good things that medicine help sick people and surgery went well. So, it is still both negative and positive treatment, something can heal and can't heal, feel better and never feel better. It is really up to God. Just like you buy car from good deal or bad deal.

Sometimes people trust God and go to doctor but not cure, and other people who don't trust God or hate God and go to doctor get cure. And ALSO, people trust God and go to doctor get cure, and other people who hate God and go to doctor but not cure. See the difference? I had some friends who never go to doctor and had very sick, I suggest him to go but he said no. That is fine with me, I respected them. But even, sometimes I wondered if that is mean they want to SUICIDE .

What will you do if your hand cut off by accident? No doctor? Let your bleed out till death? Or if you break your leg bone and can sometime lead you to death, go doctor or not? Your decide. I hope it's not suicide as most people do that I know of. Likewise, if your heart has disease and the doctor found new heart that could save your life? Yes, after replace hearts in history have died AND still others have survive as well.

The scriptures do not have any concerning of 'go to a doctor'. I remember somewhere in scripture about if person neglect his body's need to take care are not please God. I can't remember where is at or maybe not?

Do I go to doctor? Yes, of course. There are some doctors can cure my illness and there are some doctors couldn't cure my other illness. I do have both, cure and not cure. This is all God's will. I do want to live more so I can do more to overcomer with God's help if He will. I remember well in scriptures about blind men that Jesus healed them many times but one thing He spit dirt to become mud and put man's eyes and told him "GO" wash in the pool of Siloam in John 9. Hmmm, seem like God can heal you right there instead of go to doctor or hospital and other God tell you "GO" to the doctor. Jesus healed blind men and other time, Jesus told like 'do something yourself' as blind man to wash the mud on his eyes in pool. This man needed 'do something' to go pool to wash his eyes to be able see. Still, other blind men did NOT 'do something' but Jesus healed them right there. Interesting. If person not want go doctor but pray, pray and pray and still not cure his illness, could be God's answer is "GO" to doctor and see if God has something can help you.

I know some people cannot afford to spend all their money but God still sometimes bring doctors to treat them without pay! I know one hospital for FREE all children who have CP, spine disease and their parent do not have much money. The hospital do surgery, treating children the best they can be. Wow! Bless their hearts! My son (age 10) went to that hospital for surgery both of his legs three days ago, he has mild cp and was some difficult to walk so it need to treat so he can walk better when he grow up, hopefully. We did not pay ONE PENNY to hospital! It's was so grateful. Also, it tears my eyes and overwhelming when I see many kids are deep suffers that need help and that hospital are free for them (of course, by charity giving and United Way.). Thank to Lord! For He has big heart from them. Ummmm.... well I admitted, I saw a little girl (age 9) has very skinny body and with metal around her head with screws on round her head and with rope to hold her head up for to straight her spine up so she could walk because she has weakness or fragile spine.  When I saw first saw her with beatiful eyes and big smile like happy girl and said "Hi". She lives there and she goes to school in that hospital. My son chatted with her like a good friend. My gosh, I hold my tear till I came home to cry . I hate to cry myself . I had not cry for long time, but I guess that girl got me .

Good posts from the very first and the last one, Joe!

Brett

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Joe

It is interesting that although we live in times some 2000 years after Jesus walked on the earth we have still not advanced ahead of the Bible that remains topical and applicable. It is present tense, direct from God to us, personal and not stuck in past time. God's word is alive now for us. It is Gods breath.

Your post highlights this fact for me. Even though we do not find any scripture to advise us how to not cross a red robot or that we should only get our drivers licence at a certain age, we can still rely on the fundamentals, the foundational teaching guidelines of the scripture that is just as applicable today as it was in the times of Jesus.

I see that you reveal a technique of comprehension that encourages us all to apply the guiding principles of God's inspired word. As you show with your question about whether or not scripture says we should or should not go to a Doctor, this can also be applied to any questions or to any and all topics under discussion or in life's manifold and multiple circumstances. For everything, for every subject under the sun, God's word remains for us as Timothy  3 : 16 ....God breathed, given by HIS inspiration, profitable for instruction, reproof and conviction of sin, for correction of error and discipline in obedience, and for training in righteousness in holy living, in conformity to God's will in thought, purpose and action. 17 So that the man of God may be complete and proficient, well fitted and thoroughly equipped for every good work.

We need not look to man for our direction but to God's word to find the truth that  points to the narrow way, the least popular way, and the way that goes against our flesh to enter by. This in itself is a guiding principle. Luke 13 : 24 Strive to enter by the narrow door, force yourselves through it for many, I tell you will try to enter and will not be able.

With Gods word as our flagship, we can  proclaim as King David once did Psalms 119 : 105 Your Word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path.
Proverbs  6 : 23 For the commandment is a lamp, and the whole teaching of the law is light, and reproofs of discipline are the way of life.

....and we know that Jesus is The Way,  The Truth and The Life. John 14 : 6

This word of God that Christ IS, and IS NOW and EVER WILL BE PREEMINANT, must surely have inherent life  for HE is God's breath!  GOD has exalted HIS Word above all things His Name and His Word. Psalm 138:2
WE KNOW WHO THIS IS!

The principles of God's timeless words are our inspiration...indeed the breath of life of HIS Spirit from which we draw our own lives to sustain us in fellowship, in harmony, in one accord not being our accord according to our motives or worldly accord according to indulgent conveniences, but the one accord being CHRIST who laying His life down gives us His Spirit today as our mutually life giving nourishment in the limbs of the vine branches growing in this forum.

The principles of scripture hold true for anything. Our final authority. Our benchmark of hope and trust and dependence on Christ's own ways, His proven truths and His inherent life.

Bret I enjoyed reading your post. Dwight and Eirik, thank you for your enthusiasm and joy shining through and Gena, yes indeed, little girls love a wedding plan and the big one is still up ahead the bride and the Lamb of God!

Peace to you

Arcturus

 

[hillsbororiver]

Dear Gena, Brett & Arcturus,

Thank you all for your responses, I do believe the Lord gave us the ability to reason and compare and as we go further into this journey with Him He grants us discernment to judge the things we are given to deal with in this life.

His Peace and Wisdom to you & thanks again,

Joe 

[beverley]

Hi everyone;

We have to come to the point where we see God everywhere and not just here or there.

from Arcturus

This quote is so true.....I believe that healing begins with eating the right foods...Foods that heal, we are what we eat..Do we really think that we can eat anything and our bodies not pay for it?  We all should be doing more research on the foods that we eat...Did you know that coconutoil is a super food..It will clean out your arteries, it is a number 1 liver cleaner,,,the water of a coconut is almost identical to our blood plasma..that alone is awesome...The coconutoil feeds the brain...our brain is 60% fat,,nobody is feeding their brain...and when you don't feed the brain, your body goes haywire...brakes down....the last four decades has been a high carb, low fat diet...nobodys brain is being fed on that...wonder why there is so much depression, so many people on ritalin..add, feed the brain, and your body starts to heal.....cod liver oil feeds the brain also, but if your in a sunny hot place in winter, then you don't need cod liver oil, just the sun....sun never causes cancer, its what we put on our skin that causes cancer,,if you can't eat it, don't put it on your skin...The only thing i put on my two girls and i is the coconutoil....The coconutoil is anti-viral, antibacterial and anti-fungal.... coconutoil is number 1 for thyroid problems, coconutoil will boast your immune system so high, you won't be getting colds and flu's...The coconutoil is very high in Lauric Acid, which by the way is also in a mothers breast milk, and the only other place to find Lauric Acid is in Palm Kernel oil...Those are the only three places in the world that have Lauric Acid...Coconut oil is high in medium-chain fatty acids, which kill bacteria, viruses, fungi, and parasites that cause a whole host of illnesses...ex...ear infections (just put a little coconutoil in about 6-8 times in the day and will be gone by next day) Throat and sinus infections, pneumonia, rheumatic fever, food poisoning, influenza, measles ,herpes ,mononucleosis ,hepatitis C, aids, sars, chronic fatigue syndrome, epstein-barr virus, leukemia virus, urinary tract infections,,these are but a very few of what coconutoil does....you can read about it on my site,,,www.cleanseme.com   ...... I believe that we should be looking at what we eat.....The pharmaceutical companies don't want you to know about the coconutoil,,as they can't patent the coconut therefore they can't make money on it...They know what the coconutoil does for people...but they still research the coconutoil..The coconutoil will clean out your arteries, liver cleaner, the only detox you should do is on the coconutoil...But there is so much on the coconutoil..go to my site and do your own research....www.cleanseme.com    also another site is www.mercola.com   research on milk, grains, soy, oils..........well I've went on and on so I'll stop for now,,but about the doctors, they are trained by the pharmaceutical companies, therefore i do not trust them,,that's just the times we are living in,, sickness is big business,,,by the way, the non-profit cancer society has so much money, they have to donate money themselves,,they are so corrupted its really sicking....             Beverley/Canada        p.s.   My girls and i don't do doctors, unless we should happen to break a bone or need stitches,,but thats it.......

[sansmile]

Hi Beverley,

Have you been talking to Mary in London (my sis in law).? We have just received a big batch of coconut oil and have started to introduce it too our diet. Only starting recently so waiting to see any benefits. I have recently developed psoriasis ( through stress) and with prayer and this oil i will wait too see if it helps it. Although, I believe only Jesus heals, but can we give Him a helping hand?

GBU Sandie

[beverley]

Hi Sandie...

Yes I know Mary, I introduced her to the coconutoil.......I sending her to coconutbooks and some coconut vinger and skin butters this Weds or Thurs......As for your psoriasis, rub the coconutoil on it, keep it moist with the coconutoil until it heals up.....As you said "Although, I believe only Jesus heals, but can we give Him a helping hand?"  well, God created everything, He created the coconutoil.....I believe that God also heals through the food that we eat....   But we also can destroy our bodies by what we eat.. ....God leads us in the direction to go....Talks about Palms in the bible. Psalms 92:12    The righteous6662 shall flourish6524 like the palm tree:8558 he shall grow7685 like a cedar730 in Lebanon.3844 ...says alot more about Palms.......(.the coconutoil does so much,  As a food, it is nutrituous, safe and can be taken almost ad libitum..It provides energy and nutrition not only by itself but also by promoting the absorption of other foods particulary fat-soluble vitamins (A,D,E, and K) and minerals (calcium, magnesium, iron).  At the same time, it is a powerful drug that is non-toxic. It protects the body from infectious agents (viruses, bacteria, yeasts, fungi, protozoa, worms) it can kill them. In other words, it is an antibiotic with the widest spectrum of action of all antipathogens. And it causes no harmful side effects. No resistance against it has been shown to develop...And this isn't alll---it's just the beginning..Coconut oil is an immunoregulator, a defense regulator, and a function regulator..It makes the body work better, metabolize better, defend better, heal better.. )quote taken from the coconutcures book, by Bruce Fife.....Beverley   ..What a gift from God....

[sansmile]

Beverley,

What a small world, but isn't (suppose those on the west coasts ....USA, CANADA ETC) would say "ain't" it a small world. He pulls together His church, every limb.

God bless
Sandie