another NOOB question :)

[lilitalienboi16]

I have a question. I read somewhere one time in Rays article that he said it was a shock to him to find out that KING DAVID DID NOT HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT IN HIM. Now my question is, Did any of the OLD TESTIMENT people we read about have the HOLY SPIRIT IN THEM? Or was the holy spirit only revealed to the world after Jesus died and given to His disciples first?

Also i have another question, How does one know if he has the holy spirit in them? Shouldn't the HOLY SPIRIT be SPEAKING TRUTH ALWAYS? So how can so many people be claiming to be filled with the holy spirit and be Christians yet believe so many contrary doctrines (Contrary to the bible that is) and be all teaching different things? Shouldn't all those filled with the HOLY SPIRIT have the MIND OF CHRIST?

I'm just really starting to wonder, because i don't know if i have the HOLY SPIRIT because i havn't been through as much as any of you guys, and im still a pretty wicked and discusting person, terribly sinful and i hate myself for it but thats another story, so i don't know if i have the holy spirit or not.. have i recieved it yet? I mean i fully believe, im learning, im growing slowly but surely im tugging along and yea i stumble and fall over and roll back but then i try and get back up again and move on... So do i have the holy spirit? Can i be confident in knowing what i learn is revealed to me BY GOD, or am i still not filled with it yet because i am not matured?

Sorry for the long winded and probably repetative post... Thanks though for any answers

God bless you all

Alex

[nightmare sasuke]

I have a question. I read somewhere one time in Rays article that he said it was a shock to him to find out that KING DAVID DID NOT HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT IN HIM.

Wait...wait...wait... Did you read him correctly? I'm pretty sure David and all the Saints did have the Holy Spirit in them.

[nightmare sasuke]

I'm just really starting to wonder, because i don't know if i have the HOLY SPIRIT because i havn't been through as much as any of you guys, and im still a pretty wicked and discusting person, terribly sinful and i hate myself for it but thats another story, so i don't know if i have the holy spirit or not.. have i recieved it yet?

There are times I wonder if I have the Holy Spirit. However, if God has led you to come to his Truths, I'd say you have the Holy Spirit. But it takes a while to understand what He is telling you. However it's not for me to say, but God.

[lilitalienboi16]

Is there anyway to know when we have teh holy spirit from scripture? Is it just by believing in Christ?

And yes im pretty sure i was correct in what i read. I could be wrong.. but i doubt it, i recall reading it like two times because i thought i misread it, but then again i could have read it wrong 2 times lol..

Someone can correct me if they know.

[Craig]

O.K,

This is just my opinion, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, or if I contradict Ray.

If a person would tell me he is one of the chosen, or if I started to believe I was myself, then I would say that I/they are not the chosen.

Being the chosen of God is to be an overcomer, and overcoming is a life-long process.  We will know if we are chosen when we awaken at the first ressurection and not until.  I believe even in Paul's writings he doesn't  claim to be the chosen, he is hopeful and says he has done all he can do to overcome, and finish the race.

The spirit of God is in all of us, ALL.  I liken it to an old-time telephone that God supplies everyone with.  Sometimes God will make the call and we don't hear the ring or will not pick up and listen, and sometimes it remains silent.  Everyone doesn't like the phone God supplies and has to get themselves their own new-fangled phone with all the features, (it's called the Beast666 model)   Unfortunately that new phone will not receive God's calls very clearly but the world comes in loud and clear.   The overcomers I believe are getting rid of their new phone and listening for the ring of God and taking His calls on the old phone, they are ridding their life of the din of noise from the world so they can listen, loud and clear.

Overcoming  is a lifelong process and only God can direct us to the end, but we need to get out of the way and let His spirit guide us and quit wondering if we have the spirit or not, it is within us all.

Blessings!
Craig

[Craig]

Like I said above Bobby,

I believe that the spirit of God is in everyone, and God can direct this spirit when, where and with whom He chooses.

Most times He speaks in that still small voice, but sometimes like the trumpet of the arch-angel.

I don't believe He puts in or pulls out His spirit, but He can turn it on or off.

Craig

[ertsky]

i thought these verses might be relevant

Rom 8:16  The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Rom 8:17  And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Rom 8:18  For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared  with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

but yeah i'm seeking Him with everything He gives me, lest i should be a castaway

i want to be in the first resurrection

so these verses mean a lot to me

Jud 1:24  Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Eph 1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Eph 1:12  That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.


2Pe 1:4  Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 1:5  And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6  And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7  And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8  For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9  But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Pe 1:10  Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Phi 3:11  If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Phi 3:12  Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

f

indeed

stay under

keep following

Pro 4:18  But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

first resurrection, well it's not so much the first resurrection i want, it's Him

Joh 6:40  and this is the will of Him who sent me, that every one who is beholding the Son, and is believing in him, may have life age-during, and I will raise him up in the last day.'

f

[Chris R]

O.K,

This is just my opinion, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, or if I contradict Ray or Mike.

If a person would tell me he is one of the chosen, or if I started to believe I was myself, then I would say that I/they are not the chosen.

Being the chosen of God is to be an overcomer, and overcoming is a life-long process.  We will know if we are chosen when we awaken at the first ressurection and not until.  I believe even in Paul's writings he doesn't  claim to be the chosen, he is hopeful and says he has done all he can do to overcome, and finish the race.

The spirit of God is in all of us, ALL.  I liken it to an old-time telephone that God supplies everyone with.  Sometimes God will make the call and we don't hear the ring or will not pick up and listen, and sometimes it remains silent.  Everyone doesn't like the phone God supplies and has to get themselves their own new-fangled phone with all the features, (it's called the Beast666 model)   Unfortunately that new phone will not receive God's calls very clearly but the world comes in loud and clear.   The overcomers I believe are getting rid of their new phone and listening for the ring of God and taking His calls on the old phone, they are ridding their life of the din of noise from the world so they can listen, loud and clear.

Overcoming  is a lifelong process and only God can direct us to the end, but we need to get out of the way and let His spirit guide us and quit wondering if we have the spirit or not, it is within us all.

Blessings!
Craig

Hi Craig,

You are absolutley correct,

Peace

Chris R

[ertsky]

If a person would tell me he is one of the chosen, or if I started to believe I was myself, then I would say that I/they are not the chosen.

how does that reconcile with this verse

Rom 8:15  for ye did not receive a spirit of bondage again for fear, but ye did receive a spirit of adoption in which we cry, `Abba--Father.'
Rom 8:16  The Spirit himself doth testify with our spirit, that we are children of God;

quit wondering if we have the spirit or not, it is within us all.

how does that reconcile with

Rom 8:9  And ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God doth dwell in you; and if any one hath not the Spirit of Christ--this one is not His;

i know these thoughts scare the pant's of one who doubts, but i believe we need to know that we are His and be able to back it up with scripture and experience.

i remember suffering anguish myself awhile ago thinking "oh no, what if i'm not His" (panic panic freak freak)

then decided to seek Him anyway it was just the adversary up to that same old tactic

the enemy will always challenge our sonship just like he challenged the Lord.

Mat 4:3  And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

i would say we need to follow Jesus' example and refute Satans lies with the word.

Eph 1:5  Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Joh 8:31  Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Joh 8:32  And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Mat 10:22  And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.


2Co 13:5  Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

PLEASE IF I'VE GOT THIS WRONG, CORRECT IT

f

[Chris R]

Hi,

There is nothing that contradicts the scriptures you have mentioned, But we must all understand why Paul wrote the following verses,

I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:  But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. 1Cr 9:26-27.

Paul knew were God had him  then and there, this however CAN change,

Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.   1Cr 9:24

He hath made every [thing] beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end. Ecc 3:11

It is useless to even consider that you or I can know what circumstances God will cause for us tommorrow that could sway us or change us.

This is why we run the race, and if we endure to the end it is all of God, and not of man.  

O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps. Jer 10:23

God knows who are His, However WE simply do not know what things we must suffer for his name, Only God knows, to say otherwise is foolishness.

Chris R

[Craig]

If a person would tell me he is one of the chosen, or if I started to believe I was myself, then I would say that I/they are not the chosen.


how does that reconcile with this verse

Rom 8:15 for ye did not receive a spirit of bondage again for fear, but ye did receive a spirit of adoption in which we cry, `Abba--Father.'
Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself doth testify with our spirit, that we are children of God;

Quote:
quit wondering if we have the spirit or not, it is within us all.


how does that reconcile with

Rom 8:9 And ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God doth dwell in you; and if any one hath not the Spirit of Christ--this one is not His;

PLEASE IF I'VE GOT THIS WRONG, CORRECT IT

Let me start by saying that in my earlier life I was a teacher of scripture, I  am no longer, I am a student and as such I am very careful to say anything because I know how wrong I was in the past with my teaching and don't want to be wrong and cause anyone to stumble.  I have alot to learn now, and feel I am only in kindergarten.

Chris answered the first question better than I can.

Let me try to answer accdording to my belief.

There are many verses in the bible that testify to "spirit of" do a search on them.  There are many spirits working in us all the time.

I don't see any thing that makes me question the statement of Rom 8:16, the spirit of God in us all testifies with our spirit of life that we are children of God.  I could be wrong but I believe deep down even a athiest feels this connection.

Rom 8:9 is answered for me in 2 cor 3:2-3

2 Ye (the believers) are our epistle (letter, message, etc) written in our hearts (notice hearts), known and read of all men:  (Notice all)

How is it known and read by "all" men?
Through their hearts.

How is written in their hearts?
By the spirit of God that dwells there.

3 Forasmuch as ye (believers)are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ (message of Christ that Paul taught) ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

The spirit of God is in all man's hearts, else how could it be known and read by all men?

It's just that most of mankind ignores the spirit of God that is within us.

Well that's just my opinion, and I'm open to correction.

Craig

[ertsky]

thanks for the replies Chris and Craig

i thought there was a suggestion that ALL now have the holy spirit in them and it seemed to me "that can't be right" doesn't the scripture say

Joh 14:17  Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh 14:18  I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

i believe that in Him (God) we live and move and have our being

however

Rom 8:9  But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

i heartily agree there is no place in the believers life for complacency, we must run, not because we will, but because God is causing us to run, it is definately not of him that wills or runs but of God who shows mercy.


some verses that speak

Col 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

Heb 6:11  And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 6:12  That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Heb 10:22  Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:23  Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

and when the devil challenges our sonship let us remind him that he is a liar from the beginning by knowing the scriptures as God's spirit has taught them to us.

Heb 11:27  By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

2Pe 1:4  Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

lets seek Him with ALL our God given strength

though He slay me yet will i trust Him

f

have i got this wrong ? does it need balancing ?

is there error in what i am saying ?

also as you may be aware i am zealous for the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so please make allowances for my intensity.

i'm only trying to honour Christ by getting it right

and i need all the help i can get

f

[hillsbororiver]

Great thread, really edifying and interesting scriptures and opinions.

At the Nashville Conference Ray spoke of "All are Guilty of All" that it is the Spirit of God in us that keeps most of us from doing every and any despicable thing the human mind can imagine. "But by the grace of God go I" is applicable to everyone who "by the grace of God" has not murdered, raped, tortured or committed the most atrocious acts against their brothers and sisters.


http://www.aionios.com/mp3s/Ray_Guilty_of_ALL.mp3

This is an eye opener.

Joe

[Craig]

i thought there was a suggestion that ALL now have the holy spirit in them

I just popped in and don't have time for a full response, but I don't think I said holy spirit, I said spirit fo God.

Craig

[hillsbororiver]

Job 32:8  But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Pro 20:27  The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.

Ecc 3:21  Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?


1Co 12:7  But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

1Co 12:11  But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Eph 3:16  That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

1Th 4:8  He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God who hath also given unto us his Holy Spirit.

[ertsky]

sorry about that Craig

i always thought the spirit of God is the holy spirit

dang i sure could use some instruction about now

verses like these

2Co 3:17  Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Eph 4:4  There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

God help me i only want to get it right

f

[Chris R]

and when the devil challenges our sonship let us remind him that he is a liar from the beginning by knowing the scriptures as God's spirit has taught them to us.

f

Hi ,

Satan has no "agenda" That God himself did not first ordain. Satan does not run Satan, God does. This is evident all through Scipture.

By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his [Gods] hand hath formed the crooked serpent. [Job 26:13]

"And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job",  [Job 1:8]

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.[Isa 45:7]

It was none other than God who "told" Satan to test Job. So God is in complete control of His creation, including Satan.

For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I [God] raised thee up, that I [God] might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.   Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.  [Rom 9:17-18].

One of the hardest things i had to overcome, was the ability to accept these few verses, This is Gods plan, not My plan, And God will use me for His purpose, As Christ taught us to pray  "Thy will be done".

There is nothing I can do in and of myself that will change Gods plan one iota, There is no good thing i have ever done that i can boast about. Everything is of God, And RIGHTLY SO, All praise goes to the Father.

This is a bitter pill to swallow, That we do not direct our own steps, sure we read the scriptures, But do we really believe them?

In fear and trembling we work out our OWN salvation, WHY?....Why in "fear and trembling"... I do every single day, I do because i know that God will create circumstances for me that will change me instantly, Also for you, and everyone posting on this forum.

Peace

Chris R

[ertsky]

Hi ,

Satan has no "agenda" That God himself did not first ordain. Satan does not run Satan, God does. This is evident all through Scipture.

By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his [Gods] hand hath formed the crooked serpent. [Job 26:13]

"And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job", [Job 1:8]

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.[Isa 45:7]

It was none other than God who "told" Satan to test Job. So God is in complete control of His creation, including Satan.

For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I [God] raised thee up, that I [God] might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. [Rom 9:17-18].

One of the hardest things i had to overcome, was the ability to accept these few verses, This is Gods plan, not My plan, And God will use me for His purpose, As Christ taught us to pray "Thy will be done".

There is nothing I can do in and of myself that will change Gods plan one iota, There is no good thing i have ever done that i can boast about. Everything is of God, And RIGHTLY SO, All praise goes to the Father.

This is a bitter pill to swallow, That we do not direct our own steps, sure we read the scriptures, But do we really believe them?

In fear and trembling we work out our OWN salvation, WHY?....Why in "fear and trembling"... I do every single day, I do because i know that God will create circumstances for me that will change me instantly, Also for you, and everyone posting on this forum.

Peace

Chris R

that's what i believe as well Chris, i don't think there was a word in that post of yours that i don't agree wholeheartedly with.

but i thought the question to hand was

is God's spirit in ALL now ?

so i posted various verses to explain why i believe the answer to that question is no.

Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

and then further to that

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

so i was a bit confused by your post there firstly because i already believe everything in it and i thought that would be obvious to anyone that has read my posts

secondly i couldn't see how it related to the discussion at hand

i assure anyone reading that i'm only trying to be clear and concise as to what i believe and why i believe it.

f

to further clarify i am posting my position so that it may be confirmed or else corrected

i believe all men are in God but not God is in all men (not yet, i believe He will be)

else why does the scripture say

Act 17:27  That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Act 17:28  For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

it says though He be not far from each one of us, why doesn't it say He is in all people.

as i say confirmation or correction

i just want to get it right

and bless you all for your patience

f

[Chris R]

Hello,

Thankyou for your note back, Yes i believe that Gods spirit is in all mankind,

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

This scripture makes it evident that Gods spirit is given to all men.

But the word in itself "spirit" seems to have many different applications, i'm just not sure what your really asking?

John 14:17 "Spirit of truth"?

Num 5:14  "the spirit of jealousy"

Exd 28:3 "the spirit of wisdom"

Deut 2:30 "God hardened his spirit"

Jdg 9:23 "Then God sent an evil spirit"

1Sa 1:15 "sorrowful spirit"

1Sa 28:8 "familiar spirit"

Rom 11:8 "spirit of slumber"


1Cr 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.  

Peace

Chris R

[ertsky]

sorry about that Craig

i always thought the spirit of God is the holy spirit

dang i sure could use some instruction about now Smile

verses like these

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

God help me i only want to get it right

f

i thought it was obvious from this post that i thought it was being suggested that the holy spirit was in all men now

i'm a bit disconcerted by all this

i suppose it goes to show just how sometimes you think something is obvious and then it turns out it isn't

so Chris

are you saying that God's spirit is in all men but that spirit is not the holy spirit ?

obviously from my earlier posts i wondered how to reconcile that view with

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

anyways

i wish to make it clear i am not into arguing for arguing's sake as i am sure you also feel this way Chris

i'll think about all this and post again should it become necessary

f