unbelievable...a HELL PLAY by our local homeschoolers!

[hebrewroots98]

Dear Brethren, I AM SICK TO MY STOMACHE OVER WHAT I JUST READ ON MY LOCAL HOMESCHOOL SUPPORT GROUP THAT I AM A MEMEBER OF....THE DIRECTOR OF THE PLAY (A HS MOM) HAS JUST PUT OUT THE FOLLOWING INVITAION (THROUGH EMAIL) FOR ALL OF US LUBBOCK HOMESCHOOLERS TO COME AND WATCH THIS PLAY THAT WILL BE PERFORMED BY (4TH TO 10TH GRADE HOMESCHOOLERS)... THAT IS CALLED...

"THE HABITATION OF VANITIES"

SHE has put a literal disclaimer out stating the following:
"**DISCLAIMER:  THE WORD "HELL" IS USED  IN THE DIALOG TRHOUGHOUT THE PLAY IN REFERENCE TO CONTEXT TO HELL MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE.  THIS PLAY ALSO DEALS WITH DEATH AND AFTERLIFE.  MAY NOT BE ACCEPTABLE FOR YOUNG AUDIENCE."

This has caused me to be in  a whirlwind of emotions and thoughts, so I thank God that I had a very good discussion with my DH!  (And, THANK YOU JOE for the scriptures that you had posted just earlier about us  being A PECULIAR PEOPLE UNTO GOD!  That was perfect timing for me to read, WOW.  Right now my flesh just wants to goand confront each homeschool mother who has allowed their kids to be in this play, but, I am praying for HIS guidance through this little detour in my homeschooling affairs.  This mother who directs the plays each year does an OUTSTANDING job, she is meticulous and always uses the same kids as her actors and they always end up winning the local competition against other drama groups (public schoolers) and she always ends up going to state competition and even wins there.  This saddens me emensly that she will be so good at getting this kind of crap out there for all to see, but,at the same time, I know that it is all in HIS plans.  I have mixed thoughts about how to handle this to confront her w/ the true etymology of the word HELL, or to just shut my mouth right now.  These plays are her pride and joy and alot of the mothers in my HS group do know that SUSAN DOES NOT BELIEVE IN HELL...so I feel that this was directed to me, b/c I am the only one in the HS group that I know of who doesn't believe int the HEll thing!  They are waiting for my response, I am certain!  (I did not know that this was in the works all of this time...Last year she put on a CW LEWIS play (The lion, whitch, wardrobe"...and she saw me cry at the beauty of it (b/c Yeshua was portrayed so wonderfully), now I am certain that they are all on the defense...awaiting my response...)  I am more concerned at how I deal with these people b/c I will be around them for years to come (perhaps) and i want to do the loving thing and not come down on them in an unloving way. 

Any input is welcome and needed!!!  Thanks ahead of time everyone; you all mean everything to me!!!!  (I have a feeling that my family is going to get even further separated from the world from this...)  One last thing...When one joins this 'christian' homeschool group, one must agree simply with believing in  Jesus, GOd, Holy Spirit, which I have been with now for 3 years; and the 'president' of this group takes great pride in telling others that this group does not discriminate against believers who have differing positions of theology( ha, I am the only one in the group that thinks differently than all the others) or that we have no cliques in this HS group...both of which are untrue!!  (Daniel and I have been so ostricized by these peoples' lack of unity with us, not by their words, but their actions of want nothing to do with us unless they just have to show up at the same event with us!!!)  I know that they see us as a PECULIAR PEOPLE/FAMILY and so BARUCH HASHEM!!!!  i MUST BE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT....but it sure is growing pains right now

I love you all!!!

[prarrydog]

Here is Ray's response to a recent e-mail.  Good luck...

Dear Julie:
        I don't really know what I can say. Yours is not the first email that I have received like this. You pretty much answered your own question.  You will not change the Synagogue of Satan.  You will not teach the Synagogue of Satan. You will not convert the Synagogue of Satan.  We are to "COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE" (Rev. 18:4), and James tells us to "Submit yourselves therefore to God. RESIST THE DEVIL, and he will flee from you" (James 4:7).  We cannot embrace the Synagogue of Satan and expect anything more than you have received. On the other hand, there would be dozens of Churches who would read your email and tell you to join with them, as they have TWO SOUP kitchens feeding the poor and hungry daily. You would then starve to death spiritually, but at least you would have hot soup every day.  So as I said, Julie, I don't know what to tell you.  I teach and counsel people as I am able. I have no soup kitchen, no orphanage in Haiti, no TV or Radio broadcasts, no social services program, and a zero budget for any such thing.  I do what I do, the best I can do, and that's about all I can do.  You are welcome with open arms to join our Forum and be a part of what we believe. Other than that, I am just one man who tries to write on difficult subjects and try to make them easy to understand, and I answer thousands of emails. That's about all I can offer along with my prayers for your welfare and spiritual growth.
        God be with you,
        Ray

with love
Scott

[Deborah-Leigh]

Dear Susan

It is exactly what you say it is.....growing pains....YOUR growing pains! Rejoice....and not to put them down because without them this contrast of them how would you see or know you were GROWING? YOU are growing and they are not... just not now..not yet...but for you, like the OT...for you and your admonition.

Hope this helps just a little to ease the pain. You should be happy. I know it is sore...so I will be happy for you. I am sure you will do just fine. That will probabley help them to grow....you doing fine that is!

Peace to you

Arcturus

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

Susan,

  I read the post that you had written, and to think about that play being put on leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.  Avoid it like the plague.

  <shakes head at some of the stupidity that goes on in the world.>

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire

[rk12201960]

Don't feel bad Susan. Not that you should. Your family in God is here. 
The whole world one day will understand but untill them you are a light in darkness. You have been pulled out of the world, and givin blessings far greater than most.

God bless you and your stand for the truth.
Blessings and understanding to you my sister.

Randy 

[hebrewroots98]

Randy,
ABSOLUTELY YOU ALL ARE MY FAMILY....NO DOUBTS ABOUT IT   (THANK YOU LORD )
Yes, I  am a light in the darkness, it is just that sometimes I am not sure when to open my mouth and when to shut it...the Holy spriit will have to lead here!

Baruch HaShem (praise God) that He has given me some AWESOME BLESSINGS AND TRUTHS to experience in this life.

blessings and Shalom to you too Randy!

[eggi]

God be with you, Susan.
Perhaps God wants to use you as a witness to them at this point, perhaps not. Continue in the same way you have started, pray for His guidance and that His will be done, and you can't go wrong! Keep on doing what you are doing, it's a lonely walk, but it's the right thing to do.

By the way... What is the purpose of this play? To teach about the afterlife? What is the point? If it's not acceptable for a young audience, then how can it be played by a young group of people?

God bless you,
Eirik

[gmik]

I thought that too Eirik.  Also Susan what do you want to do w/ this group, how important is it to you-very imp?? then say nothing.  Not too imp- then why have anything to do w/ it.

I taught in a "christian School" for 11 years.  I was one of the few pentecostal/charismatic....etc in this "evangelical" school.  If any of you know about your kitchen cabinets-Merillat-Mr. Merillat himself had the school built so his granddaughters wouldn't have to go to school w/ the riff raff.  He was United Brethern-but the school was to be non-denominational but definately conservative.  My kids went there as well.  Sometimes I wanted to bang my head against the wall.  I kept a low profile and didn't do anything obnoxious (I don't think).  We had "devotions" every morning before the kids came.  On Fridays, each teacher took a turn to do the "devotions".Ugh, What a snore-fest.  Even the few charismatics kept their devotions middle of the road. When my kids got up into HS I had real lproblems w/ the bible teacher.  He was a 'Hyper-Calvinist" and my kids had to turn in papers w/ his beliefs to get a passing grade.  My kids were to put at the bottom (this is not what I believe).  I would storm down that hall like a mad woman half the time to confront him (Now he teaches at Moody in Chicago).  Well I digress.

The point- did I want that job enough to put up w/ junk I didn't believe in?  Did I want the kids in that school? Yes.  When my youngest was out of there I "retired".  I started subbing until I got in where I teach now.  Now, looking back, I shouldn't have worried about so much of their stuff-  Most of it was "adiafra"- didn't matter.  They were all basically nice people and just doing their job the best they could-for no benefits and a lot less money than public school teachers.

You are astute in the ways of the world Susan.  You will hear God and do His Will.  Don't worry about it. God trusts you w/ Daniel.

[PKnowler]

Hi Susan,

   I can understand why this would cause you to have a whirlwind of emotion. I think you have gotten some good advice here.
Like you said it is growing pains that is to be expected as we walk with the Lord.

It is not going to help for you to give them a lecture on why there is no hell. You can't change them, only God can open their eyes. If this group is important to you I would just separate yourself from this activity.  I wouldn't say anything, especially if they already know that you don't believe in Hell. If they have questions let them come to you.

It just might be that the contrast of having this play and you not believing in Hell will make them question this teaching themselves.

I pray that God gives you wisdom in this situation and I thank Him because I know He will.

[snorky]

Susan:

Maybe you should check out whether or not it was directed at you. If it wasn't, then don't worry about it..just Christendom doing nonsense, and stick to your guns. If it was, then know your little persecution will only make you stronger. But I would check it out, perhaps from the driector, since it seems to bother you that it might.--Deb aka snorky

[hebrewroots98]

Hello everyone.

Thank you so much for your insight!  Right now the problem is that these kids are pretty much Daniels' only social life; with the exception of a few aquaintances from the neighborhood, boy scouts, karate, and baby David.  (We have NO family that is totally committed to him and he is an only child (due to the fact that his 5 grown siblings are not there for him either.)  I am not trying to embrace their ways, I just hoped to have their home schooling support for Daniel to be able to relate to other HS kids as well as to have social opportunities with his peers...in which he used to have b/f they understood our religious differences.)  (They have shunned him and he knows it; they lliterally know (by me telling them) that they are pretty much all he has and they still don't care; he is very young to have to bear the loneliness issue here, b/c he knows no other child of his age who believes as he does.)  We have just tried to not dwell on it, and to have fun within our little family of three on every occassion that we can.

(and as you say Arcturus...smile and be happy for this lot and that hopefully they will see that whatever they do will not affect my happiness, which in turn will help them to grow spiritually.)

Erik, and Gena,  (I am waiting for the Lord to reveal the answer to me about speaking up right now or not; for now I'll say nothing till I feel prompted to do so.  btw, Good observation...this play is for teens and above, and yet the director must think that 'her' kids are mature enough to handle the hell issue (I know that the parents of some of them have discussed hell with these kids and Hell, is all they know and they are very comfortable with hell!)   They are trying to cause fear in everyone to get them to see how their current life is effecting their eternal destiny.   They LIVE  to EVANGELIZE (alot of them are Methodists); the directors' son is going to be a 'missionary' in a couple of years. 

Gena, my DH thinks that I should drop them b/c he thinks that they are not helping with Daniels' academia (which he is correct), but, the social interaction is what I am looking at, even if it is just surface relationships for him to have right now.     'snore fest', now that's cute! (...I LIKE THE IDEA OF WRITING ON THE BOTTOM OF THEIR PAPERS...'THIS IS NOT WHAT I BELIEVE'. And now that you said this, MAYBE God wants Daniel to be there (and for me to guide his understanding of the religious differences dynamics) in order for Daniel to learn how to speak up for his religious beliefs to these other kids; (infact, he has already done that on many occassions.)  He is actually getting quite good at it.)  Oh, Gena, I needed to hear that about thank you for your vote of confidence and for encouraging me to not worry (lol, I truly noticed more gray hairs today

Good advice Paula, separate myself from this play and let them come to me and ask their questions  (this is a big test for me, obvioulsy.)  DH stated that if I DO go to the play that I

[hebrewroots98]

Hello everyone; I AM SORRY, I HAD POSTED ACCIDENTALLY ON THE PREVIOUS POST HERE, BEFORE I WAS FINISHED WRITING ....(PLEASE JUST PICK UP WHERE I LEFT OFF AT )  

Thank you so much for your insight!  Right now the problem is that these kids are pretty much Daniels' only social life; with the exception of a few aquaintances from the neighborhood, boy scouts, karate, and baby David.  (We have NO family that is totally committed to him and he is an only child (due to the fact that his 5 grown siblings are not there for him either.)  I am not trying to embrace their ways, I just hoped to have their home schooling support for Daniel to be able to relate to other HS kids as well as to have social opportunities with his peers...in which he used to have b/f they understood our religious differences.)  (They have shunned him and he knows it; they lliterally know (by me telling them) that they are pretty much all he has and they still don't care; he is very young to have to bear the loneliness issue here, b/c he knows no other child of his age who believes as he does.)  We have just tried to not dwell on it, and to have fun within our little family of three on every occassion that we can.

(and as you say Arcturus...smile and be happy for this lot and that hopefully they will see that whatever they do will not affect my happiness, which in turn will help them to grow spiritually.)

Erik, and Gena,  (I am waiting for the Lord to reveal the answer to me about speaking up right now or not; for now I'll say nothing till I feel prompted to do so.  btw, Good observation...this play is for teens and above, and yet the director must think that 'her' kids are mature enough to handle the hell issue (I know that the parents of some of them have discussed hell with these kids and Hell, is all they know and they are very comfortable with hell!)   They are trying to cause fear in everyone to get them to see how their current life is effecting their eternal destiny.  They LIVE  to EVANGELIZE (alot of them are Methodists); the directors' son is going to be a 'missionary' in a couple of years.  

Gena, my DH thinks that I should drop them b/c he thinks that they are not helping with Daniels' academia (which he is correct), but, the social interaction is what I am looking at, even if it is just surface relationships for him to have right now.    'snore fest', now that's cute! (...I LIKE THE IDEA OF WRITING ON THE BOTTOM OF THEIR PAPERS...'THIS IS NOT WHAT I BELIEVE'. And now that you said this, MAYBE God wants Daniel to be there (and for me to guide his understanding of the religious differences dynamics) in order for Daniel to learn how to speak up for his religious beliefs to these other kids; (infact, he has already done that on many occassions.)  He is actually getting quite good at it.)  Oh, Gena, I needed to hear that about thank you for your vote of confidence and for encouraging me to not worry (lol, I truly noticed more gray hairs today

Good advice Paula, separate myself from this play and let them come to me and ask their questions  (this is a big test for me, obvioulsy.)  DH stated that if I DO go to the play that I should say nothing more than a critique on the stagecraft and design, the actors and costumes, etc...but I don't think that I could stop at that and not say more to try to convince them otherwise!)

Hi Deb, I know for a fact that they have watched me go from all kinds of changes and they judged me as being flighty and that Ibeing MESSIANIC to now a 'NO HELL BELIEVER' and they think that b/c I have been sick and gained some weight, exhausted, financially poor, no real college degree (although I went to seminary in an accelerated private school that taught us more bible (in 3 yrs than I could get as a bible major at the local affiliated university!) (ill due to a diagnoses 2 yrs ago w/ Gulf war syndrom)

(lol, they would really flip if they knew all of the topics that all of us here believe as written in this site.)

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

Susan,

  My opionion of the homeschool group is dropping quite fast.  Now, I am not sure of what I am going to do.  I know that God will show me in the end.  I have seen some of these kids and am not sure of whether I wish my little one to get involved in, these kids for some reason have struck me as being very spiteful and spoiled.  Your Daniel is an exception.

  Well let us know how things work out, I am going to finish the forum and get some sleep.

  Sincerely,




  Anne C. McGuire

[hebrewroots98]

Anee,
Do not let these children or families cause you to reconsider hsing.  You can still hs and just do it dif than I did.    Talk to ya later.

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

Susan,

  Thanks so much for the words of encouragment.  I needed them. 

  Sincerely,




  Anne C. McGuire

[snorky]

Susan:

I agree, don't stop homeschooling...but by you rother posts it seems it was directed at you if not your son. If they are snobbish or whatever to him, then maybe distancing yourselves from this group would be better. Are there other homeschool groups in your area? Or you can just participate in one or two events. Our HS group covers a very large area and extends about 100 mile radius in the Big Bend area. there are 30 or so families of all denominations, non-denominations, Catholics, charismatics, fundamentalists, you name it, as well as non-church goers. Since most of the meetings are held in a town 50 miles away (Alpine, where most of the families are) we don't do much with them. We ourselves do the Geography Bee and the Project Fair every year and that's about it. The families in the Ft. Davis area are more likely to be less "churchy" and more Biblically truthful based, but of course the "hell" issue is still a stumbling block for them. I don't know about the ones in Alpine but the folks in Ft. Davis have never really made too much of a big deal about "hell." Your situation, having a child that is pretty much shunned, shouldn't discourage you too much. In the mountains here my son and daughter pretty much had just themselves to hang with. Now that he's in college my girl misses him but she does okay and we do things with her. I hope this helps.--Deb

[hebrewroots98]

Deb,
I would never think of doing anything but home schooling (unless the Lord of cousre showed me otherwise.)  Unfortunately this group says from their mouths that they reiceive ALL BELIEVERS IN CHRIST; but their hearts and actions show shunning and arrogance and self righteiousness and cliques. They will even smile and hug you in public and work with me and son in public, and I know for a fact that they have talked negatively about me to the others in the clique.  They claim to accept all denominations (and they DO accept all denominations that you have spoken of, but, just not a Messianic believer (which I used to be), or a 'NO HELL BELIVER' ,) but the truth is...THEY CAN'T HANDLE SPIRITUAL TRUTHS !!  They all think that they are better than I just b/c they have a little formal education and money, and as I said before...I am not impressed with them and their education b/c their hearts are dark and unloving and hypocritical.  I know their game, abut they don't know that.  The WOMEN/MOPTHERS ar the ones whom have always tried to give Daniel a hard time; (their kids just don't notice a difference unless the parents told them to stay away from him. )  I JUST ATTRIBUTE IT TO THE FACT THAT ME AND DANIEL'S FIGHTS ARE NOT AGAINST FLESH AND BLOOD, BUT AGAINST THE SPIRITS IN THESE PEOPLE THAT DONT LIKE THE SPIRIT THAT IS IN US; thus I can't get away from this attitude in this world, it is everywhere!  I willjust have toi live with it.

Really, Deb, I doubt that  it would be any different to go to a different homeschool group here in the area or to a public school b/c the spiritual environment is exactly the same; just different classrooms.  The WORLD is THE WORLD (CHRISTIANS ARE NO DIFFERENT FROM THE UNBELEIVING WORLD IN MY VIEWPOINT....B/C THEY ARE AGAINST THE TRUTH.  SO, I AM 'IN' THE WORLD BUT NOT 'OF' THE WORLD ...So, I will stay where I am since I don't want my son in public schools, and I will just go for only the essential educational opportunities with the group and forget expecting to get close to them ...I was close before they knew my spiritual beliefs and then those relationships went down the drain.  When they saw me change my religion, they began to think that I am spiritually UNSTABLE...(if they only knew of the rock solid foundation that I have received from above, they would be amazed!) 

Yes, their animocity that is being directed to me and Daniel are b/c several of the women know that we no longer believe in hell since I told them so one on one; so they have collaborated this story between themselves about me and they just pretend to like me in public and then ignore me all other times.  I even told the director of this group of how there are cliques and she didn't seem bothered by it enough to do anything about it.  (Daniel was not invited to a Spanish class that most all of the other kids were in ...when I asked why I wasn't invited, I was told that she 'thought' that I couldn;t afford the class materials (when I could have), then we were not asked to do the language arts class (and no money was involved here... They were very secretive and manipulative with this co-op class where each parent assists.) 

(ok, thank you for letting me vent...)

Talk with ya later,   

[Bev]

I'm not certain whether this is pertinent to the conversation but Jesus said in Matthew 5:13 - Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. I'm not saying I'm right, but I'm not certain that we should be striving always to be extreme separatist. Paul the apostle said in 1 Corinthians 9:22 - To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. We've got brethren out here that don't even know that they're brethren that need to be called out. Sometimes God plants us somewhere simply to plant seeds for the one or two. God knows who His are. Don't blow your cover. 

[Bev]

It's amazing to see that there are those out there suffering the same alienation and shunning as me and my family. Me, my girls, and husband are shunned from our families and everybody else. It get's lonely at times. It's amazing to hear some of you alls testimony's here. We are indeed in the world but not of the world. Even when I use to try to fit in, I didn't fit in. I was never accepted by peers, acquaintance, and/or family except when someone needed something. Everyone knows I've always had a giving heart. I use to even would go without to help some of them, until I found out that some of them were talking about what a fool I am. It hurt. I never really knew that their are some literal mean and evil folks in the world. I really didn't have to look to much in the world, they were right in my family. I know Jesus said in Matthew 5:44 - But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you. Well, I really need THE HOLY SPIRIT after how I've been treated of the last decade and a half through loving folks. It wasn't something I had to work at, it was just there. I hope it hasn't waxed cold. I'm sorry. Now, I'm venting. I just never knew that there were such mean and cruel folks in the world, and a lot of them in organized religion.

[hebrewroots98]

Bev, I agree with you and I think your post is very pertinent!  I do not want  to be an extreme separatist either!  Yes, definatley we are callled out to be the light to them that purposefully use us...and I have always struggled in this area.  My spirit wants to be that light, but my body says...no way, i am not putting myself out there to be trampled on!  I want to love all people and especially my enemies...God is using this very situation in my  life to do exactly that with these HSers.  You are right, there are possiblly a few that will listen and bleieve the truth,sbut, how will they listen unless someone is sent?  How beautiful the feet of those that bring good tidings!  I have my work cut out for me now

I, too can relate to family being the first ones to use and abuse you.  It does hurt; but I would never give up on them, and they are fianlly seeing Christ through me!  Thanks  Bev, I needed to hear this