another NOOB question :)

[hillsbororiver]

Job 32:8  But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Pro 20:27  The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.

Ecc 3:21  Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?


1Co 12:7  But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

1Co 12:11  But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Eph 3:16  That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

1Th 4:8  He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God who hath also given unto us his Holy Spirit.

Hi Frank, these verses are from the OT & NT and I thought they addressed your question.

Joe

[ertsky]

or is it that Chris or Craig or Joe or anyone else who may read this thread are saying that there is a spirit from God in man, but that that spirit is not the paraclete, the hagios pneuma, the holy spirit

that would make sense to me, indeed that's what i believe

that ALL people are of God, that is out of God as a scource but that not ALL people are yet born again of God's spirit, though in God's plan ALL people will eventually be reconciled in the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

or have i got that wrong ?

f

[ertsky]

thanks mike that's pretty much how i see it, or is it LOL! my brain hurts

just trying to make sure we are all of one mind on this

i would love for the doctrine of Christ in all this to become clear

i'll come back to this as soon as i've rested the grey cells

f

[hillsbororiver]

Frank, I believe both to be true, think of all the parables with seed, grow, harvest, etc. and also the seed that does not take root, or begins to grow then withers, aren't we being grown into sons and daughters of Him? Where is that growth taking place, in spirit.

Gen 2:7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Ecc 12:7  Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Hos 10:12  Sow to yourselves in righteousness, reap in mercy; break up your fallow ground: for it is time to seek the LORD, till he come and rain righteousness upon you.

Mat 13:31  Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field:

Mat 13:32  Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

I am seeing the breath of life, the Spirit of God as the mustard seed planted in the dust of the earth. Seeking the Lord in all things is what makes it grow, producing the fruits of the Spirit.

Gal 5:22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23  Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Gal 5:24  And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Gal 5:25  If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Gal 5:26  Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Does seeking the Spirit of Christ nurture Him in you? What do you think?

Joe

[ertsky]

hmmmm not quite sure at the moment Joe (and anyone else reading)

i'm still back at this point

if someone said to me "all men have the holy spirit in them right now"

i would say no they don't, the scripture says this

Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

and this

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

is this wrong am i saying something that dishonours Christ ?

does anyone reading (especially Craig Chris and Joe) consider this error ?

i will not post again till you've replied as i don't want any confusion

which often happens with posts flying in all directions

well i hope you know i am seeking the mind of Christ in all this

i'm not trying to argue for the sake of it, i want crystal clarity and by God's mercy i believe it's His will that i have it

He is not the Author of confusion

f

[hillsbororiver]

Frank, don't be troubled, it is too late for me to continue tonight but we will find His Truth so don't sweat it Brother. You are not dishonoring Him.
You are seeking Him!

Joe

[worm]

If a person would tell me he is one of the chosen, or if I started to believe I was myself, then I would say that I/they are not the chosen.

Being the chosen of God is to be an overcomer, and overcoming is a life-long process.  We will know if we are chosen when we awaken at the first ressurection and not until.  I believe even in Paul's writings he doesn't  claim to be the chosen, he is hopeful and says he has done all he can do to overcome, and finish the race.

I fully agree with you Craig...to be an overcomer is a journey...a process to salvation

how to know the Holy Spirit is in you?
I've struggled with the same question and the answer given was "by the fruits you will know them"

and the one greatest of all is LOVE...and I'm talking about the agape love here God has for us...I've found that the more I think and act like God the more these fruits multiply...

to think and act like God is to love everyone...to love your enemy...to give without expecting anything back...to speak a word of kindness when you are ill-treated...to forgive the sins of others against you as God forgives our trespasses...to admit when you were wrong...

these kinda things are really hard to do for ANY man...as we want to react when we're hurt...when we give something we expect something back...but the more we start getting into this agape love which only God can teach us how to live out, the less the weight becomes on our shoulders...and I think that is the burden Christ is talking about that is lighter than that of the world...

if one can hold NOTHING against anybody, doesn't matter what they do to you, that would be the ultimate "Spirit in us" I feel...just as Christ said at His crucifixtion..."Father forgive them, they don't know what they're doing"...if we can change our curses into blessings, I think we will have come a LONG way
:wink:

PS and as for David not having the Holy Spirit...sheesh...he must have been one mighty person to have slain so many giants by himself...and seeing Jesus sitting on the right hand side of God could surely not have been by his own power?

[jennie]

It is hard to rise above the natural man. We want to be right, have the answers, have people give their approval to us and so on. That is part of being huamn. That is what the Bible teaches us in verse after verse to try to overcome. Love others more than ourselves, see people as God sees them. It's hard but when we turn loose of us and let God work freely in us it changes everything!

[hillsbororiver]

Frank, I believe both to be true, think of all the parables with seed, grow, harvest, etc. and also the seed that does not take root, or begins to grow then withers, aren't we being grown into sons and daughters of Him? Where is that growth taking place, in spirit.

Gen 2:7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Ecc 12:7  Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Hos 10:12  Sow to yourselves in righteousness, reap in mercy; break up your fallow ground: for it is time to seek the LORD, till he come and rain righteousness upon you.

Mat 13:31  Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field:

Mat 13:32  Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

I am seeing the breath of life, the Spirit of God as the mustard seed planted in the dust of the earth. Seeking the Lord in all things is what makes it grow, producing the fruits of the Spirit.

Gal 5:22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23  Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Gal 5:24  And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Gal 5:25  If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Gal 5:26  Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Does seeking the Spirit of Christ nurture Him in you? What do you think?

Joe

Gal 3:16  Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


Rev 12:17  And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The seed of Christ which is in all is nurtured to maturation by the latter rain which is His Spirit, the overcomers (the elect) will produce the fruits of the Spirit. The "rain" is not absorbed by the rocky soil (the many).

But our promise is eventually all will finally grow in His Spirit.  

1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

[hillsbororiver]

Job 29:23  And they waited for me as for the rain; and they opened their mouth wide as for the latter rain.

Jer 5:24  Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the LORD our God, that giveth rain, both the former and the latter, in his season: he reserveth unto us the appointed weeks of the harvest.

Hos 6:3  Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

Zec 10:1  Ask ye of the LORD rain in the time of the latter rain; so the LORD shall make bright clouds, and give them showers of rain, to everyone grass in the field.

Jam 5:7  Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

Mat 5:45  That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

We know the "rain" represents God's Spirit, and it rains on all, the just and the unjust.

Joe

[ertsky]

Joh 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
The Holy Spirit dwells with you long before it is in you. This is what leads us to repentance.

this was and still is exactly my position

thanks

f

[yayjesus04]

there was not an indwelling of the holy spirit in the old testament and there wasnt in the new testament until the day of pentecost when they were baptized in the holy spirit. the holy spirit and the spirit/soul are two totally different things.

[mharrell08]

If all scripture is inspired by God and God is spirit, then the entire OT was written by influence of God's spirit. The original question was is God's spirit the same as the Holy Spirit. Everyone receives the spirit of life and this same spirit is from God so it would seem that everyone has God's spirit (spirit of life). So again, is this same spirit of God (spirit of life) the same as the Holy Spirit and what is the difference?

[yayjesus04]

the spirit of God is what we are made in the image of...the holy spirit is what enables us through his power to do the work that has been set forth for us

[Deborah-Leigh]

1 Cor 2 : 11-12 For what man knoweth the things of a man save the SPIRIT OF MAN which is in him: even so the things of God knoweth no man,  but the SPIRIT OF GOD. 12. Now we have received, not the SPIRIT OF THE WORLD,  but the SPIRIT WHICH IS OF GOD;  that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

I notice the following...1. The spirit OF MAN.  2. The Spirit OF GOD. 3.  The spirit OF THE WORLD.

Paul writes Phil 4 : 23 The Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with YOUR SPIRIT.

Peace be to you

Arcturus

[Kat]

Hi yayjesus,

Here is a couple of emails about the Holy Spirit.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4176.0.html ---

       Dear Dwight:

       ALL men (and animals) have a spirit. This spirit gives life to the body and produces soul (feelings, thinking, emotions, etc.). But God dwells in our hearts and minds by way of His HOLY Spirit, which is a different spirit.

       God be with you,
       Ray

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4995.0.html ------

(Question to Ray)
THerefore SInce the "SPIRIT" (holy spirit) is THE LORD(the father), the father must be the spirit.
   
   COMMENT:  The "Spirit" is the possession of God the Father--it is "The Spirit OF God."  However, God has given His Son Jesus Christ this SAME spirit. God has shared ALL with His Son: "ALL power in heaven and earth is given Me" (Matt. 28:18).  Jesus takes of the Spirit His Father has given Him and gives it to US (John 16:15).  The "Comforter" (the "parakletos) IS JESUS.  "And if any man sin, we have an Advocate [Gk: 'parakletos] with the Father, JESUS CHRIST the righteous" (I John 2:1). Jesus Christ IS, the Lord of the Old Testament; the Lord of the New Testament, the Comforter (Parakletos), which is the promised Holy Spirit, which comes to us through JESUS CHRIST, and so "The Lord is that SPIRIT."
   
   God be with you,
   Ray
----------------------------------------------------

Ray has taught about the Holy Spirit in many of his articles.
In the article 'Is God a Closed Trinity or an Expanding Family?' you will find these subheadings; The "Holy Spirit" - Who and what is God - Who and what is Jesus Christ? - Who or what is the Holy Spirit?
Here is the link http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm

Also the 2007 Nashville Conference audio has a lot of teaching about the Spirit of God.
Audio links
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nashville07_1.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nashville07_2.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nashville07_3.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nashville07_4.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nashville07_5.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nashville07_6.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nashville07_7A.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nashville07_7B.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nashville07_8.mp3

Transcript
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[mharrell08]

1 Cor 2 : 11-12 For what man knoweth the things of a man save the SPIRIT OF MAN which is in him: even so the things of God knoweth no man,  but the SPIRIT OF GOD. 12. Now we have received, not the SPIRIT OF THE WORLD,  but the SPIRIT WHICH IS OF GOD;  that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

I notice the following...1. The spirit OF MAN.  2. The Spirit OF GOD. 3.  The spirit OF THE WORLD.

Paul writes Phil 4 : 23 The Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with YOUR SPIRIT.

Peace be to you

Arcturus

Is the spirit of man the same as the spirit of life that every person receives? Also is this verse saying a man knows everything about himself except the spirit of man within himself?

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello mharrell08

Nowhere in the Scripture, as far as I know, is there any mention of a  the spirit of life. No where in Scripture is there any mention that everyone receives this spirit of life. This so called spirit of life is not in the Word of God. If it is, please show me where.

The spirit of man is the spirit of man. The spirit of man is created by God and given to man.

As offered for consideration by Kat here again is what Ray teaches,  quote :      ALL men (and animals) have a spirit. This spirit gives life to the body and produces soul (feelings, thinking, emotions, etc.). But God dwells in our hearts and minds by way of His HOLY Spirit, which is a different spirit.

The Spirit of God is a quote, "different" spirit than the spirit of man. The Spirit of God is Holy. The spirit of man in not holy....not yet.

There is such a thing as an evil spirit.

The Spirit of Truth is the Holy Spirit that is Christ.

Peace be to you

Arcturus

[mharrell08]

Sorry about that Arcturus...I mistook the "breath of life" for "spirit of life" from Genesis Chapter 2...

Also, can you help me with this verse 1 Cor 2 : 11-12 For what man knoweth the things of a man save the SPIRIT OF MAN which is in him: even so the things of God knoweth no man,  but the SPIRIT OF GOD. 12. Now we have received, not the SPIRIT OF THE WORLD,  but the SPIRIT WHICH IS OF GOD;  that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Is that saying a man knows everything about himself except the spirit of man within himself?

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello mharrell08

It is quite plain. 1 Cor 2 : 11 -12 is not saying anything else but what it is saying. It did not say that a man knows everything about himself and his spirit does not.

Here is another translation that might make this clearer for you.

For who among men knows the things of a man, except the spirit of a man within him? So also no one has known the things of God except the Spirit of God. But we have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit from God; that we may know the things freely given to us by God.   (The Interlinear Bible)

Peace be to you

Arcturus