Are there any other Proofs about Christ and other Bible matters other than Bible

[gmik]

I just read this thread and am wondering why it stopped?? (yes, I am still playing catch up on the forum from vacation)

Michele and Nancy, that is great advice from Arcturus. Reading and totally digesting BT will probably take a lifetime.  Apart from the Bible, it is the best material you can read.  Even his e-mails are mini-teachings better than most sermons of Christendom.

In the last couple of years, my emotions and thoughts have been like a roller-coaster ride. High highs and low lows.  Why did God do this, why isn't life more like this, why didn't God do it this way, this is too hard, I wish I could go back, this doesn't make any sense, why, why, why........OMG this is so awesome, yes, this is it, this is the truth!, God is so awesome, God knows what He is doing, what a fabulous plan, I can't wait for the All in All....

See what I mean?   One thing, well several, staying in the Word, praying to keep "intimacy" w/ God, reading BT, and this forum is helping keep me grounded and at least staying in the middle (not so bi-polar).

For the other "thread" in this thread.
I know a man, who graduated from the University of Michigan grad school as a scientist.  Biology/Physics.  He became a computer "something" to program the Richard M. Nixon library. This was back in the late 70's. (true story)  His wife, my friend, tricked him into coming to a "cool, far-out" prayer meeting.  He was stoned at the time (he usually was).  Anyway, he got instantly sober at the meeting. And became an instant Christian. (as we knew it then).  He would tell us stories about biology and physics-like learning things in one class and going to the next class and hearing the complete opposite.  He had a resolute faith that God created the universe, and all in it including all the scientific laws.

Sorry, I got windy.

[DWIGHT]

Dear Michele,

Like Gena, I'm catching up on different threads that I missed for the few days that I was away, and don't know why this thread ended.

I think that where you are in the Lord, you have a lot of legitimate questions.  Especially living with someone who doesn't believe in the existence of God.  The advice given to you about reading all of Rays teachings are good, but unless God reveals it to you, or any of us, it is like reading the newspaper.  Remember that there are two billion confessing Christians in the world, and there are only a handful that we know of, who are able to have ears to hear and eyes to see.  Your husband is no different than they are when it comes to being blind.  When the disciples asked the Lord why He spoke to the multitudes in parables.....

"He answered and said to them, "Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given." Matt. 13:11

Michele, trying to find proof that God or Jesus exist is at best futile.  Even the creation, with all its wonders is but a veil to those who do not have eyes to see and ears to hear.  How can anyone get faith to believe in God or his Son, because faith and faith alone is the key to open our eyes and our ears.

Romans 10:17
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.  That's it....the word of God.  All of us who were given ears to hear, heard it by the word of God.  Not by science or by archeology or anything that you can see, hear or touch physically....it must come by God's revelation and nothing else.

I think this is the hardest lesson for all of us to learn.....

But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. I Cor. 2:14

God bless,

Dwight

[Johann]

Michele

You will find a lot in Josh McDowell's book: "The New Evidence that demands a verdict"

Take care.

Johann

[DWIGHT]

Hi Johann,

Welcome to the forum.  You will also find a lot in the book that God wrote: "The Bible."

Dwight

[Deborah-Leigh]

I have a copy of Josh McDowell's  The New Evidence.

McDowell says quote: " You Can Receive Christ Right Now Through Prayer.........The following is a suggested prayer...."

Then the Sinners Prayer is given and we at Bible Truths KNOW how foolish THAT IS.

Christ chooses us. We can not choose HIM because we are carnal and our minds are at enmity with His Spirit. We rely totally on HIM for our salvation and our election to HIS GRACE and MERCY and FAVOUR.

I have seen many good ideas in the writings of Universalists but all too often these ideas carry error's and heresy. The ONLY writings I have found to be consistent with the Scriptures are right here at Bible Truths via Ray Smith. NOTHING compairs with the purity of the revelations that we have in setting us free from doctrinal errors.

Peace be to you

Arcturus

[hebrewroots98]

Welcome Johnathan, I see this is your first post!  Have you read Bible Truths info yet?  Where are you from?  Arcturus is right, the only thing closest to the Word is Rays info; we know, we have been a our quest for truth now for about 28 years!!!  We did not give up searching for that rare TRUTH and we found it...DONT GIVE UP IN YOUR QUEST FOR T\RUTH EITHER!  (seek and you sahll find.)

[gmik]

Welcome Johann!

Been a Christian for over 35 years.  Got blown away when I "found" Ray's site.  I haven't been the same since!!

[andrevan]

Welcome Johann  .

I have seen many good ideas in the writings of Universalists but all too often these ideas carry error's and heresy. The ONLY writings I have found to be consistent with the Scriptures are right here at Bible Truths via Ray Smith.

Arcturus, you took the words right out of my mouth  . I've done a fair bit of looking over the net, and always end up dumping a site within 10min of reading.

I have a number of good books but they're peppered with heresy, (not that good then  ).

God's peace to all.
Andrevan.

[Deborah-Leigh]

My appologies Andrevan

I agree. For this reason I can not quote anyone even if I find a good idea in amongst some very warped ones because to do so would be to qualify them for others to go and study! I can only feel confident with Ray's teachings and no one elses even though there is some ideas, as you say...peppered with heresy or shall we say cynide... ...for the soul and mind....out there!

It shows how scrubbed up we are getting and how sober in mind our Lord is makiing us! HE is coming to us in this new sobriety and cleanness that HE is giving to us!

Peace to you

Arcturus

[Nelson]

Hi folks,

Sorry if I'm repeating anything already said as I haven't time to read all comments. I'm with Chris R on this one, all creation is a testimony to God,

• "Because that which is known of God is manifest among them, for God did manifest it to them, for the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world, by the things made being understood, are plainly seen, both His eternal power and Godhead--to their being inexcusable" (Ro 1:20)
  
  "Lift up on high your eyes, And see--who hath prepared these? He who is bringing out by number their host, To all of them by name He calleth, By abundance of strength (And he is strong in power) not one is lacking" (Isa 40:26)

If people cannot see these things it is because they are in darkness mentally and spiritually. They are in such a condition because God has put them there, for now,

• "And, according as they did not approve of having God in knowledge, God gave them up to a disapproved mind, to do the things not seemly" (Ro 1:28)
  
  "so also these now did not believe, that in your kindness they also may find kindness; for God did shut up together the whole to unbelief, that to the whole He might do kindness" (Ro 11:31,32)

Always speak the truth and do not be surprised at the range of negative responses, even bitter enmity towards you for doing such. Speak with humility the simple truths, those given eyes to see and ears to hear will indeed listen. Learn the truth, grow in Christ and NEVER, NEVER be concerned about what to say when facing detractors. Either remain silent or, if the spirit gives you a word, speak THAT word,

• 
  "Settle, then, to your hearts, not to meditate beforehand to reply, for I will give to you a mouth and wisdom that all your opposers shall not be able to refute or resist" (Lu 21:14,15)
  
  "for see your calling, brethren, that not many are wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; but the foolish things of the world did God choose, that the wise He may put to shame; and the weak things of the world did God choose that He may put to shame the strong; and the base things of the world, and the things despised did God choose, and the things that are not, that the things that are He may make useless--that no flesh may glory before Him; and of Him ye--ye are in Christ Jesus, who became to us from God wisdom, righteousness also, and sanctification, and redemption, that, according as it hath been written, `He who is glorying--in the Lord let him glory.'" (1 Cor 1:26-31)

AMEN! Better to be God's 'fool' than the world's. If Christ, after over 3 years preaching, healing & miracles etc could only gather 120 before the spirit came, the lesson for us is simple, let the spirit do IT'S work. When the spirit plants a word in you, speak it, print it, post it, however you reveal it just do it, but remember, it doesn't mean it will convert, it will certainly convict and it is that which usually brings out the demon in people.

I remember being in 'Growth Group' and the subject drifted onto...... Hell! A word came to me and it just came out, "I don't believe in a burning, fiery hell, there's no such place!" Well it certainly started a fire in that room that night. I said that sheol & hades simply mean 'unseen' and that the lake of fire is symbolic. I did not get a chance to reason with the group as some began shouting in anger, even the pastors wife screamed, "What do you think Jesus died for?", I did answer her though, "To deliver us from death". While most did not take on board what I said, it did cause a stir and some members of the church did want to know more, especially a young German girl who was so fearful for her parents and asked us to pray for them regularly that they be converted and avoid hell. She found these things a comfort. She's returned to Germany now and I hope that God has comforted her heart.

Sorry 'bout that folks, getting carried away there. You'll get used to me :-) Well, hope this helps someone as it came into my heart to post these things.

Love, grace and peace to you all.

Nelson

[Redbird]

Thank you, Nelson,

That was powerful.

Peace to you, Lisa

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Nelson,

Yours is another thought provoking post, the points you raised deserve to be meditated on. I know first hand how discouraging even deflating it can be to give an honest and truthful (scriptural) answer to a person only to see it rejected or ignored, from our limited perspective we might view this as a "waste of time" or feel "what's the use?" Until the Spirit opens one's eyes they are not capable of seeing anything spiritual. Also, are we really able to see how we ourselves are being used by His Spirit? If we do not get instant gratification (agreement) are His Words spoken through us really being wasted? Or will they be remembered at a time of His choosing?

Isa 55:11  So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Going back to the apostles even after walking with the Lord for over 3 years what did they really understand before Pentecost? Not much, in fact next to nothing. We all must remember this when a tinge of disappointment hangs over us when our (spirit directed) words are misunderstood or ignored.

As far as worldly expectations of believers is concerned we should not be consumed by what others think and say about us, sure that is easier said than done but remember;

Joh 15:18  If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

The bottom line and inspiration in our journey should be (again sometimes easier said than done);

Mat 11:29  Take my yoke upon you and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Peace,

Joe




 

[little rock]

keep praying and ask God for faith remember ask and it will be given to you ,seek and you will find ,Knock and the door will be opened to you.for everyone who asks recieves ,he who seeks finds,and to him who knocks,the door will be opened.which of you,if his son asks for bread,will give him a stone?or if he asks for a fish will give him a snake?if you,then,though you are evil,know how to give good gifts to your children,how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!Faith is a gift ,God looks upon the heart of man if in your heart you desire for unshakable faith then do not worry ,but seek first his kingdom and his righteousness and all these things will be given to you as well.
may the Lord bless you will unshakable faith and knowledge of his will for your life.
Gods peace to you                                                                                                                                   Little Rock

[skydreamers]

Nelson, thanks for such an inspiring post!  Very Cool.

Gena, I feel like I could have said these exact same words myself!:

In the last couple of years, my emotions and thoughts have been like a roller-coaster ride. High highs and low lows.  Why did God do this, why isn't life more like this, why didn't God do it this way, this is too hard, I wish I could go back, this doesn't make any sense, why, why, why........OMG this is so awesome, yes, this is it, this is the truth!, God is so awesome, God knows what He is doing, what a fabulous plan, I can't wait for the All in All....

See what I mean?   One thing, well several, staying in the Word, praying to keep "intimacy" w/ God, reading BT, and this forum is helping keep me grounded and at least staying in the middle (not so bi-polar).

Always good to know, we are not alone in our travels to the truth.....

Peace and love to you,
Diana

[YellowStone]

Hey Nelson,

I want to thank you for a very spiritual post. Your words echo the truth in my heart perfectly. Many times in the past I have slaved over finding the "correct" way to say something only to give up in frustration because the words would not come. They came not, for a reason, for "I" was searching for them from the physical and not the spiritual; my physical being became frustrated while the spirit of truth merely laughed.

However, just like the verse you referenced:

Lu 21:14,15: Settle, then, to your hearts, not to meditate beforehand to reply, for I will give to you a mouth and wisdom that all your opposers shall not be able to refute or resist

I have learned to seek not with my eyes and ears but instead with my heart, and the words do come, just as was promised. For we must never forget that the truth needs us not for support; neither will it be weakened if it falls on deafend ears.

2Cr 13:8 For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth. 

I particularly liked your inclusion of Romans 1:20, for as many will attest, this is one Sctripture that I speak of regularly. Possibly, because when God first openned my spiritual eyes and ears I began seeing and hearing Him everywhere.

Yet this should not surprise us, for we are told that:

Jer 29:13 ...ye shall seek me, and find [me], when ye shall search for me with all your heart.  

I would also like to comment on searching for truth. When Jesus spoke of the woman who lost a peice of silver, he gave particular emphasize to her diligent search.

Luk 15:8 Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find [it]? 

Should we not similarly sweep all of Gods creation, including that which is seen and that which is not for God's truth. The woman did not wait for her peice of silver to return, and neither should we (IMHO) wait until we "read" another truth on bible-truths or this forum.

We are here only by the mercy of God. We have been given a truth that many are UNABLE to understand, they cannot hear it, because they know not what to listen for, nor can they see it, because likewise, they know not what to see. However, we have been granted a portion of the Spirit of Truth. Should we be satisfied and unconcerned, hoping that God to grant us more understanding when we need it?

I think not; for I believe our gift of truth should be treated in the same manner as the talents in the following parable.

Mat 25:14 ¶ For [the kingdom of heaven is] as a man travelling into a far country, [who] called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

Mat 25:15  And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

Mat 25:16  Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made [them] other five talents.

Mat 25:17  And likewise he that [had received] two, he also gained other two.

Mat 25:18  But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.

Mat 25:19  After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.

Mat 25:20  And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.

Mat 25:21  His lord said unto him, Well done, [thou] good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Mat 25:22  He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

Mat 25:23  His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Mat 25:24  Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:

Mat 25:25  And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, [there] thou hast [that is] thine.

Mat 25:26  His lord answered and said unto him, [Thou] wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

Mat 25:27  Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and [then] at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

Mat 25:28  Take therefore the talent from him, and give [it] unto him which hath ten talents.

Mat 25:29  For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

I see the connection between the talents and the Truth very clearly. The Spirit of Truth can be found in the least likely of places. If it were easy to find, why then would we need to search? But there is a cavet here. We must not bury what we have learned like the servant who was given just one talent; no, rather we must use the truth that we have been given in order to gain truth. Is this not what Brother Ray himself is doing? Is it merely chance that Ray was the fortunate one amongst us? I think not?

We should not shut ourselves off from anyone or anything spiritually, "Because that which is known of God is manifest among them, for God did manifest it to them, for the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world, by the things made being understood, are plainly seen, both His eternal power and Godhead--to their being inexcusable" (Ro 1:20)

This is not to say that we should believe everything, but rather we should search diligently for the truth and testing the spirits constantly, just as John instructed.

1Jo 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 

These are just my thoughts as inspired by Nelsons post!

Comments are welcome,

Love to all in Christ,
Darren

[Bradigans]

The best proof I believe is THE HOLY SPIRIT, THE PENTECOSTAL HOLY SPIRIT. John 16:13 says - Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. There are so many different interpretations. Get the Holy Spirit, and I believe you'll get THE TRUTH. Jesus said in LUKE 11:13 - If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? 

[jackson]

Hey Michelle,

I understand your frustrations completely.  With so many people telling you the sky is red it's hard to believe that it's blue even when it's right there in front of you.

My advice is 1.patience, 2.persistance and most of all 3.prayer.

1.Understand that God will give you understanding as He sees you are ready for it.

2.Continue to study His Word diligently, all the answers are there.

3.Humbly ask for the truth to be revealed and it will.  God has promised that if you seek you will find!

In His Grace,
jackson