I'm not sure if this is lighthearted, but it is definitely off topic.

[gudazdead]

It occurred to me one day that the universe isn't infinite.
And by that I mean infinitely expanding.
If I were to take a ship out into space and go in one direction, provided that I had enough fuel,
then I would eventually reach the end of the universe.  It can't expand infinitely.  Right?
What do you guys think?
I'm serious.

[mari_et_pere]

Hmm......well you're serious so I will be too. 

I've thought this same thing many times. My conclusion is not how DO we know, but how CAN we know?

The scientists say it's expanding. How do they know? They can't see the end. If you can't see the edge of the universe then how can you know it's getting farther away? 

Think about this: Astronomers knew little about the universe. Over time they discovered our solar system is in a galaxy. They discovered our galaxy is a little one with an unknown number of other galaxies and solar systems. They keep finding more and more galaxies out there. The only definitive thing they've discovered is that they haven't discovered it all yet.

Another thing is, how can we even put into perspective how big the universe is anyways? I mean honestly know, not just saying, "Well it sure is big!" Well yeah it's big! So big we can't imagine the bigness of it. 

The scriptures don't say anything about it expanding, and they don't say anything about it not expanding. They also don't tell us how much "space" [no pun intended] that the universe takes up.

Take a box. Take some balls and marbles and some cosmic looking dust and build yourself a little universe in there. Keep building, keep building, stop. The box isn't getting any bigger is it? You can't go any further. Is the universe God created in a box? If it is in a box, then what's on the outside of the box? If not, then what's on the other side of the edge of the universe? Is there empty space [again, no pun] out there waiting for more stars, planets and what not to be made, a rural empty space waiting for more urban and suburban space to be built? Is there a different universe on the other side?

Don't try to wrap your mind around it because you'll never get it. Questions will beget questions.  They do for me anyways.

Matt

p.s. Has it ever occurred to you just how long it takes to space travel in that ship you refer to? Let's say it's a self-contained ship that creates and recycles it's own fuel indefinitely. You're gonna have to take Leon's fountain of youth with you so you don't die trying to find the edge of the universe. 

[gmik]

Good thoughts matt!

I had heard that God said "Light Be" and light was.  He has never said Light stop-.....so thats why Christians can accept the Universe is expanding. 

[Robert]

It is reasonable from the evidence of cosmology to say the universe is expanding. That does not necessarily mean new matter is being formed or there isn't a finite number of stars.
From what I understand, it is neither scientific nor theological to believe that the finite universe, if it could be viewed from a distance sits in the middle of infinite space, that is, an infinite expanse of nothing.

There are two theories about what could be observed if you travelled in a straight line to the end of the universe; one is that you would end up back in the same place, just like an ant walking in a straight line around a balloon that is being blown up. The other explanation incorporates a 'fourth dimension' and this is, to date beyond my comprehension.

The evidence of expansion is taken from what is observable and the physics associated with it, so it is by definition scientific conjecture.
Scientific conjecture is far from an 'educated guess' though. As an example scientific conjecture will say that if a sand-fly landed upon the rail of an ocean liner then that liner will list over by an infinitesimal amount, but it will list, nonetheless. This is an established belief based on known physics and the mathematics associated with it which under all observable conditions and measurements proved consistent.

An interesting book that touches on this subject is 'Starlight and Time' by D. Russell Humphreys. Although he's ultimately pushing young-earth creationism, he does make cosmology and the theories surrounding it understandable to the layman.

[Deborah-Leigh]

I once had the privilege to fly from NY to London in the Concord. I noticed that the sky line became black at the top of the windows although it was Earth day time! I think space is like the timeless zone outside day and night in earth time by contrast. I think it is like taking what is literal as earth and then projecting outwards into what is spirit unbound by boundaries and limits and beginnings and endings. To us in earth time we find this too far out for our experiences are earthy until our Lord reveals to us His Kingdom and His limitless power over heaven and earth. Then we can no longer view literal as our measure of life or living. Rather like being in the Concord and experiencing space from a window seat heading for London!

Quite bizarre!

2 Cor 4 : 18 Since we consider and look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen; for the things that are visible are temporal, brief and fleeting, but the things that are invisible are deathless.....

Peace be to you

Arcturus

[Sorin]

It occurred to me one day that the universe isn't infinite.
And by that I mean infinitely expanding.
If I were to take a ship out into space and go in one direction, provided that I had enough fuel,
then I would eventually reach the end of the universe.  It can't expand infinitely.  Right?
What do you guys think?
I'm serious.

Well what's outside of the universe? Nothingness? What is nothingness? Is it dark, is it light? I thought God said He creates darkness
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

I think the more you think about it, the more questions you have. I don't think our puny brains can fathom it all.

[Kat]

Hi gudazdead,

The universe is God creation, it is the physical realm. 
It is biggest than we can comprehend.
I really don't think about how big it is, but what is the purpose of it all?
I believe it was created for the human race, but not in our limited human form. The universe is not accessible to us now.
As spirit God is not limit by time or space, right.   The whole universe can not contain Him.

1Ki 8:27  "But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain you; how much less this house that I have built!

So when we become spirit, wouldn't we be able to reach the farthest part of the universe?  So just what is the purpose for us, in all of the great expanses of the universe?

1Cor 2:9  But as it is written, "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard," nor has it entered into the heart of man, "the things which God has prepared for those who love Him."

I think this goes far beyond our tiny little place in the creation now.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[mari_et_pere]

I'm still looking forward to flying around the universe, checking out the sights in wonderment and amazment of our God. 

I bet the farther I go the more amazed I'll be.

Matt

[Deborah-Leigh]

  That is so great Matt. I too wonder just looking up and feeling the VASTNESS of the ABOVE .....I saw a slide show of the latest pics from NASA and the dust clouds....they are HUGE! As Kat says...they are not huge enough to contain God and the excitement of this contemplation touches on the wonder and joy that is in store for us because of Jesus!

As Paul encourages the Corinthians we too can be encouraged by his words that say that Yet to us God has unveiled and revealed them by and through His Spirit for the Spirit searches diligently, exploring and examining everything,even sounding the profound and bottomless things of God the divine counsels and things hidden and beyond man's scrutiny. 1 Cor 2 : 10

We know that the teachings we are receiving here via Ray are certainly beyond mans scrutiny in the world and we have so much truth and peace with what we are learing!

Perhaps we are meant to see beyond the Universe into the Kingdom of God to understand His greatness is quite beyond anything literal or within range of literal or limited to mans perspective in scrutiny! Understanding comes from HIS Spirit    and not our scrutiny! 

Peace be to you

Arcturus