Parable of the Talents

[hillsbororiver]

Contemplating on this parable recently I began to think about how this could apply to us, are we (those who have been blessed with a clearer understanding of His purpose for humanity) putting to a good use the knowledge (treasure) He has generously provided?

Are we like the servant who buried his master's treasure (Mat 25:14 - Mat 25:30) or are we seeking to increase it by setting a good example (through Him) that draws people to wonder what is the source of our hope and joy? (1Pe 3:15)

It is also written that to whom "much is given" (Luke 12:48) "of him much shall be required" how does this relate to the way we live or speak (write) or think? It can be too easy to denigrate the churches and the people in them but how many talents have they been given? What are some of the individuals doing with the smaller amount of the treasure of His Word that has been granted them?

There are some out there doing some very selfless things based on the limited knowledge they have been given, imagine how those folk's love and committment to the Lord will increase when He opens their eyes to the things we have been blessed to receive! Remember our own joy? What are we doing presently with these talents? With this treasure?

These questions/observations have been rolling around my brain the last few days and any comments are greatly appreciated.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[aktikt]

Joe,

Ray has shown that all the parables say the same thing and it is the parable of the sower which says so,

Mar 4:13 ¶ And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

(I know that you know that, but I am restating.)  And all the parables get at that many are called and few are chosen.  Taking this together with knowing there is no free will and that the greater works we do are spiritual rather than physical, I believe this parable to say that those who are the called hear, but it doesn't bear any fruit because the seed fell by the way side, on rocky ground, or on thorny ground.  The called hear (carnally) the Word even though they don't (spiritually) hear!  And to them much is given, that is it is the Word of God they are hearing (though clearly it is the Word of God in the KJV mixed with the teaching of man).  This is much.  However, they don't bear fruit. 

I don't think we can take this principle of to whom much is given much is required further than this otherwise it would turn into works rather than grace.   Am I off base, or is this what you were getting at?

Josh

[CEO]

Joe and Josh

You bring up powerful and nagging questions.  Are we, right now, making the best use of our time with what we know, with our wisdom ?

What is the work of a follower of Jesus ?, today?  For me it is to study and think and learn.  Jn 6: 28,29  'what shall we do that we may work the works of God?'  Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent".

Let's keep up the good work!


                                                    Askseeknock

                                                     Charles O

[Kat]

Hi Joe,

What are we doing presently with these talents? With this treasure?

Hmmm good question.

Gal 5:22-23  But the Spirit produces love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, humility, and self-control.

Love.  I think I have a different understanding of love now.  There is agapao love toward fellowman, because they are simple where God has put them.
And there is the deeper phileo love for those you know personally, because it is a two-way street of love you share, and an even greater appreciation for family and friends, in seeing them in light of God's plan.

Joy.  Having the knowledge of the truth of the One true God and His plan for mankind, is a great and unexpressable joy to me.

Peace.  This scripture says it well.  Phi 4:7  "And the peace of God which passes all understanding shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus."

Patience.  A good test of this for me is in traffic, don't blow up with anger.

Kindness.  Showing consideration to others.

Goodness.  I'll have to go with this scripture.  Mark 10:18  "And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone."  But through Christ indwelling we can show His goodness.

faithfulness.  Belief and trust in God's sovereignty.

humility.  Wouldn't this be the opposite of prideful,  with Christ indwelling we have nothing to be prideful about, He does it all.

self-control   Isn't this the ability to remain calm under duress.

Well I'm thinking these are like the talents in the parable, that we need to be showing in our lives.  Have not got them all down too good, but I'm still a work in progress  

mercy,, peace, and love
Kat

[iris]

This has been a really great thread, and Kat I especially liked what you
posted. It made me think and question myself on the 'fruit of the spirit,
and how I was showing and living them in my life. Thank you!


Iris

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Josh,

Much given, much required are the Words of our Lord.

Luke 12:48  But he that knew not and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Remember the admonishment that faith without works is dead? The reverse is also true, works (which the Pharisees were quite good at) without faith (in Christ) is just as dead.

James 2:14  What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith and have not works? can faith save him?

The 2nd chapter of James deals extensively with this subject.

If we are living in faith and dying to the flesh the spiritual attributes (fruit of the spirit) should be manifesting within us and those gifts would project outward to the people we interact with, the joy we display, the patience we show, (for example) will prompt some to ask what is it that gives us those unique characteristics, this peace, this outlook? Also those who do or speak evil of one displaying these gifts, doing these works in faith are a witness against themselves, when they repay good with evil they are in fact condemning themselves.

Good stuff Kat!

This is where I was hoping we would go with this;

Gal 5:22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23  Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Gal 5:24  And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Gal 5:25  If we live in the Spirit (faith), let us also walk in the Spirit. (works)

Gal 5:26  Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Thanks everyone for your input, there is much to explore and share here.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Joe

What comes to my mind on this subject is what Ray teaches about all the Parables being one. The talents and the ground compare for me to be relative to what you are discussing here. If the stony soil and the shallow and the rich soil are like the talents and if the lost sheep and the found sheep are all saying the one and same thing then that is where the answer is.

Lost found, LOF or transformation. There are those who will act like they are transformed and they will know how to act and there are those who won't need to act because they will be the consequence of Christ's work done in them. Have you ever felt meek because you have been brought to your knees? That is the CONSEQUENCE I am talking about. It is not put on. It is for sure REAL. We do not choose it. We don't want it because it hurts! Did Jesus desire the Cross? NO WAYS! That is REAL.

The problem is we all profess to know what is the fruit of the Spirit and we all try to put it on without the Cross of Christ! First the Cross then the reward that is the Spirit the fruit of His Victory! Oh we want the victory and we want the glory but it is not for sale but it sure is being counterfeited EVERYWHERE in BABYLON!

We can bring value to nothing. It is ALL Christ.  He is the One we are the lost, and we will be found. Some sooner than later.

Peace be to you

Arcturus

[aktikt]

Joe,

Here's the point I was driving at: we are told to to stir up righteous acts, but at the same time we know that without Him we can do nothing.  I was trying to show this balance.

Josh





   

[hillsbororiver]

Hello Josh,

That is certainly a salient point, I could not agree with you more, we have to have a balance, if we are telling ourselves that we are in the race for election into the first resurrection then we really need to consider how we as individuals interact with our sisters and brothers.

Not only interact but how we think of them, what we say about them, if we have a God given understanding of His Word they have yet to be given we should be approaching them with patience and longsuffering, this is not to say that heretical doctrine should be tolerated but that unless someone is strident and divisive we should have empathy as we ourselves could have been where they are, we haven't done a thing in being dragged to His Truth & purpose for us.

If we are holding the Spirit of Christ deep in our hearts then manifesting the fruits of His Spirit (even in baby steps) should be the next logical (spiritually speaking) move toward the finish line.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

 

[gmik]

Great food for thought here.

Here are the two things I think of all the time!

1.  Reading all of Rays papers and the forum (knowledge of truth)

2.  Walking by/in the spirit;(living the life and winning over the beast)

#1 is much easier!!  #2 is the LOF here on earth I think. #2 is impossible for me to do.  I want to be selfish and have my own way!! I want to get angry on the highway too. I forget when I am out and about to flow w/ the fruit of the spirit.  The beast roars!!!

HOWEVER.....I can do nothing w/o Jesus anyway.  He is my Rock, Comforter, Healer, Deliverer, Friend that is closer than a brother, My Saviour!!!! I am in His Hand and He won't drop me. I know that whatever His Will is for me, ...will be!

If He helps me overcome, then I will be more Christlike.  More like #2.  Apart from Him I am nothing.  Apart from Him I can do nothing.  It is all Him.

[skydreamers]

Joe said:

Remember the admonishment that faith without works is dead? The reverse is also true, works (which the Pharisees were quite good at) without faith (in Christ) is just as dead.

James 2:14  What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith and have not works? can faith save him?

Arcturus said:

The problem is we all profess to know what is the fruit of the Spirit and we all try to put it on without the Cross of Christ! First the Cross then the reward that is the Spirit the fruit of His Victory! Oh we want the victory and we want the glory but it is not for sale but it sure is being counterfeited EVERYWHERE in BABYLON!

This reminds me of the story of Jacob.  He falls in love with Rachel, and he labors seven years so that he could have her as his wife.  But who did he end up with?  Leah.  He was deceived.  All this time he thought he was working for Rachel, but he gets Leah.

And in the morning, behold, it was Leah! And Jacob said to Laban, "What is this you have done to me? Did I not serve with you for Rachel? Why then have you deceived me?"
Genesis 29:25

This is like those who labor under a church system and their doctrines.  You first come into the church because you fall in love with Jesus.  Then somehow, someway you get caught in works....that insidious pervasive underlying concept that somehow we still must work in some way for our salvation. 

You think, all this time that you are working for Jesus (Rachel)!  But you are deceived.  It is another Jesus who you end up with (Leah).

It really is a shock to wake up one morning realizing you have not been worshiping your first love.

Yet after all that, Laban still gives Rachel to Jacob,  and he works another seven years for her.  But here, the works come after finally receiving your first love. 

There is a difference between the works that are done for Leah, and the works that are done for Rachel.  One is working thinking that you are going to acquire that elusive Love, the other is working for the Love you already have!  The works of the flesh contrasted with the works of the spirit.

So Jacob went in to Rachel also, and indeed he loved Rachel more than Leah, and he served with Laban for another seven years.
Genesis 29:30

I often feel like I am still in the period between the two:

Complete the week of this one, and we will give you the other also in return for serving me another seven years."
Genesis 29:27

I've come to the realization that I was previously deceived, and the works for "another Jesus" have ended.  I no longer feel I have to do this, that, or the other thing, in the flesh.  Or I should say more clearly, I know that there are no works I can do in the flesh that will "get" Jesus onto the throne of my heart.  He comes and takes over in His time. 

But I also can't say that I fully and truly "have" Jesus and am performing His works, because I just don't see much of the fruits of the spirit in myself that Kat so beautifully laid out in her post.  Too much of the beast still rearing its ugly head...

But the joy is, that when the "week" has ended, I too will receive my Jesus in full and certainly will joyfully perform His true works, by His power and strength. 

Peace,
Diana 








 

[Kat]

Hi Diana,

That was a really good parallel, about what you have to go through to actually gain your first love.
Joseph was Rachel's son and there the parallel continues in How Leah's sons hated Joseph, because he was his father's favorite.

mercy, peace, love
Kat

[YellowStone]

Hi Joe,

I too have been giving the "Much given, much expected" parable a lot of thought. I know without question that God has graciously given me way more than I deserve.

It is so easy bracing ones demons and saying "God is looking after me, I wouldn't be here feeling this way otherwise"

I'm sure that is the same line of thought taken by the guy who buried his talent.

But it is a cop-out, for while doing so, one is no better than the ones who will cry in anguish: "Lord, Lord, didn't we do this and that....."

I am also not sure that in the process of being transformed into the image of Christ, that one is not being given the will (choice) to do or not do what is right. If this is not true, then why does my heart just ache when I know the steps I sometimes take are well and truly on the expressway of carnality. Yet, I am powerless to do anything but.

This must be what Paul was experiencing when he penned the following:

Rom 7:14  For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Rom 7:15  For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Rom 7:16  If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good. 

Rom 7:17  Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Rom 7:18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.

Rom 7:19  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Rom 7:20  Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Rom 7:21  I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

I understand that I am consenting to the sin that is me and even while I attempt to walk the road of righteousness, with God as my road and staff, evil is constantly with me.

This has been a very timely discussion and I thank you for bringing it up.

Your brother in Christ,
Darren

[rk12201960]

It is good to go back to the basics and remember from where I have come.

This thread has put me back on the right train of thought.

This is true love from brothers and sisters to this and God I yield.

Thank you all for the loving push.
Randy.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Diana

That parallel is a very good study tool to look at ourSELVES!

I was so glad when I read what you said :  But I also can't say that I fully and truly "have" Jesus

As Christ is Sovereign no one will ever "have" him as you say!

Many wrong ideas and wordy worship songs profess that we have Jesus!..or I have Jesus.... What a wrong idea! I cringe when I hear those words or recall them as being the songs I sang along to in the Mystery Babyolian days of my blindness. Just another trip to sensual land of deception not seeing or knowing the greatness of Christ and the unsurpassed authority over heaven and earth He has been given. What unthinking mere mortal has the audacity to sing and get all goose bumpy by saying, believing or even suggesting that they have Jesus! it is the other way around! He has the control not us and only the blind can get happy thinking that it is them who have got Jesus where they want Him. I am glad you are not one of them!

Joe what you say about being patient when a brother is not seeing or not getting it, is well and good if the brother is a brother or the sister is a sister. If a brother or a sister wanders off into vain arguments and discussions and purposeless talk 1 Tim 1 : 6 we are to warn and admonish and charge them not to teach any different doctrines 1 Tim 1 : 3 because there are certain individuals who have missed the mark and have wandered away. So I agree with you that we should be alert to error and wrong doctrine and be ready to correct, edify and admonish if correction and edification is rejected.
This is what I see Ray doing. He is correcting edifying and warning those who reject sound doctrine.

If we can not do amongst one another what Ray is doing in the world outside the protection of the Forum, then....what are we doing? If we see a brother or sister post an error...what are we doing but burying our knowledge of the truth and holding it back, we keep in error those who we might have been useful in saving from deception.

I am not saying that our goal should be to teach or save. That is Christs job and at His discretion He brings knowledge wisdom and understanding but it is for us to do the exercising! Don't you think?

Peace be to you

Arcturus

[Joey Porter]

Contemplating on this parable recently I began to think about how this could apply to us, are we (those who have been blessed with a clearer understanding of His purpose for humanity) putting to a good use the knowledge (treasure) He has generously provided?

Are we like the servant who buried his master's treasure (Mat 25:14 - Mat 25:30) or are we seeking to increase it by setting a good example (through Him) that draws people to wonder what is the source of our hope and joy? (1Pe 3:15)

It is also written that to whom "much is given" (Luke 12:48) "of him much shall be required" how does this relate to the way we live or speak (write) or think? It can be too easy to denigrate the churches and the people in them but how many talents have they been given? What are some of the individuals doing with the smaller amount of the treasure of His Word that has been granted them?

There are some out there doing some very selfless things based on the limited knowledge they have been given, imagine how those folk's love and committment to the Lord will increase when He opens their eyes to the things we have been blessed to receive! Remember our own joy? What are we doing presently with these talents? With this treasure?

These questions/observations have been rolling around my brain the last few days and any comments are greatly appreciated.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

I think we have to find that line between doing good works for which we were created, and running about working from the flesh, trying to accomplish things on our own efforts.  But then again, we can't use God's sovereignty as an excuse to be lazy.

I think if we just rely on the guidance of the Spirit, more and more we'll begin to find out what God's will is.

I think about the story of Mary and Martha.  That is one of the most clear examples of separating those who are called from those who are chosen.  Remember at the house, Mary was sitting at Jesus' feet, just listening to what He was saying.  Meanwhile, Martha was running around doing all kinds of works. And also remember, Jesus told Martha that Mary chose what was better.

Then, we also remember when the Lord was coming to raise Lazarus from the dead.   When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went out to meet Him, but Mary stayed at home.  Then after Mary heard that Jesus called for her, she went.  I am certain these details were added to the story to show us how we are to be patient and let Him lead us, so that we don't get ahead of ourselves and slowly start going astray.

[DuluthGA]

Hi Joe and all...

Great thoughts from Arcturus and GMick, and a great set of verses [for which I am especially thankful  ] to Darren.  Also, FABULOUS verses and thoughts from Diana, especially (paraphrasing) these two:

'It's really a shock to wake up realizing that you have not been worshipping your first love.'  and...

'I know there are no works I can do that will get Jesus onto the throne of my heart.  He comes and takes over in His time.'

[And, I STILL AM A BIT OF A BEASTIE TOO, Diana, rats!   ]

To address Joe's initial inquiry, what am I doing about it? 

Well YES Joe, I VIVIDLY remember my first joy and I want to share it!!!

And yes Joe, much has been given to me and of course, I want to share it!!!

So what I'm doing, although I know from reading Ray's paper on "Winning Souls for Jesus" that I really do not have to do a darned thing, is a little advertising for the BT website wherever I go in the form of simple labels as well as laminated picture labels with the website on them.  God has put this in my heart, and it makes me feel an active part of the whole picture.   

Thanks for this topic!

Much Joy, Caregiver

[hillsbororiver]

Joe what you say about being patient when a brother is not seeing or not getting it, is well and good if the brother is a brother or the sister is a sister. If a brother or a sister wanders off into vain arguments and discussions and purposeless talk 1 Tim 1 : 6 we are to warn and admonish and charge them not to teach any different doctrines 1 Tim 1 : 3 because there are certain individuals who have missed the mark and have wandered away. So I agree with you that we should be alert to error and wrong doctrine and be ready to correct, edify and admonish if correction and edification is rejected.
This is what I see Ray doing. He is correcting edifying and warning those who reject sound doctrine.

Hi Arcturus,

I addressed this earlier in the thread when I wrote;

....we have to have a balance, if we are telling ourselves that we are in the race for election into the first resurrection then we really need to consider how we as individuals interact with our sisters and brothers.

Not only interact but how we think of them, what we say about them, if we have a God given understanding of His Word they have yet to be given we should be approaching them with patience and longsuffering, this is not to say that heretical doctrine should be tolerated but that unless someone is strident and divisive we should have empathy as we ourselves could have been where they are, we haven't done a thing in being dragged to His Truth & purpose for us.

If we are holding the Spirit of Christ deep in our hearts then manifesting the fruits of His Spirit (even in baby steps) should be the next logical (spiritually speaking) move toward the finish line.

Gal 6:10  As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

1Th 5:14  Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[hillsbororiver]

Hello Everyone,

I truly appreciate all of your input, many good things to contemplate.

My point here is not to say we need to pack a lunch and trudge into the dark and dangerous alleys to preach, teach and boldly proclaim "the message." No, the point was that if we are growing in Christ the progression to manifesting the fruits of the spirit should become evident not only to those we are close to but everyone we come into contact with. These "works" can be an encouraging word to someone having a bad time of it, a helping hand to someone in need, a phone call to a lonely or hurting soul, a hospital visit to the sick, a letter written to someone in prison, the list goes on and on. It is also good fruit to give a timely admonishment with patience and longsuffering for we are not doing His work if and when we let a brother or sister continue in some sort of error as if it is a good thing. 

Mat 7:16  Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Mat 7:17  Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

Mat 7:18  A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Mat 7:19  Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire.

Mat 7:20  Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

I had been thinking about this stuff the last few days in regard to my own place in this journey with our Lord and how my own heart views those around me as I interact with the people I come into contact with, not only what I might say or do but the thoughts that I entertain as well. I realize that I need to diligently pray continuously for His Spirit to not only comfort me but to be a conduit of hope, comfort and peace (through His Spirit) to others and to purge my mind of the carnal thoughts that can so easily overtake my consciousness.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[Kat]

Hi Joe,

I agree with you completely.
We do feel we should desire to do all those things you mentioned.  But for it to be exceptable to God, our heart has to be in it.

Rom 6:17  But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed,
v. 18  and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.

1Pe 1:22  Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere love of the brethren, love one another earnestly from the heart.
v. 23  You have been born anew, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;

It kind of reminds me of two people dating, and always putting forth their best manners.  If they should marry, that is when the true test begins and they see each other as they truely are.
But we can not fool God.

1Sam 16:7 "... for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

Eze 11:19  Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh,
v. 20  that they may walk in My statutes and keep My judgments and do them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat